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Gandalf The White
03 December 2017 20:13:26


Country file forecast not much detail on any snow but coastal showers mentioned and middle spine of country largely dry.Temps around 3-5c.S eems a bit of a downgrade compared to what GFS charts  are suggesting.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


Don't forget that rather annoying habit they have of showing temperatures in the major cities.  Out in the other 95% of the land area it will be typically at least a degree lower and in the case of London probably 2-3 degrees lower.


At least when they're discussing overnight minima they do show rural/countryside vallues but they don't bother with daytime maxima.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


doctormog
03 December 2017 20:17:12


 


True for GFS but definitely not for ECM. The "precip type" charts linked above showed "mixed rain and snow" at best for all in England except the highest hills of Yorkshire. 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


WI was, as far as I can see, referring to prone northern areas generally. If this is a snow over 1000ft only scenario I still have a lot to learn. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_120_1.png 


Here for example 500-1000hPa are sub 520dam and that is the case for a swathe of the country. I understand caution but when psychology starts to trump real analysis I am less convinced. 


Gandalf The White
03 December 2017 20:20:54


 


The professionals know their onions.  NWly, classically dry for the majority.  Wintry showers in prone areas, snow above 1000 feet. Cold couple of days then gradually less cold with risk of rain, snow on northern hills.  Typical winter fayre.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Here's the Friday 0600 chart - freezing level around 1,000 feet for all but western and coastal areas.   It is a physical impossibility for it not to snow below 1,000 feet.



When you take into account the surface temperature I would suggest there's limited scope for any snow to turn to rain.  Obviously intensity can be a factor but I would be amazed if this set-up didn't deliver a wintry mix at the least.



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


JACKO4EVER
03 December 2017 20:36:01
All typical winter fayre, no dramas. A better start to winter if it's cold your after than the last few years for sure.
Solar Cycles
03 December 2017 20:42:28

Some weird post creeping in it has to be said, maybe I’ve missed the last 50 years in which Decembers always brings some big snow events and bone chilling cold every year, otherwise this projected cold spell does look like a cool blip compared to previous Decembers.🤪

White Meadows
03 December 2017 20:44:22

All typical winter fayre, no dramas. A better start to winter if it's cold your after than the last few years for sure.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 

Not typical for the Modern winter though Jason.

Polar Low
03 December 2017 21:04:02

you have to say some of those gfs members look promising for wintry potential just before mid month


http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_panel.php?modele=0&mode=1&ech=180


 


Gandalf The White
03 December 2017 21:07:15

All typical winter fayre, no dramas. A better start to winter if it's cold your after than the last few years for sure.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


With that usage of English I have to assume that you're baseline is a Dickensian winter....



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


johncs2016
03 December 2017 21:28:51


I'm still struggling to see why the charts are showing lows "sliding" to the southeast when there is no block (either surface or upper) to the east to stop them heading on their usual track. What is steering the jet in the absence of a block?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


I think that the main factor here might just be the blocking high to our west that has been coming and going recently and which as has been said before, is largely helped by a lack of any high pressure to our south. This would result in a north to south pattern of the jet stream which could work in one or two ways since we could either be on the western side of that block with the jet stream running northwards (which would result in us getting some really mild air coming up from the south), or we could be on the eastern side of that block with the jet stream then running back southwards and resulting in us getting cold northerly winds from the Arctic. So far, we have been lucky enough to be on that eastern side of the block with the jet stream running from north to south.


Generally, weather systems upon following the route of that jet stream around that block with then be diverted northwards on the western side of the block which in this case, would probably be just off the American seaboard. Those weather systems would then move around the top of that high pressure and thus approach us from the north-west before diving southwards across the country as it continues to follow the jet stream.


Basically, these weather systems are effectively just returning to their original latitudes and whilst crossing the UK, they might bring slightly less cold air for a time with cold northerly winds then coming in behind then. If there is also some high pressure to our south though, that would stop those weather systems from being able to get back south but if that high pressure isn't there, these weather systems can return south more freely and I don't think that this would require any further blocking to our east or north-east in order for that to happen.


