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Retron
21 December 2015 17:45:36

Some absolutely fascinating output in the 12z GEFS - something's definitely brewing, but whether it leads to cold weather for us is still very much up in the air.


A couple of the most noteworthy charts:


The highest pressure I've ever seen modelled over Scandinavia. It's worth mentioning that more than a few of the runs bring a 1050hPa isobar in the same general area:



and not far off a record for the UK on this one (the record is just under 1055hPa IIRC):



Leysdown, north Kent
Shropshire
21 December 2015 17:51:14

Retron, didn't you say something was brewing weeks ago only for nothing to change ?


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Retron
21 December 2015 17:53:51


Retron, didn't you say something was brewing weeks ago only for nothing to change ?


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


You weren't paying attention.


I said something was brewing and indeed we had an attempt at a pattern change; in the end the amplitude of the Atlantic ridge wasn't enough to effect a permanent change, but it did at least give a few days' respite from wind and rain.


This one has stronger support in the models, take that as you will.


EDIT: And here's a reminder showing the attempted pattern change.



Leysdown, north Kent
Stormchaser
21 December 2015 17:54:40

Certainly a bit more of a 'wobbling on the wall' feel to the 12z GFS and GEFS which makes the game more interesting again after the sense of unbeatable zonality that seemed to be brewing this morning.


JFF but the size of the block across Asia at the end of the GFS 12z op is something to behold:


No chart available for the selected hour. Many charts start at 3 hours ahead, so if you have 0 hours selected try stepping forward or selecting a later hour.


Rawr!


Working in combination with blocking across the U.S. it does show the potential for a pincer move on the vortex. 


Generating a 1hpa level temperature map for the GFS 12z at +384 shows a messy picture but with the effects of that blocking across Asia very much apparent. Just needs a SSW to kick off! 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Gooner
21 December 2015 17:58:23


 


You weren't paying attention.


I said something was brewing and indeed we had an attempt at a pattern change; in the end the amplitude of the Atlantic ridge wasn't enough to effect a permanent change, but it did at least give a few days' respite from wind and rain.


This one has stronger support in the models, take that as you will.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


A calm response from yourself Darren


Yes your right , it did slow down the onslaught of the wet stuff. Hopefully we will get 'that' change that many of us crave


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Retron
21 December 2015 18:02:25


Generating a 1hpa level temperature map for the GFS 12z at +384 shows a messy picture but with the effects of that blocking across Asia very much apparent. Just needs a SSW to kick off! 


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Looking much closer to now, I'm struck by how closely this:


http://www.instantweathermaps.com/GFS-php/showmap-strat.php?run=2015122112&var=TMP&lev=1mb&hour=048


represents what was being shown two weeks ago. My thoughts are that predictions regarding major changes in the stratosphere are much less susceptible to failure than the lower layers of the atmopshere - although as we still don't know the exact effects that warming will have it's hard to pin down effects lower in the atmosphere.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
moomin75
21 December 2015 18:16:18


All in all an encouraging 12z GFS run with an impressive build in pressure over NE Scandinavia with an Arctic extension. There is favourable WAA to a decent latitude again tonight that is pleasing to see. The atlantic is a powerhouse though and keeps potential out to our east meaning the UK stays unsettled and mild throughout. Another good effort though and the sort of evolution that could easily be added to the 'where did that easterly come from' archives. .


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 

Indeed Steve. Continuing the trend from the last few 12z's as I intimated yesterday. Interesting experiment this and will be interested in the results and how close to verifying they are.


The12z's in the lead up to this exceptional mild spell have certainly verified excellently. 


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
David M Porter
21 December 2015 18:28:51


Indeed Steve. Continuing the trend from the last few 12z's as I intimated yesterday. Interesting experiment this and will be interested in the results and how close to verifying they are.


The12z's in the lead up to this exceptional mild spell have certainly verified excellently. 


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Quick question for you Kieren: In you view, having followed the model output for quite a while I imagine, have the 12z runs from the models generally tended to prove more accurate that runs from other times of the day over a long period of time? It would be interesting to hear your views on that given what you have said about the 12z runs earlier on the month predicting the excpetional mildness of the second half of last week.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
roger63
21 December 2015 19:12:41

Lets hope the 12h GFS is the more accurate>the GEFS compared to the 06h a swings back to more blocked.


Meanwhile ECM stays resolutely mild -but haven't yet seen the ENS.

Polar Low
21 December 2015 19:22:12

Good grief we dont need that and look at ecm 850 temp gradients that means one thing very unsettled for sure


 




 

Polar Low
21 December 2015 19:26:22

Look at the power there just too much 


Polar Low
21 December 2015 19:32:40
Polar Low
21 December 2015 19:40:53

Latest from wpc for xmas period


MODELS AND ENSEMBLES STILL SHOW GOOD AGREEMENT ON THE FORECAST
THROUGH ABOUT FRI/SAT THIS WEEK BEFORE THINGS GET MORE
INTERESTING. STRONG RIDGING ALONG THE EAST COAST AND WESTERN
ATLANTIC WILL GET SQUASHED TO THE SOUTH AS AN UPPER LEVEL TROUGH
DIGS THROUGH THE INTERIOR WEST FRI-SAT. THEREAFTER, THE MODELS AND
ENSEMBLES SEEM TO HAVE FINALLY CONVERGED TOWARD FORMING A CLOSED
LOW BY SATURDAY NEAR THE FOUR CORNERS REGION AND SLIDE IT EASTWARD
AND NORTHEASTWARD THEREAFTER. PREVIOUS MODEL/ENSEMBLE RUNS SHOWED
ANYTHING FROM A COMPLETELY CUTOFF LOW GETTING STUCK IN NORTHERN
MEXICO SAT-MON TO A PROGRESSIVE TROUGH LIFTING INTO SOUTHEASTERN
CANADA. WITH SUCH MIXED SIGNALS, HAD TO RELY ON THE RATHER WASHED
OUT ENSEMBLE MEANS UNTIL THE 00Z GUIDANCE TILTED THE SCALE TOWARD
THIS MORE AMPLIFIED, BUT NOT COMPLETELY CUTOFF, SOLUTION. THIS
RESULTS IN MUCH MORE NORTHERN STREAM ENERGY TO PUSH INTO NEW
ENGLAND SUN/MON THAN PREVIOUSLY ADVERTISED.

A BLEND OF THE RECENT 00Z/06Z GUIDANCE THROUGH SAT STILL SEEMED
REASONABLE, WITH THE UKMET/CANADIAN ON THE SLOWEST SIDE WITH THE
CLOSING OFF UPPER LOW -- NOT IMPOSSIBLE, BUT AM NOT WILLING TO BE
THAT SLOW RIGHT NOW. FOR SUN/MON, THE ENSEMBLE MEANS EJECT THE
CLOSED LOW AT DIFFERENT SPEEDS, BUT PREFER TO BE SLOWER RATHER
THAN QUICKER. 00Z/06Z GFS RUNS WERE CLOSE ENOUGH TO THIS SLOWER
PREFERENCE SO THAT THEY WERE USED TO ADD SOME DETAIL TO THE
INITIAL BLEND. ECMWF WAS ON THE SOUTHERN SIDE OF THE SPREAD AND
QUITE A BIT DISPLACED FROM THE MAJORITY GEFS/ECENS ENSEMBLE
CLUSTERING.

 

Polar Low
21 December 2015 19:48:10

Looks like its turning out  like a omega block in the wrong place if you ask me jet will just ride over the top


Solar Cycles
21 December 2015 20:06:13


Brian will love some of these charts


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0&carte=0


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 

I know a certain Melanie who will be.

moomin75
21 December 2015 20:34:57


 


Quick question for you Kieren: In you view, having followed the model output for quite a while I imagine, have the 12z runs from the models generally tended to prove more accurate that runs from other times of the day over a long period of time? It would be interesting to hear your views on that given what you have said about the 12z runs earlier on the month predicting the excpetional mildness of the second half of last week.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


HI David.


