They won the Champions League once in what might be described as exceptional circumstances.
Originally Posted by: Saint Snow
Although the final was a freak result (getting pasted for 45 mins, then nicking 3 goals to totally shellshock the opposition), we still had to get there. We also got to another, again against Milan, 2 years later and IMO were the better side despite a 2-1 reverse.
Overall, out CL record under Benitez was very good - IIRC, the best out of any English club during the time he was at Anfield.
To limit your assessment of Liverpool's CL record to flagging up the Istanbul final as lucky is doing that Benitez team a disservice
The point I was making is that it sometimes takes a good couple of years for the damage to a club to become apparent. For quite a while on here I have been highly critical of Liverpool and the road they seemed to be going down, but most of the fans thought I was simply having a pop.
Originally Posted by: Super Cell
Every Liverpool fan I know had concerns over large aspects of the Benitez reign. Even the CL win didn't mask the worries about player recruitment, the total lack of players being brought through, and the generally negative gameplay. In fact, the only time the concerns mostly dissipated was during the 2008/9 season, when we almost took the PL title. Fans at that point did start to believe the corner was well and truly turned.
I know you criticised Benitez's Liverpool for their style of play, and I'd agree with you in the main. Overly cautious and negative, trying not to lose first and foremost, instead of trying to win. What was frustrating was that in 2008/9, the shackles seemed to be loosened and the team put in some great displays of attacking, dominant football. Which brings us to...
Liverpool fans will have their own views, but for me the signature departue was Alonso. The team has never been the same since.
Originally Posted by: Super Cell
Agree totally. The team the previous season had found confidence and developed an effective and set playing style. Alonso was key to that, as his vision, fast football brain and passing allowed Liverpool to crank up the gears in attack quickly.
Of course, him wanting out was all down to Benitez. There were many questions asked about the man-management skills of Benitez, as reported regarding several players. His handling of Alonso was rubbish. In 2007/8, Alonso had a season hampered with injury and struggling for form. Benitez eyed Gareth Barry (who'd just had a very good season at Villa) as a transfer target. It could argued that ideally Benitez wanted to add Barry to the squad at the expense of nobody, but the parasitic owners wouldn't/couldn't stump up the cash, so Benitez hamfistedly tried to flog an upset Alonso to anyone willing to pay the £15m it'd cost to get Barry. When the transfers didn't come off, Benitez had to try to salvage his relationship with Alonso. Absolute credit to Alonso's professionalism, he didn't make a fuss, just got on with putting in his best season at Liverpool and breaking into the Spanish national side. At the end of the season, he put in his transfer request; his relationship with Benitez had been broken beyond repair.
Benitez signed a (over-priced, injury-prone) midfielder who prefers to play an attacking role, so never actually replaced like with like, yet the team continued to try to play the same style as in 2008/9.
I do not think that the current squad is top five. They are three points off the relgation places going into the new year. They have just been outwitted by a hardworking but limited Wolves team on their own patch. They have one away win all season - a streaky 1-0 at Bolton. They have lost at City, United, Everton, Newcastle, Stoke & Spurs. At home they have lost to Blackpool and Wolves.
Originally Posted by: Super Cell
On paper, I think there's no doubt that the squad is underperforming. The established players have played much better in the past and those new to the club have shown far more at their previous clubs. They look clueless, passionless and, most of all, devoid of confidence.
Given the emergence of Spurs & City, it's a weighty top-5 but - and I appreciate this is purely personal opinion - I think the squad is good enough to hold its own in there. On paper.
They won't be relegated, of course, but equally how do they retain Torres and attract top talent when they're also rans?
Originally Posted by: Super Cell
They shouldn't be relegated (mostly because there's some teams down there who are really poor) but, like you say, holding onto Torres and attracting top players will be a hell of a job.
That's why the owners need to make a statement of intent by bringing in a real quality, proven manager - and back him with a big transfer kitty. With no CL (or even Europa...) football to offer, they'll have to offer higher wages in most cases, so it would need a significant investment (finger in the air, I'd say around £100m).
The alternative for the owners is to resign themselves to a much-reduced revenue stream as the team bumps about in mid-table for the foreseeable future with no European money, much-reduced sponsorship and declining global merchandising income.
It's a real crunch time at the club, and we'll see just what the ambitions of the new owners are over the next 8 months.
Originally Posted by: Super Cell