The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
Shropshire
03 December 2017 21:42:25


 


I’ve lived here long enough to know that a setup like this would deliver snow to inland areas, even if it isn’t very much. I appreciate it won’t necessarily snow in your area.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_114_1.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU12_114_2.png


Without intending to sound arrogant I’m not sure why anyone would expect the Countryfile forecast to say anything different about a northerly flow at that range. “Wintry showers on the coast” is the obvious phrase. 


And I’m also not suggested that the above charts won’t change. They might. 


Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 


 


Yes I know what those charts mean for here. 


From December 27th 2020, zonality will be banned from mixing with the UK. We appreciate that this may come as a shock to younger people and old Uncle Barty. This ban will last for a minimum of ten days.
The Beast from the East
03 December 2017 22:00:29
Ben Rich in the bbc extended not very encouraging. Turning less cold and rain. This is looking like another non event
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
03 December 2017 22:00:56

OT the Beeb going for NW sliders with the risk of rain or snow 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Solar Cycles
03 December 2017 22:02:04

Ben Rich in the bbc extended not very encouraging. Turning less cold and rain. This is looking like another non event

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

You must’ve switched off at Thursday. 😉

Gooner
03 December 2017 22:02:06

Ben Rich in the bbc extended not very encouraging. Turning less cold and rain. This is looking like another non event

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


Now that’s not what he said ...don’t spoil a good story  with the facts 


 


He said rain or snow as cold air is always close by 


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


bowser
03 December 2017 22:02:19

Ben Rich in the bbc extended not very encouraging. Turning less cold and rain. This is looking like another non event

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


i saw it too but you are cherry picking the negatives. 

Solar Cycles
03 December 2017 22:03:13


OT the Beeb going for NW sliders with the risk of rain or snow 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Its looking likely to be a nightmare to forecasts with the boundary lines between rain and snow being very marginal. 

Karl Guille
03 December 2017 22:05:15
High pressure in the Atlantic holding on a little more robustly on the 18z!
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2017120318/gfs-0-126.png?18 
St. Sampson
Guernsey
SEMerc
03 December 2017 22:05:32


 


i saw it too but you are cherry picking the negatives. 


Originally Posted by: bowser 


Fake news?

squish
03 December 2017 22:07:30
Too much high pressure to SW will push any slider lows further NE on 18z ( I'm guessing), but its a very complex and unpredictable set-up, so anything past +120 is very much up in the air I would have thought.

D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Karl Guille
03 December 2017 22:16:39
Uppers still on the cold side at 162!
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2017120318/gfs-1-162.png?18 
St. Sampson
Guernsey
roger63
03 December 2017 22:23:27

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=120&carte=2000


120h fax for Friday.Air flow shifting towards NW suggesting an early cut off of direct arctic air.

doctormog
03 December 2017 22:28:51


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=120&carte=2000


120h fax for Friday.Air flow shifting towards NW suggesting an early cut off of direct arctic air.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


As is often the case it looks siniliar to the UKMO chart for the same time (in other words in this case cold). 


White Meadows
03 December 2017 22:33:46
Extended UKMO looks rather uninspiring:

https://ruc.noaa.gov/hfip/tcgen/ 

A quick return to westerlies after that collapse of HP southwards.
Gandalf The White
03 December 2017 22:37:07

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gfs.aspx?run=18&charthour=150&chartname=mslp500&chartregion=na-region&charttag=500hPa%20GPDM

Clash of air masses coming

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


No, that's going to be a simple capitulation: the angle at which the LP and trough are advancing says it won't be a slider.  


Very different across NE Canada with a more coherent chunk of the vortex.  Hopefully the 18z has this wrong, otherwise we end up the wrong side of the jet for most of the country.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


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