Europe does not have a command economy and will not cope as efficiently with the outbreak as China did, or for that matter as well as SK or Singapore. We have been stupid not to have introduced the same controls as Taiwan did in the early days - they are the role model.

But it is too late, the genie is out of the bottle and we will have to cope as best we can, but the sum total of human misery unleashed will be horrible. That is what I don't understand about the complacency - when a hospital near you is overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases and can do little else, perhaps you will adjust your opinion in the light of reality. We should have restricted and monitored travel from affected regions far more severely from the outset.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Europe does not have a command economy and will not cope as efficiently with the outbreak as China did, or for that matter as well as SK or Singapore. We have been stupid not to have introduced the same controls as Taiwan did in the early days - they are the role model.

But it is too late, the genie is out of the bottle and we will have to cope as best we can, but the sum total of human misery unleashed will be horrible. That is what I don't understand about the complacency - when a hospital near you is overwhelmed with COVID-19 cases and can do little else, perhaps you will adjust your opinion in the light of reality. We should have restricted and monitored travel from affected regions far more severely from the outset.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Your government won't even order events to be held behind closed doors. Money talks. 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

People are saying it will collapse. Do they have a crystal ball?

What a foolish comment.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Your government won't even order events to be held behind closed doors. Money talks. 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Western civilisation, you had a good run. pic.twitter.com/uFrYuGBWbr

— Aaron Bastani (@AaronBastani) March 7, 2020

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

People are saying it will collapse. Do they have a crystal ball?

What a foolish comment.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Nothing Bastani says is worth reading or wasting time on.

Originally Posted by: NickR 

You’d prefer temporary buildings?

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

perhaps, but the far east have the virus under control, whilst its out of control in many western countries, because making  money matters more

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

perhaps, but the far east have the virus under control, whilst its out of control in many western countries, because making  money matters more

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

perhaps, but the far east have the virus under control, whilst its out of control in many western countries, because making  money matters more

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

From The Times this morning:

"Antonio Pesenti, head of the Lombardy regional crisis response unit, told the Corriere della Sera newspaper that the health system in Lombardy was “a step away from collapse” as intensive care facilities came under strain. “We’re now being forced to set up intensive care treatment in corridors, in operating theatres, in recovery rooms. We’ve emptied entire hospital sections to make space for seriously sick people,” he said."

- this is the reality on the ground if the epidemic becomes exponential.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Have you considered the possibility that an unproven vaccine could actually make matters worse, for example if it produces unexpected nasty side-effects?

Or simply doesn't work?

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Many? 

Originally Posted by: westv 

That may be so. However as I said to GTW last night, it is just a pity that the Chinese didn't do a lot more to get this disease under control a long time ago and certainly before it had spread to other countries. If they had, then the whole grim situation that is now facing so many countries all over the place may have been avoided.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

The following post was shared on my Facebook feed....I don’t know the author although the person sharing it on FB is someone I trust .....it’s a bit long but sums up my thoughts ( from an entirely non medical point of view) entirely.

This is a post from a trusted source which seems balanced and authentic:
I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic

Originally Posted by: Chichesterweatherfan2 

The following post was shared on my Facebook feed....I don’t know the author although the person sharing it on FB is someone I trust .....it’s a bit long but sums up my thoughts ( from an entirely non medical point of view) entirely.

This is a post from a trusted source which seems balanced and authentic:
I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic

Originally Posted by: Chichesterweatherfan2 

Its spreading freely in much of Europe and America. Apart from Italy, only piecemeal measures have been imposed. We are sleepwalking to disaster for our NHS and care system.

Perhaps this is what Cummings wants. The excuse he needs to privatise

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

If people are sensible and stoic, there is no need for the NHS to be overwhelmed. That means only the most serious cases being admitted to hospitals.

I must say, the media is fanning the flames, generating panic & hysteria. And creating the very scenario that will cause major problems.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow