There are many reasons why I remember December 2010 very well. What I found was even then, we wouldn't get any snow from any of the northerlies which were around then even though there were a number of places which were still getting snow from that. However, there was more than enough decent proper easterlies around then to more than compensate for that. We had a lot of snow here in March 2013 and that is still the last time that even the north of Edinburgh (which is right on the coast) had quite deep snow cover.

That lasted for only a short period of time though and so, we haven't actually had any deep snow here since December 2010 which has actually lasted for any length of time. That snowfall would of course, come from those easterlies and there was always enough of that left over when the next northerly came along to ensure that this lasted for quite a while. The only problem back then was that this snow had largely turned to ice by then, making it very difficult to get around.

Once we got to the winter of 2012/13, we had a lot of snowfall then as well from those easterlies which produced a lot of deep snow away from the coast but the difference then was the snow just didn't lie here where I live because as well as having to get that easterly in the first place, you then have to somehow hope that there isn't too much of a moderation of that air mass right on the coast due to that wind coming from the relatively warm North Sea (such as what we had back in February) and that is a very difficult to act to actually pull off.

As for this month (and indeed this winter) we had a slight air frost on the very first day of this month but that is all we have had so far and in fact, our minimum temperatures have been steadily increasing during each day since then with every single day so far, giving us our highest minimum temperature of both the month and winter so far with that one night where we did get an air frost being the only occasion so far where the temperature dropped to below 4°C. On one night, we did get a minimum temperature of -4°C at Edinburgh Airport. However, that happened during November which is part of the autumn and so, we now have a situation just now where our lowest temperature of the overall autumn/winter season didn't even happen during the actual winter. When you add all of that up, this is not exactly the sort of start to the winter which any coldie in this part of the world would have hoped for so far.

EDIT:

I forgot to add as well that whilst we might well have a cold snap coming up at the end of the week, one thing which is certain is that we're probably yet again, not going to get any snow from that here in Edinburgh and of course, I've no doubt that it will probably be too windy again for much in the way of frost if anything at all. This means that even that probably isn't going to be that exciting here and whilst it might not be quite as bad as what we have seen in recent years, this winter is still in my books, developing into a bit of a non-event just now, yet again.

I've got to hand it to You John, if Brian did an award for the longest posts you'd win by a country mile 

Yes, but I do realise that there is an actual limit to what you can enter into each post (I think that this limit is 32767 characters per post) which is why when I'm giving a detailed summary for both Edinburgh Gogarbank and the botanic gardens in Edinburgh over on the precipitation watch threads, I always split that into two separate posts so that each of these posts can then deal with each of those stations in isolation.

Utterly vile yet again. Just came out of work to find it raining - not forecast or even on the radar 

Looks like it will be the mildest first week of winter since 1974 here or even longer than that. Just absolutely dire with the temperature not dropping below 4C in over four days yet feeling cold every day and failing to reach 10C.

If you look at previous very mild spells they were nowhere near as stupefyingly boring as this. There is basically no diurnal range at all whereas in 1974 the minima were far cooler, and maxima milder, with diurnal ranges up to 10C.

https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/12-1974/ws-30910.html 

Same in 1979 – very mild start but with far more temperature variation.

https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/12-1979/ws-30910.html 

and the same again in 1988

https://en.tutiempo.net/climate/12-1988/ws-30910.html 

You hardly see any days in there with the 2-3C, or lower, diurnal ranges that are so common nowadays. In the past you got that from easterlies now it’s everything.

Look at this and you see only one day out of the last five that exhibits normal diurnal variation:

http://www.weathercast.co.uk/world-weather/weather-stations/obsid/3091.html 

The 2010s is truly the decade the weather died. It is the lack of temperature variation I despise more than the mild temperatures. Mind numbing beyond comprehension

Now, I really don't like the way that this winter is going. At the moment, we have double figure temperatures to such an extent there were a number of days even during the summer which weren't much warmer than that. This means that basically, this winter so far has been just the same old story in terms of what other recent winters have been like, and is every bit as bad at the moment for those of us who just want to see some cold weather.

