Disappointed to see you have regressed to your former incarnation, Peter

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

The following post was shared on my Facebook feed....I don’t know the author although the person sharing it on FB is someone I trust .....it’s a bit long but sums up my thoughts ( from an entirely non medical point of view) entirely.

This is a post from a trusted source which seems balanced and authentic:
I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic

Originally Posted by: Chichesterweatherfan2 

Nothing to see here. We will cope. Yadayadayada 

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

If people are sensible and stoic, there is no need for the NHS to be overwhelmed. That means only the most serious cases being admitted to hospitals.

I must say, the media is fanning the flames, generating panic & hysteria. And creating the very scenario that will cause major problems.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

To add, what the hell has happened to the British stiff upper lip? To the Blitz spirit that the nationalists love to dredge up?

Half the country is a bunch of self-entitled cry-arses (and if posters on UIA are any barometer, it's the Brexit-supporting little Englander nationalists who are the biggest whingers).

If you get it, go to bed and the extreme likelihood is that you'll get better a few days later.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

I don’t know that it’s fair to blame the Chinese for not doing more.  They could hardly have known the outcome in the early stages and by then it was more than likely too late to stop it.  We can look back and surmise what happened but I don’t think that will help matters now for reasons I posted earlier.  The horse is no longer in the stable!

Originally Posted by: Caz 

I think that all we can do is hope and pray that the NHS system won't collapse or even reach a point where it effectively grinds to a halt under pressure from coronavirus cases plus everything else it has to deal with normally.

I must say though that I find the current situation very, very troubling. This is why I agree with the point that MM made earlier that travel in and out of the countries that were affected early on should have been limited to a far greater extent.

As for what happens now, for me it is very much a case of hoping for the best (or in other words, the least bad outcome) while at the same time being prepared for the worst as much as we can.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 

I don't understand why anyone would think that we can control travel. There are multiple means of getting to/from Italy - train, car, boat - and multiple routes.  If people want to travel they will. If we had banned direct travel to northern Italy some people would have flown via somewhere else.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

I give you Taiwan:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-coronavirus-countries-stumble-200307034353325.html

P.S. Odd that Germany itself has reported no deaths, when you read the following:

"1 new death (a new case) in Egypt. First death in Africa. A 60-year-old German who arrived in Egypt last week, on March 1, was hospitalized with a fever on Friday, suffered respiratory failure caused by acute pneumonia on Saturday, and died on Sunday [source]"

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

This was posted a couple of days ago (so around a hundred pages back). It's one of the best pieces on the subject I've read. This bit especially hits home:

"I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess."

And this sums up the whole shitshow, and why hysteria and selfishness is very likely to be the root of a the problem, not the virus itself:

"The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous."

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

The following post was shared on my Facebook feed....I don’t know the author although the person sharing it on FB is someone I trust .....it’s a bit long but sums up my thoughts ( from an entirely non medical point of view) entirely.

This is a post from a trusted source which seems balanced and authentic:
I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil. I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too. Can you even
imagine?

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it. Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it.

#washurhands #geturflushot #respect #patiencenotpanic

Originally Posted by: Chichesterweatherfan2 

Perhaps there is truth in the rumours that they have invented a secret cure?

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I don't know why people are focusing on events? Offices and pubs are surely the main risks. Therefore:

1) work from home where possible
2) close pubs temporarily

These measures would be more effective than some being touted. Funny they don't seem under discussion.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

What will collapse health services is people needing hospitalisation from this thing, not people turning up to get checked out of paranoia.

The priority has to be slowing this down as far as possible. And if that means travel restrictions and cancelling events, then so be it.

Originally Posted by: NickR 

Again, Taiwan is the gold standard when it comes to seeing what can be done to inhibit the spread of a novel viral contagion:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/taiwan-reins-spread-coronavirus-countries-stumble-200307034353325.html

Too late by far now, but if only our authorities had shown the same foresight as those in Taiwan.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

But aint gonna happen for reasons I explained. Boris and Trump are putting short term popularity ahead of the national interest

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 

I'm going to go against the consensus here. I'd read this and I think it's a load of lovely-sounded rhetoric that is off the mark and dangerously so.

What will collapse health services is people needing hospitalisation from this thing, not people turning up to get checked out of paranoia.

The priority has to be slowing this down as far as possible. And if that means travel restrictions and cancelling events, then so be it.

Sorry, but that article is pretty-prose, self-help book-style fluff.

Originally Posted by: NickR 

2) close pubs temporarily

.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Does the point about (and I know I'm expanding on it here) self-entitled people demanding treatment for what are non-life threatening symptoms not strike a chord with you?

Yes, there's going to potentially be a lot of people with underlying conditions or who are elderly who will be at greater risk, and these should be closely monitored. But my fear is that the NHS will be brought o its knees by a combination of prissy middle-aged & middle-class people with overblown senses of entitlement and sharp elbows, along with *less intelligent people* who think they've got zombie plague and loudly demand treatment.

It's the same selfish mentality that has seen individuals buying-up all the toilet role or hand gel in a shop and everyone else go f*ck themselves.

As I've said, the vast majority of people will get ill to a degree varying from 'mild cold/chest infection' to 'knocked for six with something akin to proper flu/severe chest infection'. But these people will get better after a few days/couple of weeks. And almost all won't need hospitalisation.

Yet how many will insist on hospital treatment 'just to be on the safe side'?

Meanwhile, those at high risk and who do need hospital treatment will struggle to get that treatment due to hospitals being full of people who don't really need hospital treatment.

In some regard, I can understand why people will demand hospital treatment if confirmed to have Covid-19. The media has been shipping up the hysteria about this for weeks, amplified by the drama-queen dickheadery of social media and overreactions of some authorities around the world. It's created a sense of impending doom and fear that really isn't justified.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Most have been closing permanently in recent years 

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Good point. Beast take note!

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze