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Gooner
17 January 2019 20:06:10

ECM keeps its Easterly theme going , cracking run 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Saint Snow
17 January 2019 20:11:28

Where's the site Retron posted, which has a lot of the GFS style content like PPN type and snow depth?



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Snowedin3
17 January 2019 20:14:12


Where's the site Retron posted, which has a lot of the GFS style content like PPN type and snow depth?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


i think weather.us


Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
SJV
17 January 2019 20:14:40


ECM keeps its Easterly theme going , cracking run 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


A fantastic mean at t168 as others have posted. I'm less nervous now  I'd like an improved UKMO tomorrow morning for breakfast 

Snow Hoper
17 January 2019 20:16:29


Where's the site Retron posted, which has a lot of the GFS style content like PPN type and snow depth?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Could it be


whttps://meteologix.com/ie/forecast/2641181-norwich/ensemble/euro/snow 


Obviously change location.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
Arcus
17 January 2019 20:26:02


Where's the site Retron posted, which has a lot of the GFS style content like PPN type and snow depth?


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


https://weather.us/forecast/2650517-easingwold/ensemble/euro/temperatur850


Set to my location, but easily changed Saint 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Whether Idle
17 January 2019 20:31:37

Well worth remembering we are looking for cross model agreement at 120 or 96 hours.  Some interesting FI charts for sure from some models, I would urge caution until that time frame.  So next weekend (ie 9 days away) is not worth a serious investment of my time in advance until, say t120 which is Monday.  Lots of runs til then.


Here are some current output examples of what happens if things don't fall the right way upstream.  Plenty of 12z GEFS show a similar outcome eg perts 1 2 and 3.


here is GEM for t168:



...and for day 9:



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
jhall
17 January 2019 20:35:05


 


https://weather.us/forecast/2650517-easingwold/ensemble/euro/temperatur850


Set to my location, but easily changed Saint 


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


That is brilliant, not least because it goes out to 15 days! ATM it looks like it's still using today's 0Z run. so that's something to be aware of.


Cranleigh, Surrey
Polar Low
17 January 2019 20:44:27

From Matt



Inspection of the EC ENS shows the EC HRES is not an outlier up to Fri of next week and is well represented by a large number of the ENS members the majority of which have the E or NE'ly flow as next week progresses. One could argue the GFS, GEM etc are outliers when compared. 


but while, so far this winter, the amplification of the GWO has been lacking, the prediction is for a higher amplification through phase 5 and 6, as highlighted in the next wk. Note the anoms, in Jan, for those phases, especially phase 6. Cold & blocked!




 
 
 
Arcus
17 January 2019 20:46:55


 


That is brilliant, not least because it goes out to 15 days! ATM it looks like it's still using today's 0Z run. so that's something to be aware of.


Originally Posted by: jhall 


I think it updates by about 9pm, could be wrong (equally 9am on the 00z)


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
White Meadows
17 January 2019 21:02:36
De Bilt not especially cold and not keen on a path to an extended period of cold either:

http://www.weersite.net/?actueel&ensemble&ecmwfpluim 

Large pinches of salt with every 6 hourly meal strongly recommended.
Whether Idle
17 January 2019 21:04:40

 


JMA not getting the airing it received 24 hours ago, cant imagine why not..psst heres the day 8 chart...



Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Saint Snow
17 January 2019 21:06:10


Could it be


whttps://meteologix.com/ie/forecast/2641181-norwich/ensemble/euro/snow 


Obviously change location.


Originally Posted by: Snow Hoper 



https://weather.us/forecast/2650517-easingwold/ensemble/euro/temperatur850


Set to my location, but easily changed Saint 


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


 


Thanks, guys. 


Not too bad - home reaches 3", Manchester 4.8"


 


Edit: well noticed, JHall. 



 



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
John p
17 January 2019 21:07:17

De Bilt not especially cold and not keen on a path to an extended period of cold either:

http://www.weersite.net/?actueel&ensemble&ecmwfpluim

Large pinches of salt with every 6 hourly meal strongly recommended.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


You don't think sub zero daytime maxes are especially cold?