I don't have verification stats to hand at the moment but can try and produce something...though not sure how.


I started looking solely at12z's at the beginning of November and my inference is that they appear to be verifying successfully a high percentage of the time.


How I would look at verification is general conditions and temperatures pronged vs Actual Conditions. 


I don't yet have enough stats to hand to say it's an exact science but based on what was progged on each specific day in November I would say verification is over 50% at a ten day range which is quite exceptional in my view.


I am off for a few days so will do some reanalysis of actual conditions v what models were showing at a 10 day range and try and come up with a more precise figure.


This could just be a quirk of fate with GFS due to the fact it was going for exceptional mildness for a number of weeks.


It would be more interesting to see how the current 12z charts verify 10 days hence. Sadly as you know I won't be in the country in January so could be difficult to carry on my experiment after 30th December.  But I will try.  ☺


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Girthmeister
nsrobins
21 December 2015 21:46:53

Back in the short term, Thursday afternoon looks pretty lively down south:

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm/runs/2015122112/nmm-11-75-0.png?21-17

http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2015122112/75-289UK.GIF?21-12

Originally Posted by: Girthmeister 


Xmas Eve has looked potentially lively for some days now so no surprise if it actually turns out that way.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
David M Porter
21 December 2015 21:47:20


 


HI David.


I don't have verification stats to hand at the moment but can try and produce something...though not sure how.


I started looking solely at12z's at the beginning of November and my inference is that they appear to be verifying successfully a high percentage of the time.


How I would look at verification is general conditions and temperatures pronged vs Actual Conditions. 


I don't yet have enough stats to hand to say it's an exact science but based on what was progged on each specific day in November I would say verification is over 50% at a ten day range which is quite exceptional in my view.


I am off for a few days so will do some reanalysis of actual conditions v what models were showing at a 10 day range and try and come up with a more precise figure.


This could just be a quirk of fate with GFS due to the fact it was going for exceptional mildness for a number of weeks.


It would be more interesting to see how the current 12z charts verify 10 days hence. Sadly as you know I won't be in the country in January so could be difficult to carry on my experiment after 30th December.  But I will try.  ☺


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Cheers Kieren.


I've noticed that one or two GFS 12z op runs in the past few days have been tinkering with the idea of raising heights to our NE as we go into January; yesterday's 12z made a pretty good attempt at it. Even in the ECM op runs there has been a tendency of some kind to try and build heights over Europe further north towards Scandi, rather than having HP located right over central & southern Europe. It may mean nothing at the end of the day, but we can but hope that they build on this theme in the coming days in the same way as they did last month with the exceptional mild spell we've had in recent days.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Zubzero
21 December 2015 22:18:19

Now http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2015122112/ECM1-0.GIF?21-0 
10 days later http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2015122112/ECM1-240.GIF?21-0 

I thought last Winter was bad but this top's it by far for the level of unrelenting borefest.

Might get a ground frost in the next few week's


 


http://modeles7.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2015122112/graphe6_1000_275_97___.gif 

When will it end?

Maunder Minimum
21 December 2015 22:28:01

18z out to t+180 - looks odd:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015122118/gfsnh-0-180.png?18


But then that is the pub run.


Trying its best to give us a Beast:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015122118/gfsnh-0-216.png?18?18


 


New world order coming.
Rob K
21 December 2015 23:00:18
1,000mb pressure difference across a little over 1,000 miles!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1921.gif 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Chiltern Blizzard
21 December 2015 23:34:10

1,000mb pressure difference across a little over 1,000 miles!

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1921.gif


1,000mb difference!?!  Not unless you're traveling vertically!... Seriously though, the 100mb difference is impressive!


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Fothergill
21 December 2015 23:40:50

P18 in GEFS gives the mother of all Beasts, -24 uppers knocking on Kent's door...



Ally Pally Snowman
21 December 2015 23:43:18


P18 in GEFS gives the mother of all Beasts, -24 uppers knocking on Kent's door...




Originally Posted by: Fothergill 


One day a chart like this will happen one day.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.

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