We do have some cold weather coming up, but this is basically just going to be in the form of dry NW winds once Storm Caroline moves out of the way. This means that yet again, Edinburgh will be missing out on any snow which other parts of the country will be getting and once again, it will probably still be too windy for an air frost. Now, even this promise of a slider low on Sunday is going out of the window as that continues to get pushed further south on the various forecast models. These things tend to happen in one of two ways because when they come further north, it tends to just be places north of the Central Belt which gets any of the snow which means that we then just end up getting a lot of rain here. The other scenario is that it goes too far south for us to get anything from that at all, and this is now looking like the most likely outcome.

Here, I can see a lot of southerners rejoicing in the fact that they might get some action from that, but my question here is why on Earth should it always be people in the south of the UK which gets all of the fun when it comes to our weather? If you go back to six months ago to the early part of the summer, I didn't hear anyone in the south complaining when they were basking in temperatures up into the mid 30s whilst here in Edinburgh, we were experiencing our wettest June on record. To me, it would therefore only be fair if those fortunes were reversed sometimes and it is time that people in the south of England realised that. In a fair world, everyone has to have their turn of getting the fun at some point in time and people have to realise that this will mean that everyone will also have to have a shot of missing out on that fun at some point in time, which other people are getting.

At the moment, we have had a very dry start to the winter and although we might get some rain later on courtesy of Storm Caroline, that is unlikely to be enough to prevent the rainfall totals from still being well below average once that event has passed. if we don't get that slider low on Sunday or the one after that, these rainfall deficits are just going to keep piling up even further. All I can then see ahead is a really dry winter and then what's the betting that nearly all of the rainfall then gets saved up for next summer, just as it was this year?

Well, I guess that's fair comment now that a sufficient period of winter has elapsed

Another awful day. Got to 10.8C overnight then dropped in the middle of the day then increased again. Stuck on 10.2C for over an hour 

After this rotten-to-the-core start to winter the rest of the month will need to be over 1C below average just to reach the average. Mean so far 6.4C and tomorrow will take it above the 6.6C recorded for the first week of December 2015. Mean min almost 3C above average so far with a hefty rise likely to come by tomorrow morning

Models show this coming cold spell to be a complete waste of time for this area with no accumulating snow and hardly any precipitation. Neither are remotely credible given the synoptics being modelled.

Just how the hell can Aberdeen be one of the driest places in the country over the next week given the N and NW flows predominating?

http://wxmaps.org/pix/prec4.htmlSurely this has to be nonsense.

In the unlikely event that this does come off as indicated then my interest in current weather, which is currently on life support, will end up dead and buried for good because I can’t take any more of this relentless dross.

I'm sure that Richard will probably have a few words to say about that on this thread tomorrow as well (you might well have just beat him to that).

Just to show how insane this situation is, our highest overnight temperatures are now up to 13.0°C at Edinburgh Gogarbank, 13°C at Edinburgh Airport and 13.7°C at the botanic gardens in Edinburgh.

In the case of the botanic gardens in Edinburgh, that is actually our highest temperature since 15 October 2017. There were a number of days even in the middle of summer which were actually cooler than that and yet, we are supposed to be in the middle of winter just now. This just shows you how utterly crazy and mixed up, our weather has become these days.

Fun, eh? Yup, I'm really looking forward to days on end of cold rain as the snow-bearing lows pass harmlessly to the north! Awesome, maybe I'll have a puddle party while those "up north" are basking in their pristine white snow-fall.

You must have missed my complaints about June, as well - summer heat sucks, frankly; if you're cold in winter, put the heating on and wear a jumper. If you're fruitlessly trying to get to sleep in a room where it's 34C (good luck with that), you're utterly stuffed. It's why I bought an air-con unit a few years back, it's more than paid for itself (even though as a portable one it struggles when it'd stupidly hot - there were a couple of days where 25C was all it could manage by bedtime). I could mention too how the already insane roads around here become an utter hellhole in summer, as cranky Londoners clutter them up - and bring their enhanced road-rage with them. It's frankly miserable and it's why, when I retire, I'll be looking to move north.

It's one reason why I kind of like the weather in Leeds - we are usually far enough south and east to join in on heatwaves, but far enough north and east, with not too low elevation, to benefit during cold spells and snowy periods.

That being said, the only places in the UK that gets really reliable snow are the top of mountains. Pretty much everywhere sucks for snow. The same is true in summer, if you want reliable sunshine and heat you have to go abroad.

