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Shropshire
24 December 2015 16:38:32

The set-up that the GFS shows is always fascinating, perhaps data issues with it being Christmas time ? 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
Brian Gaze
24 December 2015 16:41:01

The GFS12z is missing some data today but whether that has an impact or not is always hotly debated. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Whether Idle
24 December 2015 16:41:08


The set-up that the GFS shows is always fascinating, perhaps data issues with it being Christmas time ? 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 


Perhaps not.  Enjoy the output.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
24 December 2015 16:45:23


Cold weather finally gets here , be an amazing turnaround if this verified ,  seeing as Shropshire is so dosappointed with the mild weather Im very surprised he isnt ramping this up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
24 December 2015 16:46:30

 Gfs P got pretty close to snow feast earlier today so we cant discount this sort of setup  just yet it does seem strange that gm has dropped it



 

Gooner
24 December 2015 16:49:02


The GFS12z is missing some data today but whether that has an impact or not is always hotly debated. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



Someone go get Darren


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gandalf The White
24 December 2015 16:53:18


The GFS12z is missing some data today but whether that has an impact or not is always hotly debated. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Spoilsport!


Actually, just to get things into perspective, it's worth remembering that ALL models have missing data at T+0 because there are more datapoints than actual data, hence the extensive use of ensembles to test how robust the evolution may be.


Anyway, missing data should be as likely to throw up any number of synoptic patterns offering a complete spread of options for our tiny speck on the global stage;  because it delivers up a Scandi block cannot of itself mean it's wrong or due to some missing data?


Anyway, back to the GFS 12z; the block doesn't quite deliver this time but is this a trend towards a westerly drift of the battleground or a blip?


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


squish
24 December 2015 16:55:06
January '79 springs to mind.....
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
David M Porter
24 December 2015 17:06:04


 


Spoilsport!


Actually, just to get things into perspective, it's worth remembering that ALL models have missing data at T+0 because there are more datapoints than actual data, hence the extensive use of ensembles to test how robust the evolution may be.


Anyway, missing data should be as likely to throw up any number of synoptic patterns offering a complete spread of options for our tiny speck on the global stage;  because it delivers up a Scandi block cannot of itself mean it's wrong or due to some missing data?


Anyway, back to the GFS 12z; the block doesn't quite deliver this time but is this a trend towards a westerly drift of the battleground or a blip?


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Hi Peter,


Going back to the issues about possible missing data, I had thought this was more likely to be the case on holidays such as tomorrow, Boxing Day and New Year's Day. Today is a normal working day as far as I know.


I can quite clearly remember following the model output and this thread during Xmas 2012, when we had a very similar weather pattern to what we have currently. There were a few model operational runs during that time which showed a change to something colder and drier in early Jan 2013, and some people were saying "Don't trust these runs; there is likely to be data missing because it's Xmas". At the time I shared the same concerns, but once the festive season had passed and the models persisted with showing a change, I was more confident that something was afoot. I can't honestly remember what the MetO's thoughts were at that time though for the start of 2013.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Polar Low
24 December 2015 17:08:06

Good to see you posting Peter 



 


Spoilsport!


Actually, just to get things into perspective, it's worth remembering that ALL models have missing data at T+0 because there are more datapoints than actual data, hence the extensive use of ensembles to test how robust the evolution may be.


Anyway, missing data should be as likely to throw up any number of synoptic patterns offering a complete spread of options for our tiny speck on the global stage;  because it delivers up a Scandi block cannot of itself mean it's wrong or due to some missing data?


Anyway, back to the GFS 12z; the block doesn't quite deliver this time but is this a trend towards a westerly drift of the battleground or a blip?


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Brian Gaze
24 December 2015 17:10:54


 


Hi Peter,


Going back to the issues about possible missing data, I had thought this was more likely to be the case on holidays such as tomorrow, Boxing Day and New Year's Day. Today is a normal working day as far as I know.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Today's GFS12z is missing some radiosonde upper air data but I've seen this happen quite frequently through the course of the year. IMO this doesn't demonstrably make much difference to the output and accuracy. The thing to do is look at the GEFS12z postage stamps and see whether the synoptic patterns are broadly similar to the 6z set. 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Charmhills
24 December 2015 17:12:54


The GFS12z is missing some data today but whether that has an impact or not is always hotly debated. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


So the GFS is faulty like YD used to say.



Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Polar Low
24 December 2015 17:17:56

Perhaps a few more Brian than last night at 144


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_panel.php?modele=0&mode=1&ech=144


 


 



 


Today's GFS12z is missing some radiosonde upper air data but I've seen this happen quite frequently through the course of the year. IMO this doesn't demonstrably make much difference to the output and accuracy. The thing to do is look at the GEFS12z postage stamps and see whether the synoptic patterns are broadly similar to the 6z set. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Quantum
24 December 2015 17:20:12

OK this is interesting, please let this be a trend 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
squish
24 December 2015 17:20:19
GFS operational not unsupported in the ensembles, although not unanimous by any means....
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Gooner
24 December 2015 17:25:26


Control also hinting at an Easterly ..............doesn't quite make it this time


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


pdiddy
24 December 2015 17:26:14

roughly 6 out of 20 GEFS have the same evolution as the Op on the 12z.  All eyes on ECM now!

squish
24 December 2015 17:27:21

London short ensembles 12z...


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
White Meadows
24 December 2015 17:32:55


 


Today's GFS12z is missing some radiosonde upper air data but I've seen this happen quite frequently through the course of the year. IMO this doesn't demonstrably make much difference to the output and accuracy. The thing to do is look at the GEFS12z postage stamps and see whether the synoptic patterns are broadly similar to the 6z set. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Agreed...


So not worth thinking about the missing data drama some go on about every Boxing Day. 

Whether Idle
24 December 2015 17:40:16


roughly 6 out of 20 GEFS have the same evolution as the Op on the 12z.  All eyes on ECM now!


Originally Posted by: pdiddy 


Agreed, around 33%.  A growing trend? Makes for a bit of festive fun and makes a change from Bartletization and record highs, even if its all just FI musings.


EDIT Met O 144 ...ouch...



 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Chichesterweatherfan2
24 December 2015 17:43:24
Sorry to be off topic, but have seen mention of YD..what happened to him or her?
Ally Pally Snowman
24 December 2015 17:52:18

Just seen the GFS and did not expect that at all can the ECM join the Christmas party?


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
24 December 2015 17:54:44

Sorry to be off topic, but have seen mention of YD..what happened to him or her?

Originally Posted by: Chichesterweatherfan2 


 


Think he got banned a couple of years ago for some reason shame as was a TWO legend . Speaking of TWO legends what ever happened to Matty H?


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Brian Gaze
24 December 2015 18:04:16

That puts the cat among the pigeons. Happy Xmas!



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Quantum
24 December 2015 18:05:49

Okay so basically we have about a 20% probability of this actually coming off. Not a lot to hope for, but better odds than we have been used to seeing! Anyway I'm sure with the continued erosion of the polar vortex, more opportunities like this will come along even if it doesn't work out this time. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.

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