Birmingham had snow laying on the suburbs as the train  approached yesterday 

All our snow has gone now but last week from Wednesday to Sunday morning was a good little cold snap. Certainly better than some recent years, if we could squeeze out another blast of cold before the end of Feb then I'd put this Winter into the "not bad" category.

What's made this Winter more frustrating is the promise shown by the long range models and background atmospheric drivers; promise which has been showing since December but which has never really (apart from the few days last week) come to anything.

I think we have to accept that that last shot of 'the Arctic' ,passing through the U.S. mid west and east coast, and the cold plume over the far North east of eurasia must have some impact on the 'depth' of cold left for us to tap into? 

As long as this current 'modern winter' set up maintains we either have to expect 'good' setups ruined at the last moment by a WAA bound for the Arctic ploughing through us or a 'poor' winter setup suddenly flip to a full on Arctic Plunge?

We have a matter of weeks before the sun again begins to warm the polar strat and so drive a 'final warming' there .

The loss of the influence of the polar night Jet (as we march into spring) means we will see the patterns that will become our summer patterns begin to assert themselves.

If we are settling into some 'post 2012' pattern booting out the 'washout summer' , post 07', set up then we might expect more frequent and lengthy spells of H.P. locked in over the UK again as we move into summer?

If it does then we can still expect some frosty nights right through to the start of May but precipitation might find itself pegged back with H.P. calling the shots.

 

---

This winter's been utter crap.

The snow last week was pitifully negligible here and in central Manchester. We actually only lost our last bits of snow yesterday afternoon when the depressing rain came (grass depth had been up to 2cm'ish) and nearby Billinge Hill (179m asl) was still white yesterday morning.

But given what other places got, it's a bit of a p*sser.

It's the second winter running where this area has had the dirty end of the stick in terms of snow.

---

From my perspective just over in Essex and only about 50 miles from Folkstone but not sticking out into the maritime influence as much it is absolutely climate change and synoptic pattern change. 65 years of photos and memories is enough to have factual evidence. Firstly North Easterlies and easterlies were more common, although not widespread. But they were definitely more HP spawned and that North Easterly did frequently bring snow showers off the N.Sea which is very rare now. People also in N.E England will know what I mean. They were largely coastal and rarely got as far in as London. But for East Anglia and Kent these could give a dusting (most winters) to several inches or a foot (rarer) of drifting blowing snow. I remember so many times driving along dry roads watching the snow swirling around on the curb sides.

The marginality of snow from the west has suffered with that 1C background increase. We had mainly rain here in the last week and that scenario that Central Southern England got was more common here in that set up. The forecast "rain turning to snow as it moves East" was a more frequently heard winter forecast even in milder winters.

Of course different generations will have different expectations and there is no doubt things have been better in the last decade than the previous two but if you took out 2009-10 the period wouldn't come close to the sixties to eighties, not so much for mega events but just the number of the smaller unrecorded cold snaps and snow falls such as the shower ones mentioned above.

I'm afraid it's not nostalgia, having been in the same area for nearly 70 years I have the evidence!

---

My moan of the day is cloudy skies. What a winter! I've noticed at night especially since taking up astrophotography how rarely it is clear. After a rare clear day I thought I might get away with it last night before the cloud rolled in. Got all set up but after 30 mins in came the cloud. Of course now would be perfect because no moon. Metcheck do an astronomy outlook. There are no clear nights forecast at all and it goes out to February 19th !!

---

Another one moaning when they've had snow on the ground!

Anybody here who hasn't had snow on the ground this winter, or even any snow at all? It'd be nice to know I'm not the only one - all I've had is lots of cold rain and sleet.

(Admittedly I went out and drove to some snow at the weekend, but it's not the same as seeing it in your own back yard!)

---

I live in the East Midlands, just East of the Pennines and I can assure you there has been no snow here at all this winter! 

---

 

Within 12 hours of the snow, 90% had gone - it was only shaded grassy areas and where snow had been shifted into little piles.

 

---

My location just a few miles down the Lancs from Saint fared a little bit better on Wednesday I think but I'm only talking 2 inches of snow. Anything that you can roll into a small snowman and make snowballs out of is seen as decent here. There are worse places for days with snow lying on the ground but I feel like we are pretty poor for quantity. You could probably count on just over one hand the amount of inches it has snowed in the past 5 years. 2010 is the snow goal 

Completely agree with all of that.

Did see a lot of people from Leeds moaning asking where the snow was , so i think  we were lucky with the showers Thr and Fri night in the NW of the city.  My parents in Pudsey said there was very little.

Amounts could bave been more but at least it stuck around. Just enough for kids to sledge.

https://ibb.co/y5KmvWF

 

---

We had a sugar dusting here that resembled a heavy frost.

Besides one ice day, entirely unremarkable. Just a bog standard winter cooler period.

---

Yes it was funny Friday morning because I looked out of the window at 6:30 and immediately phoned work (in Castleford) to say I would probably be late. After setting off I quickly found out that within a mile or so there was hardly any snow! 

