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Stormchaser
22 January 2016 23:10:20
Thanks for the kind comments everyone :)

And thanks Brian r.e. Strat charts, I look forward to spending even more time with the TWO chart viewer :D


The GFS 18z op had made some progress toward the theoretical progression. Got to start somewhere!

I just hope the SSW doesn't turn out to be an unhelpful displacement just as the pattern is starting to take on that cold pattern I have spoken of.
In that respect its a very good thing that a split is the emerging favourite. Long may that trend continue!
If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
David M Porter
22 January 2016 23:16:29


[sighs]


Just when I was thinking it was safe to stop scrutinising this thread & model output, a carrot is dangled by James (excellent read as always).


I think I'd rather have a winter of unremitting Bartlett than one that constantly teases.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


We had a major tease from the models for a couple of days a fortnight ago which sort of came off, although we didn't get the strong height rises over the Greenland region that GFS and ECM in a few op runs had toyed with. Even though January will not go down as a classic for cold weather by any means, it has given us more of it than the pathetic month that was December ever came close to doing.


As I said this morning, we could by the end of January be seeing model runs that look rather better for cold fans, or maybe not. What doesn't seem to be in the offing as far as I can tell is a return to December's disastrous pattern, and thank goodness!


 


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Sinky1970
22 January 2016 23:22:24
The latest GFS output are hardly what anybody would call "wintry", they appear like what with the rapid movement, what you would expect in early spring, say in March for example.
Quantum
22 January 2016 23:25:38

Why was the 18Z better? Let's take a look at the bigger picture at 234 hours (no prev button on NW for 240). 12Z left, 18Z right. 


Netweather GFS ImageNetweather GFS Image


 


Note how the jet buckles in alaska sending warm air torpedoing into the arctic and ultimately raising heights across greenland. Pale blues do wonders for us as opposed to dark blues and actually allow us a full on arctic feed (albeit from the north west). If this trend continues then things could improve quite rapidally. I consider the 552 line over Greenland to be the holy grail but even if we get the pale greens then there could be some degree of communication between alaska and the midatlantic via the arctic encouraging the azors high to relocate west. One to watch, note the low heights over scandanavia will help to facilitate such a process. 


I haven't posted in here in a few days because I couldn't find any optimism in the charts at all; finally I've found it.


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Stormchaser
22 January 2016 23:36:04


Why was the 18Z better? Let's take a look at the bigger picture at 234 hours (no prev button on NW for 240). 12Z left, 18Z right. 


Netweather GFS ImageNetweather GFS Image


 


Note how the jet buckles in alaska sending warm air torpedoing into the arctic and ultimately raising heights across greenland. Pale blues do wonders for us as opposed to dark blues and actually allow us a full on arctic feed (albeit from the north west). If this trend continues then things could improve quite rapidally. I consider the 552 line over Greenland to be the holy grail but even if we get the pale greens then there could be some degree of communication between alaska and the midatlantic via the arctic encouraging the azors high to relocate west. One to watch, note the low heights over scandanavia will help to facilitate such a process. 


I haven't posted in here in a few days because I couldn't find any optimism in the charts at all; finally I've found it.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Good post Q 


As GFS smells the coffee with respect to the tropical forcing, it should sharpen up the U.S. amplification and consequentially tend to have the Atlantic pattern a little further west (not much at all) and considerably better defined in terms of a mid-Atlantic ridge and Sceuro trough.


This may not happen smoothly though. Yet I believe it won't be too long now before lower-res GFS is showing us some tantalising charts... which, if things follow a typical path, will prove to be too simplistic, hence quick, with the actual path a bit slower but still getting there in the end.


Yeah, I've been through too many winters to be as much fun as I once was 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Quantum
22 January 2016 23:38:12

12Z ECM ensembles are very interesting. Since I'm not a met employer I can't see them, but I can infer there are some really bloody cold ones even before February.


Temp. 850 hPa ECMWFTS Sa 23.01.2016 12 GMT


Note the downward trend in the 850s even getting to about -5C by the 1st. However what is more interesting is the standard deviation. Weatheronline also provides a table which gives the standard deviation at the end of the run at about 3.7C and a mean of -5.1C. Now I'm going to assume guassian statistics here because a) I really have no choice given the limited information and b) random variables obey it anyway. 


Assuming the ECM has 50 ensembles (I think it does right?). At the end of the run for London:


25 are below -5C


5 are below -10C


1 is below -13C


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Stormchaser
23 January 2016 00:13:39


12Z ECM ensembles are very interesting. Since I'm not a met employer I can't see them, but I can infer there are some really bloody cold ones even before February.


Temp. 850 hPa ECMWFTS Sa 23.01.2016 12 GMT


Note the downward trend in the 850s even getting to about -5C by the 1st. However what is more interesting is the standard deviation. Weatheronline also provides a table which gives the standard deviation at the end of the run at about 3.7C and a mean of -5.1C. Now I'm going to assume guassian statistics here because a) I really have no choice given the limited information and b) random variables obey it anyway. 


