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doctormog
19 January 2019 10:22:39


I don't think anyone can call a solution on this just yet. When you look at two 6z models this morning that at T+114 show this:


GFS 6z Op:



and this (ICON 6z):



Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Absolutely. The GFS 06z op run for example is different to the ECM, UKMO and ICON but it is also different to the 00z GFS op run. When the day comes, all will have been wrong at some time stage and many may also have been right, as so many scenarios have been shown. Trying to pinpoint details should probably be limited to events on Monday and Tuesday, beyond then it will have to be a case of watching developments as they change once ,twice or even more a day


Shropshire
19 January 2019 10:23:33

A poor 06z rolling out, though drier than the ECM. What's really worrying is how poor it is upstream.


 


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Ally Pally Snowman
19 January 2019 10:24:59

Very cold air agonisingly close on the 6z this really would be a kick in the wotsits.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
nsrobins
19 January 2019 10:26:46
This particular GFS iteration fails to develop enough gap and the Scandy high sinks under the pressure of N Atlantic energy before its had a chance to establish. Some of the suite had this on the 00z run.
Come Monday we might need one of those ‘where did that come from’ moments 😉

Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gandalf The White
19 January 2019 10:28:33

06z plants the high to our south west with dire consequences for our cold spell.
Whatever background signals for a severe end to Jan were must have been barking up the wrong tree for too long.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


That's an effect of the changed jetstream profile, not the cause.


The issue is still as it was earlier in the week, i.e. Modelling correctly the track and intensity of that LP exiting the Eastern Seaboard. It would appear that the more likely track is NE and not north: that topples the ridge and opens the door for the next LP.


But I'm unaware of any signals for 'severe cold': that's not what the long-range forecasts were indicating. They were saying an increased probability of colder than normal weather.  Anyway, the current output doesn't make the background signals for the end of the month wrong, although I agree the trend seems to be away from severe cold.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


doctormog
19 January 2019 10:35:33
Interestingly this one op run seems to reverting to the pattern which persisted for days until recently: Colder shots from the northwest with less cold interludes. I suspect such options (along with the more recent easterlies), have persisted in the ensemble sets throughout.
idj20
19 January 2019 10:39:17


A poor 06z rolling out, though drier than the ECM. What's really worrying is how poor it is upstream.


 


Originally Posted by: Shropshire 



Yes, once the frigid cold air dig deep south over the US, hello mid-Atlantic cyclogenesis machine and goodbye to prolonged cold for us here at the UK.



Folkestone Harbour. 
Gusty
19 January 2019 10:42:42

We cannot get away from the fact that it is all very frustrating. We are definitely chasing rainbows here. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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Chunky Pea
19 January 2019 10:43:17

Interestingly this one op run seems to reverting to the pattern which persisted for days until recently: Colder shots from the northwest with less cold interludes. I suspect such options (along with the more recent easterlies), have persisted in the ensemble sets throughout.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Was actually thinking the same thing this morning.


GFS 6z at 216 has the -10 isotherm close to NW Ireland and more especially western Scotland and from the WNW. This, in itself, would be quite rare to see in any winter. 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/GFSOPEU06_216_2.png


 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Joe Bloggs
19 January 2019 10:46:31


We cannot get away from the fact that it is all very frustrating. We are definitely chasing rainbows here. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yes I’m furious this morning.


06z op is a real kick in the goolies. 


Still too early to call though. :) 



Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Russwirral
19 January 2019 10:47:13
The only thing to take away from this is... when has any cold spell arrived with 100% certainty. As in... we have had big wobbles before and they resolved themselves . Around this kinda timescale too.

Lets not lose our heads...
The Beast from the East
19 January 2019 10:47:49


We cannot get away from the fact that it is all very frustrating. We are definitely chasing rainbows here. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Yes, this is slipping away and hopefully the agony wont be prolonged and we can move on.


The evening runs may finish off the easterly 


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doctormog
19 January 2019 10:50:06

Ironically I would not be surprised if sections of this run were very much on the colder side of the t850hPa ensembles for some parts of the country.


Rob K
19 January 2019 10:51:13
FI looks good though 😉
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Maunder Minimum
19 January 2019 10:52:36

06z plants the high to our south west with dire consequences for our cold spell.
Whatever background signals for a severe end to Jan were must have been barking up the wrong tree for too long.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


As invariably happens with a UK cold spell, we have been fooled again. ECM has gone from hero to zero (I never put much faith in the GFS output to begin with ) .


Back to grey, grizzly reality this morning. Why do we torture ourselves with fake model output time and again? 


New world order coming.
moomin75
19 January 2019 10:52:53
Winter is over. There I've said it, on behalf of Andy W. Now can the models please do what they did when Andy said it and do something decent for a change. What a crap place THE UK is to live.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
marco 79
19 January 2019 10:55:42
Op has been showing as one of the colder runs in the suite recently....be interesting to see where it sits on this run....
Home : Mid Leicestershire ...135m ASL
Gandalf The White
19 January 2019 10:56:03




Yes, once the frigid cold air dig deep south over the US, hello mid-Atlantic cyclogenesis machine and goodbye to prolonged cold for us here at the UK.



Originally Posted by: idj20 


But it doesn't work like that, does it?  Ian makes the same comment periodically - it depends on the jetstream. Cyclogenesis off the Eastern Seaboard doesn't mean LP systems have to race across the Atlantic.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Chunky Pea
19 January 2019 10:56:59

The longer term output remains consistent. Cool to cold with not much deviation in general pattern. 


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Arbroath 1320
19 January 2019 10:57:21

There's been a lot of volatility in the MO over recent weeks and no more so than the last few days. Whilst I wouldn't be surprised to see the output flip again, experience tells us that the recent potential for a significant cold spell has diminished with recent runs.

However, if the set up continues for energy to dive SE over the UK from the NW then we could easily hit the jackpot next time. Onwards and upwards. No point getting down about it as the weather will do what it will do.


GGTTH
Ally Pally Snowman
19 January 2019 11:01:26

FI looks good though ;)

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


It does look like that even if this first easterly is dead which looks likely at the moment because of the SSW we will get 2,3,4 ,5 maybe more bites of the cherry.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Maunder Minimum
19 January 2019 11:02:06


The longer term output remains consistent. Cool to cold with not much deviation in general pattern. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Basically, nothing beyond t+120 is to be trusted at the moment  whatever it shows. For the British Isles the marginality is such that in any case a 100 mile difference in the output at t+96 can make all the difference down the line between wintery Nirvana and typical grey misery with cold rain. 


New world order coming.
moomin75
19 January 2019 11:02:48


 


 


It does look like that even if this first easterly is dead which looks likely at the moment because of the SSW we will get 2,3,4 ,5 maybe more bites of the cherry.


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

Yep we will no doubt get a cracking easterly in spring when we least want it.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Col
  • Col
  • Advanced Member
19 January 2019 11:04:16


We cannot get away from the fact that it is all very frustrating. We are definitely chasing rainbows here. 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZBWfyYtYQY


Col
Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg
doctormog
19 January 2019 11:04:42


 


Basically, nothing beyond t+120 is to be trusted at the moment  whatever it shows. For the British Isles the marginality is such that in any case a 100 mile difference in the output at t+96 can make all the difference down the line between wintery Nirvana and typical grey misery with cold rain. 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


You don’t need to look beyond 120hr for interesting conditions though


 


(That’s from the 06z GFSP)


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