Well at least that way, you wouldn't have to be worrying about the possibility of a drought, thanks to that resulting rainfall. I know that because one of reasons why I have seen these recent drought threads appearing has been due to the lack of winter rainfall in the south in particular over the last few years (yes, I could probably include 2015/16 amongst that as well since that was a much drier winter down south than it was here) whereas summer rainfall has tended not to matter so much in these instances.

I will add as well not everyone in Scotland gets to enjoy that white pristine snow as you claim. Here in Edinburgh, we hardly ever get snow these days even when the rest of Scotland is getting it, so that should be quite a good example of this fact. However, if indeed these lows are passing in such a way that Scotland is enjoying that snowfall with just rain further south, you should at least be grateful that these setups are actually helping you to avoid these possible drought scenarios and are therefore actually better then what we have been seeing during recent winters where these systems have been even further north still with the whole of the UK being mild, Scotland getting most of the rain and the south of England being bone dry.

My suggestion would be the Buxton area Darren, good altitude, beautiful countryside, well positioned to benefit from all types of wintry synoptics and central enough for you to nip back down South when required.

That certainly sounds appealing - Wiki says an average high of 5C in January and February, which is a degree and a half lower than the 61-90 average here (and 2½C colder than the 81-10 average)... that should certainly help with keeping things on the right side of marginal!

My dad's side of the family came from Sheffield, and having been up on the moors near there it's wonderfully invigorating. I'd imagine Buxton would be similar.

Meanwhile, back to the here and now, I'd expect this moaning thread to be quite busy early next week, if today's models are anything to go by. ECM has a lovely big warm sector across the whole of the UK on Wednesday - no worries about being a couple of hundred miles away from snow if that comes to pass!

"Snowiest place in England" was on our local TV news last night - apparently its Copley in County Durham. Supposedly verified by MetOffice statistics:

"Not only is it the worst in England, depending on your point of view, it is also the fifth worst in the entire UK.

Only the Cairngorms, Shetland, Fair Isle and the Orkney Islands, get more."

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/its-snowiest-place-england-its-13860988

The wider Peak District is the area I'd suggest, too - although that's because it's still south enough not to totally miss out on any summer warmth.

As you hate warmth (and do seem to love nature and the wilderness vibe) then Cumbria (tourists notwithstanding) or (less tourists) Durham or Northumberland would suit. After visiting Northumberland a few times, there are places that feel so remote there's like a frontier feeling about it!

No, it shows that you were on the mild side of a very deep low bringing warm southerly winds, and the temperature will drop by a good 10C by this evening. Nothing "crazy" or "mixed up" about large temperature variations either side of a winter storm.

It's hard not to [edit: post from an IMBY perspective], unless you want to cover the various conditions expected across the swathe of the UK in each post. My peeve is when people don't make it clear they're talking about their particular area - many is the time I've started the morning slog through the MO thread to be met with several posts all saying the models are backing off on whatever sort of spell is forecast, only to check the output and wonder what they're talking about, before realising that for the SE corner of England it may be downgraded but for most it's still on track.

As long as people make it clear they're posting from a local perspective, I've not got a problem with it.

In summer, it is light for most of the time with the Sun getting higher in the sky at midday than at any other time of year. This leaves us plenty of scope for solar heating even if there isn't a warm air mass around to warm things up.

In winter, the Sun is only above the horizon for a few hours in the middle of the day here in Scotland and is never high enough in the sky for it to be to significantly contribute towards bringing the temperature up on its own which means that we therefore have to rely on a supply of mild Atlantic air and the maritime effect in order to get any warmth at all (otherwise it would probably be as cold here is in Siberia).

Now, you have stated that I described is technically speaking, not actually crazy and mixed up, and give a very good and valid reason for why that is the case. That reason however, is something which I have always known all along. However, this still doesn't take anything from the fact that when you consider the differences between winter and summer that I have described and take that into consideration, the very concept that it is even possible for one night during the winter to be even warmer than a certain other day during the summer (and for one day in summer to be cooler than a certain other night in winter) just sounds crazy and mixed up to me, even if it technically isn't. That is why I will continue to see that as being crazy and mixed up in my books.

😂😘