Assuming the ECM has 50 ensembles (I think it does right?). At the end of the run for London:


25 are below -5C


5 are below -10C


1 is below -13C


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I wonder where they source their data; the mean they give certainly doesn't match what can be seen on the Meteociel version of the day 10 mean chart, which has always seemed reliably correct to me in times past:



You can, however, see the marked changes afoot when looking at the mean 500 hpa heights:



The main vortex lobe on our side of the hemisphere has moved to our NE and it's a case of sorting out that residual area over Canada while watching the Azores High weaken and shift further west ready to ridge north toward Greenland.


I imagine that differences in timing between the runs mean that there are enough with the vortex still on its way over to counteract any that have the ridge building by day 10. 


Actually I can check this using the spreads:



Okay, so not a vast spread in that region but with the low heights not that pronounced there on the mean, that still makes the difference between a ridge and a trough. No runs going for a particularly strong ridge at that time though, let alone blocking high over Greenland.


But then, it's only 1st Feb we're looking at here - so it would be a remarkably fast evolution to get us that far that soon!


 


Time to get some sleep and let the 00z runs come around. How much longer until the first of the epic, overly keen runs that usually appear ahead of a pattern change? 


 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Edicius81
23 January 2016 00:26:24




Or, indeed, looking at the astronomical winter, rather than the meteorological one .....    Not that I think El Nino takes any notice of either!

A good chance that the first half of March ('Spring') could be somewhat colder than the first half of December ('Winter').


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Almost certain that all of March will be somewhat colder than all of December... Yup December was that extreme. 

SEMerc
23 January 2016 01:39:38
Thank you for posting such a disgusting series of charts.
AIMSIR
23 January 2016 03:14:18

This just about sums it up.


.


THE HORROR 1080p - YouTube




 


 

Nordic Snowman
23 January 2016 06:28:04

No real changes in the reliable frame up to 144.


Haven't checked GFS beyond that range yet but GEM at 192:



It then keeps the same theme out to 240.



At 240:



From a personal POV, this is the best set up. Higher heights over Iberia with a flatter pattern keeps away the mildest of the warm sectors.


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Nordic Snowman
23 January 2016 06:50:11

The people of Bergen will now be getting their annual flooding issues:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Bergen_ens.png


The higher parts/mountains of Hordaland will easily achieve several hundred cms of snow over the next 10 days if the current output verifies.


Sorry for talking about Norway but I can't think of any positives for much of the UK atm. That said, I do think the Scottish ski slopes will be getting some action too  


 


Bjorli, Norway

Website 
Whether Idle
23 January 2016 07:05:52


This just about sums it up.


.


THE HORROR 1080p - YouTube




 


 


Originally Posted by: AIMSIR 


Still apt after the 0z...


None of these will be required on this side of the pond.... ...(at least in England, maybe in Norway though...)



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
JACKO4EVER
23 January 2016 07:30:08
Morning all.
Much as we were really, looks like a bit of a locked pattern atm so patience is required in the waiting game if it's cold your after. The AZ high pressure Looks to be on the move to the Iberian peninsula, the jet overriding and crashing through into Europe- this could be a protracted wait.
Let's hope the high ridges north a little giving us some useable weather for the south at least.
Brian Gaze
23 January 2016 07:42:49

Still looking very non descript this morning. Think it's also worth highlighting how the cold block we we were talking about last week is expected to quickly erode and be shunted eastwards. It's not even as though we're on the edge of the cold and a shift rather than a tweak is needed for winter to return to the UK.



 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Bertwhistle
23 January 2016 08:15:40

Could we be looking at more date records as we go into February?


 


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/gfs/00_231_mslp850.png?cb=207


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Whether Idle
23 January 2016 08:17:53


Could we be looking at more date records as we go into February?


 


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/gfs/00_231_mslp850.png?cb=207


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


Holy Bartlett! Would provide useable weather


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Brian Gaze
23 January 2016 08:28:36


Could we be looking at more date records as we go into February?


 


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/chart.aspx?chart=/charts/gfs/00_231_mslp850.png?cb=207


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


Indeed. I'm surprised how quickly the TV forecasters (Met?) seem to have discounted the possibility of a return to December's exceptionally mild weather.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
doctormog
23 January 2016 08:41:12
I'm still watching the stratospheric warming, not so much out of expectation for wintry weather but if curiosity re. what effects if any it will have on our weather in the UK. There is no strong signal for anything wintry at the moment and the warming is due in a couple of days or so:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/black-usb-wireless-touchscreen-weather-centre-n96gy 

David M Porter
23 January 2016 08:47:31


 


Indeed. I'm surprised how quickly the TV forecasters (Met?) seem to have discounted the possibility of a return to December's exceptionally mild weather.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I think what they seem to be discounting is the chance of another extended spell of very mild weather, like we saw throughout December. That isn't to say we won't get days as mild as we saw that month again in the near future, but as far as I can tell, they seem to believe that another protracted very mild spell is unlikely.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
NickR
23 January 2016 08:50:36
Closing this one... hold fire.
Nick
Durham
[email protected]

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