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Quantum
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:01:48 PM

Dream scenario on the NAVGEM ruined by crappy uppers. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Retron
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:06:07 PM



One thing of note on the 144 there is the westward ridging of the 'Beast'... 


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Interesting!


Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


It's worth mentioning that it's not the beast, more its mild counterpart. Yes, there's some cold at the surface but it's essentially on the tropical side of the jet and it's the sort of thing that'd bring disappointment were it to affect us (well, disappointment for snow fans, anyway!)


If you want a real beast it has to form on the northern side of the jet. That's when you get deep cold air involved and it's those type of highs which bring the truly perishing conditions that would be associated with the "Beast".


Leysdown, north Kent
Polar Low
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:11:28 PM

-12 into scotland Q


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?&ech=126&mode=1&carte=1


plenty of time to change at that distance but yes it is lovely split and set up



Dream scenario on the NAVGEM ruined by crappy uppers. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Quantum
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:32:49 PM

Tonights ECM is the first model to really tap into decent uppers. Smashing run so far. 


 


VEGITA what does the ECM say about the blocking levels?

ITS OVER NINE THOUSAND.


 


WHAT NINE THOUSAND, THERE'S NO WAY THAT CAN BE RIGHT.  


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
ITSY
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:35:40 PM

My goodness me, has anyone seen the GFS Control run? Absolutely smashing cold and snow all round by the end of FI, certainly a 2010 repeat if that came off, with an unbelievable well placed block around Greenland. Taps into the sort of NEly flow that I was banging on about a few pages back. 

Gooner
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:39:25 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111412/ECH1-168.GIF?14-0


ECM at 168...not bad at all


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:44:18 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111412/ECH1-192.GIF?14-0


ECM 192 gives us an Easterly


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111412/ECH0-192.GIF?14-0


Not your -8's etc but still chilly


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


moomin75
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:48:05 PM

Starting to get a little interested now....but typically (as was the case in 2010), I'm off to Oz for the Ashes in ten days' time to take in the 2nd and 3rd Tests....


Typical - as seems to be the case every time I go away....Almost set in stone because of that! In 2010, I was stranded in Australia at Christmas because of the snow problems at the airports...(not the worst place in the world to be stranded)...but could history repeat itself?


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
haghir22
Thursday, November 14, 2013 6:52:56 PM

Starting to get a little interested now....but typically (as was the case in 2010), I'm off to Oz for the Ashes in ten days' time to take in the 2nd and 3rd Tests....


Typical - as seems to be the case every time I go away....Almost set in stone because of that! In 2010, I was stranded in Australia at Christmas because of the snow problems at the airports...(not the worst place in the world to be stranded)...but could history repeat itself?

Originally Posted by: moomin75 



That's it. Nailed on now for sure.
YNWA
Karl Guille
Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:27:47 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111412/ECH1-168.GIF?14-0


ECM at 168...not bad at all

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Indeed my little Arsenal friend! ECM really ups the ante and even keeps a title cold pool over France at the end of the run. Very early season but the runs of the last few days convinced me to retrieve my password and get back on the site, albeit on my iPad!


St. Sampson
Guernsey
White Meadows
Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:49:28 PM
I still don't buy it, even after that ECM 12z.
Apparently the block is setting up on the wrong side if the jet..?
Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

Isn't it Tom Prusetti's (excuse spelling) big arctic winter for the UK this year? I remember reading about it in 2001!!
Gooner
Thursday, November 14, 2013 7:53:41 PM

I still don't buy it, even after that ECM 12z.
Apparently the block is setting up on the wrong side if the jet..?
Anyone else have any thoughts on that?

Isn't it Tom Prusetti's (excuse spelling) big arctic winter for the UK this year? I remember reading about it in 2001!!

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Tom's was 2012 I think


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chiltern Blizzard
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:06:14 PM


My goodness me, has anyone seen the GFS Control run? Absolutely smashing cold and snow all round by the end of FI, certainly a 2010 repeat if that came off, with an unbelievable well placed block around Greenland. Taps into the sort of NEly flow that I was banging on about a few pages back. 


Originally Posted by: ITSY 

 


Just had a look at this on the chart viewer.... you're right - a 2010 repeat in far FI with blocking perfectly aligned to give severe cold spell .   However, it is only in t300+ that the really juicy synoptics appear so only chart eye candy at the mo.


Andrew


Edit: Actually, some tasty synoptics pre t300 too


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
nsrobins
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:28:17 PM


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111412/ECH1-168.GIF?14-0


ECM at 168...not bad at all


Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 



Indeed my little Arsenal friend! ECM really ups the ante and even keeps a title cold pool over France at the end of the run. Very early season but the runs of the last few days convinced me to retrieve my password and get back on the site, albeit on my iPad!

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Welcome back Karl.


You all know the phrase - the one with Feet and Firmly and Ground in it.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Jive Buddy
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:32:34 PM



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111412/ECH1-168.GIF?14-0


ECM at 168...not bad at all


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Indeed my little Arsenal friend! ECM really ups the ante and even keeps a title cold pool over France at the end of the run. Very early season but the runs of the last few days convinced me to retrieve my password and get back on the site, albeit on my iPad!

Originally Posted by: Karl Guille 


Welcome back Karl.


You all know the phrase - the one with Feet and Firmly and Ground in it.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Not one to use if you want to be a pilot


It's not over, until the fat Scandy sinks.....

Location: St. Mary Cray, S.E. London border with Kent.
Gusty
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:34:00 PM

Without ramping this up unnecessarily, the sort of charts we were seeing at T144/192 in November 2010 were similar to what we are seeing now. Similar conversations were taking place back then that the uppers were not cold enough..slowly but surely though the -5's (850Hpa's) expanded as we approached and then levelled out in the -8c as we reached the event.


My opinion FWIW is that there will be a fair mix of convective rain, sleet and snow on offer next week. Favoured elevated northeastern areas just a few miles inland from the coast such as the North York Moors are particularly favoured but nowhere is immune from a cheeky event here and there especially if a shallow low drops down from a mesoscale development courtesy of the very cold 500Hpa temps progged aloft.


We need to look at the signals and trends...this is creeping up on us.


It is also good to see that many members on here are grounded and are viewing this unfolding situation with balanced views. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Phil G
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:38:38 PM
Good to see low pressure forecasted for the med in the coming days. While some have said the set up is a waste of synoptics for this time of year, from time to time our weather can get stuck in a rut and if this pattern repeats, could be a positive and good timing for coldies as we approach Winter.
Phil G
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:40:39 PM
Remember a very good snowfall as far down as here in November 1993 and caught the country out. If it can snow, let it snow!
Quantum
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:41:28 PM

I have to say, despite the 850s looking mild, the partial thicknesses are much more conductive to snow. They do pick up a little bit after wednesday but remain below 130 for all but costal areas. This translates to a marginal situation. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Whether Idle
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:52:24 PM


Without ramping this up unnecessarily, ...It is [good] to see that many members on here are grounded and are viewing this unfolding situation with balanced views. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Is it going to snow in Carlisle


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
GIBBY
Thursday, November 14, 2013 8:55:54 PM

Good evening. Here is my evening report on a very complex change in weather pattern within the coming week, data reported on supplied from the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Thursday November 14th 2013.


All models show a NW flow over the UK backing more towards the West over the next 24 hours as a ridge crosses the UK from the West attached to a High pressure area to the SW. Troughs will be held at bay for a day or so which will mean a lot of dry if rather cloudy and benign weather is likely over the UK until later on Saturday. A front then slides South over the UK bringing occasional rain and will maintain temperatures close to average for that point in time. Over Monday another more active cold front brings a band of rain too but this time becomes followed by very much colder weather with Northerly winds and wintry showers spreading across Britain on Tuesday.


GFS then shows cold weather setting in across the UK for a good portion of the rest of the run with a NE feed of raw winds across Southern Britain bringing rain and sleet at times and snow on the highest hills. Further North though the snow level will be lower the weather will generally be drier but no less cold with widespread frosts by night. At the end of the run the weather shown is still cold under a slack flow with Northerly winds and wintry showers near the coasts but a lot of dry, cold and crisp weather inland.


UKMO tonight shows a cold NNE flow across the UK with wintry showers almost anywhere but more especially in the East. Frosts at night will become widespread. The NW may see some freezing fog patches later as a ridge moves in and winds fall light here.


GEM shows very cold weather developing from the middle of next week with a broad scale Easterly flow dragging cold and grey conditions across the UK with rain and sleet at low levels and snow over quite modest elevations. The most precipitation will be towards the SE with all areas becoming calmer but still cold, frosty and possibly foggy by term.


NAVGEM shows complex Low pressure over the UK after the introduction of cold weather by the middle of next week. This then slides to the South with a raw and strong Easterly wind. Rain, sleet or snow will feature heavily over England and Wales with any meaningful snow reserved for the hills of the North. The far North and west could well become dry and cold away from North Sea coasts.


ECM shows cold weather arriving from the North early next week with High pressure soon developing to the North and setting up a very cold ENE flow across the UK by the end of the week. With such cold air and relatively low pressure wintry showers will occur quite widely especially near North sea coasts though inland it could be mostly dry. Later in the run Low pressure return North from the South cutting off the cold feed from Southern areas and returning the South of the UK slowly but surely into a very unsettled and slightly on the chilly side period with rain or showers at times and snow on the highest ground and in the North.


The GFS Ensembles on the face of it look nothing spectacular for cold lovers given the synoptics shown. However, they are only telling half the story with synoptics to die for from some members of the pack tonight. Nevertheless the definitive is that the weather is going to turn cold with some sleet or snow for some especially with elevation. However, away from elevation widespread snowfall would be unlikely with borderline uppers for much of the time.


The Jet Stream shows the flow riding high over the Atlantic before plunging South over the UK early next week. The flow then begins to settle at a latitude South of the UK with a trajectory such that prolonged and cold spell is possible for the UK.


In Summary a cold spell is on the way and no doubt some snow will fall in places over next week. The longer term synoptics differ from model to model and there is still some way to go before longevity of such a spell becomes guaranteed. With ones feet firmly on the ground snowmageddon is certainly not an option with cold rain and sleet more likely in the South though with falling snow possible over the higher hills. Further North the chance of settling snow increases with possible disruption at times to high level routes. Looking further out my suggestion of a foggy and frosty spell that I indicated this morning looks a little less likely tonight with perhaps more of a suggestion of the Low pressure to the South edging North again and cutting off the cold feed maybe more likely. However, all this is sheer speculation and I must concede and understand the excitement through what is dream synoptics thrown out by the models at the moment. It is a shame it's just two months too early to give what would be a memorable cold spell should it of evolved as shown then.


Transcript taken from:-http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Saint Snow
Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:07:18 PM

I'm a bit worried seeing such charts so early. I'd rather they came around in a month or so - a snowbound lead-up to Xmas again would be fantastic.


Of course, we could get a repeating pattern of northern blocking as we've seen often in recent years, but I think that's a long shot.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gooner
Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:09:00 PM


I'm a bit worried seeing such charts so early. I'd rather they came around in a month or so - a snowbound lead-up to Xmas again would be fantastic.


Of course, we could get a repeating pattern of northern blocking as we've seen often in recent years, but I think that's a long shot.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


I have always thought this sort of set up in November is wasted but after the weeks of mild weather I am only too pleased to be seeing it.


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Saint Snow
Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:13:17 PM



I'm a bit worried seeing such charts so early. I'd rather they came around in a month or so - a snowbound lead-up to Xmas again would be fantastic.


Of course, we could get a repeating pattern of northern blocking as we've seen often in recent years, but I think that's a long shot.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I have always thought this sort of set up in November is wasted but after the weeks of mild weather I am only too pleased to be seeing it.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


I'd be happy with a mild & wet November (and first half of December) if we could just get a snowmageddon second half of December.


 


As it is, the pattern of northern blocking doesn't (IMVHO) look that stable.



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
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