We also had a few showers Friday night and Saturday was a beautiful sunny Winters morning and a very cold day. Absolutely loved it 

Well, I'm not too bothered whether it's cold or mild, or whether I see any snow, but I'm sick of the cloudy, gloomy weather.  As 'fairweather' posted above complaining about cloudy skies at night, I'm complaining about cloudy skies during the day.  Still, it does seem to be normal for the British winter.

---

Yes I would like to know what this is about. Been lurking here for many years and posting for several and didn't know that. I've probably never mentioned AGW  but didn't realise it was banned!! What is the reason for that? -just too much bickering and not much fact? Presumably it's okay to mention climate change in general. I mean it would be tricky not to bring it into some of the winter discussions from time to time. 

---

 

It does seem slightly mad that we can't mention global warming on a weather forum, but its Brian's gigg I suppose.  I think it was the bickering rather than the subject itself though.

 

---

 

Did you ever venture into the climate forum? I enjoy the knockabout debate in Up In Arms, but the Climate Forum was ridiculous. A topic couldn't last a page before one of the Denier Fundamentalists would go off on one.

I think Brian just doesn't want the sort of angry bickering infesting this section of the forum as well. Hope I'm not misinterpreting Brian's intentions here (if I disappear, you'll soon know!), but I think it would be fine to briefly reference AGW/climate change in respect of weather changes/impacts within a general weather point if it's relevant, but not to start of contribute to a debate on it.

---

Just to add my tuppence worth here, I know that there was a lot of rubbish posted on the climate forum in the past but then, you get that in any forum (this forum itself, has been no different in the past in that respect). For any given forum, I would say that it is only a tiny minority who will post a lot of rubbish and it's just sad that this can then end it spoiling it for everyone.

I would say that most of what you see on these forums is actually written in a very sensible manner, often by some very intelligent people whose abilities in that field go far above what i could probably manage myself. The end result of that, is that there has been a lot of really good content on these forums over the years and I didn't think that the climate forum was any different in that regard.

The climate forum was after all, a very good place to find out some very important things which could potentially have quite a massive impact on all of us in the future, such as the state of the Arctic sea ice and climate change (regardless of how much, we think that mankind has itself, contributed towards that), it's just a shame that there is no longer a place on this site for discussing all of those very important issues.

Climate is after all, nothing more than the average weather conditions over long periods of time and therefore deserves its place somewhere which makes it sad that there is nowhere to discuss that just now on this particular site, whereas there are other forums on this site where we can happily debate and discuss other issues such as football and politics which have nothing at all to do with the weather or climate, and which can often be even more controversial (especially in the UIA forum).

---

  The thing is, climate change and AGW are not the same and whilst obviously related, climate and weather are not the same either!  I will not take that any further because I’d like to keep my account on here!  

I can fully understand what Brian is referring to as I read most of TWO forums and there are just a few who don’t discuss or debate, rather they impose their views and ridicule anyone who questions, which makes a thread useless and tiresome.  So he has grounds for closing such threads and stopping the discussions.  If you’ve never been in the climate forum, you have no need to worry  

Of course climate will figure in discussion occasionally, but that is NOT what Brian is referring to!  He’s just preventing any overspill and I think we should respect that and end this discussion without further questions  

Sorry Brian!  I’ve said my bit!  End of!  Don’t delete me!  

---

i dont often post on here and leave the model discussion to people far more in the know than myself.Generally the discussions are intelligent and i respect many peoples knowledge on here . What annoys me sometimes is that as soon as a single run suggests a change to milder weather after a cold spell a whole month is wriitten of in a sentence before the month has even started by some people who should know better, . We all know the models flip from run to run and day by day and what is shown today could be very different in a few days . Even the professionals cant accurately forecast 3 days in advance let alone a month or longer and we have seen the flip flopping in the models all winter i suspect mainly because of the ssw upon which the meto based their longer term forecasts. . Looking ahead more than 4 days is really guesswork and its just irritates me when i see a poster writing off a month or even a season based on one or two runs they don't like !. Also the BBC just love the return to zonal conditions as its the only weather type they can forecast with any degree of certainty . Pretty miserable and chilly couple of days here with nearly 20mm rain yesterday far more than forecast !

Spot on. It always happens but the secret is to learn which posters are objective and ignore those who aren’t. As you say, there are some very knowledgeable people on the MO thread!  I’m not one of them though!  

---

About as bad as it can get!
What a horrendous day!
Drizzle, mist, fog, damp, mild, overcast, dull, dank, gloomy! Today was so miserable! Just like the look on many peoples faces - Miserable & depressing)-JUST like our political situation! YUCK!


Look forward to hearing your moan Richard. 

---

No, but your comment seems reasonable.

---

Thank you for clarifying it for me. 

---

You're right. I know that this is the moaning thread, but it is important that what we are moaning about here is relevant to the season which this thread is referring to, and also the fact that this is the weather forum and no other type of forum for that matter.

For that reason, it is important that this thread gets back to serving its original purpose as Tally has done a while ago and of course, as we will expect Richard from Aberdeen to do as some point in time given that this is where he excels more than on any other type of thread on this forum.

 

---