Camberley, Surrey
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
17 January 2019 21:11:01

De Bilt not especially cold and not keen on a path to an extended period of cold either:

http://www.weersite.net/?actueel&ensemble&ecmwfpluim

Large pinches of salt with every 6 hourly meal strongly recommended.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


ECM seems more inclined to an easterly than GFS



ECMWF Windrichting




GFS Windrichting



Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
17 January 2019 21:15:10

850hPa temperature anomalies


EPS12z day 6-10 mean anomaly is -6C across most of England and Wales


https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=ecmwf-ens&region=eu&pkg=T850aMean&runtime=2019011712&fh=360


GEFS12z day 6-10 mean anomaly is -5C


https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs-ens&region=eu&pkg=T850aMean&runtime=2019011712&fh=240


GEFS12z day 11-15 mean anomaly is also -5C


https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs-ens&region=eu&pkg=T850aMean&runtime=2019011712&fh=360


So a prolonged spell of cold weather is being indicated by the ensembles


2m temperature anomalies


GEFS12z day 6-10 mean is 3C below average across the heart of England


https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs-ens&region=eu&pkg=T2maMean&runtime=2019011712&fh=240


GEFS12z day 11-15 mean is also 3C below average with 4C across much of Scotland


https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysis/models/?model=gfs-ens&region=eu&pkg=T2maMean&runtime=2019011712&fh=360


Not exceptionally cold but cold enough for a 5 day period.


By way of comparison here are the coldest 5 day CET 2m mean temperature anomalies from the cold spells in Feb / Mar 2018:


26 Feb to 2 Mar -7.3C
17-21 Mar -5.1C


Coldest 10 day mean anomaly was -5.1C from 22 Feb to 3 Mar

Russwirral
17 January 2019 21:19:30
Quantum
17 January 2019 21:32:35

For those getting excited about the ECM you are setting yourself up for disappointment.


GFS, UKMO are not on board.


The model that doesn't predict severe cold tends to be right.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
fairweather
17 January 2019 21:36:13


All looking much as it has on the main models IMO - a generally cold theme with a reasonable chance of some milder interludes, more so for the south, and also a realistic chance of some even colder air at times from the east.


I'd happily side with this being a generally cold pattern, so rather than worrying too much if one cold shot fails, it'd just be a case of seeing how the next attempt goes. I don't think we're in one of those patterns where the LP track fundamentally alters the longer term pattern - short term it definitely could scupper a cold shot but long term I think things would revert back to a colder set up and it's then a case of more luck with the next attempt.


We do seem to be relying on LPs tracking over or near to the UK to drag the coldest air in, hence some of the runs and ens members bringing milder air in - small tweaks to the LP intensity and track having big short term impacts on the ground. Worth noting that just as a tweak one way can mean milder, a tweak the other can mean deep cold (at least for a while) as nicely demonstrated by this evenings ECM. At least with LP about there should be some precipitation about too, of one variety or another


Fun times if you like cold but with enough uncertainty to drag the mood down at times when the models back a slightly milder blip or outcome.


 


Originally Posted by: Hippydave 



S.Essex, 42m ASL
Arcus
17 January 2019 21:39:15


For those getting excited about the ECM you are setting yourself up for disappointment.


GFS, UKMO are not on board.


The model that doesn't predict severe cold tends to be right.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Maybe we should have a referendum (TWO) on that? 


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Gooner
17 January 2019 21:41:43


For those getting excited about the ECM you are setting yourself up for disappointment.


GFS, UKMO are not on board.


The model that doesn't predict severe cold tends to be right.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Best you give the Beeb a ring then 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
17 January 2019 21:44:27

I saw that unusual for them



 


Best you give the Beeb a ring then 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Quantum
17 January 2019 21:52:20


 


Best you give the Beeb a ring then 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I think last year the Beeb had been predicting a cold spell at the some point when only the UKMO was hanging on and perhaps even a little after that. It never materialized in the end.


Not saying there won't be a cold spell, but what I am saying is 9 times out of 10 you only get severe cold when all the models are on board.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gusty
17 January 2019 21:52:27

Some interesting cold output but there are still wayyy too many westerly options still being presented across the NWP this evening to be confident of an outcome post 120 hours.


The Met Office update is encouraging but still does not discount the milder outcome that may occur.


 


 


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Arcus
17 January 2019 21:56:25


For those getting excited about the ECM you are setting yourself up for disappointment.


GFS, UKMO are not on board.


The model that doesn't predict severe cold tends to be right.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Without being too flippant, I think you know that's a crock.


BBC Weather now calling easterly next week on the BBC News.


EDIT: IMO Might happen, might not.


Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl

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