The biggest scandal, as Justin said, is leaving many of front line NHS staff unprotected. They had so much time to prepare for this. 

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

I thought the minister who said the test kits would be available on Amazon next week was speaking twaddle. Just wanted to give him / her (can't remember who it was) the benefit of the doubt. They really should be better informed about the basics. 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

 not really. Every country is chasing the same kit at the same time and face similar shortages. 

the scandal is that much of the developed world has offshored so much of their strategically important supply chains in the first place. I hope the reversal of this is one of the positive things to come out of this crisis. 

Originally Posted by: bowser 

I'm afraid we are witnessing Johnson doing what he always does. Likes to put a positive bright spin on everything but basically just lies. Hancock has "I am lying" written all over his face when he speaks. Last week he said the test kits were being delivered and there would be 25,000 test per day. Johnson today said soon to be 25,000 and then 250,000 ! He then said there had been 97,000 altogether so far which he claims is more than most Countries in Europe. Rubbish! They are just making up these numbers. Same as Brexit, all wishful thinking and no delivery. Keep saying it enough and like Trump the plebs will support you. The doctors and NHS workers know it's not true though. 

Originally Posted by: fairweather 

I'm afraid we are witnessing Johnson doing what he always does. Likes to put a positive bright spin on everything but basically just lies. Hancock has "I am lying" written all over his face when he speaks. Last week he said the test kits were being delivered and there would be 25,000 test per day. Johnson today said soon to be 25,000 and then 250,000 ! He then said there had been 97,000 altogether so far which he claims is more than most Countries in Europe. Rubbish! They are just making up these numbers. Same as Brexit, all wishful thinking and no delivery. Keep saying it enough and like Trump the plebs will support you. The doctors and NHS workers know it's not true though. 

Originally Posted by: fairweather 

Perfectly put.

He's a charlatan, a snake oil salesman, an egomaniac.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

not really. Every country is chasing the same kit at the same time and face similar shortages. 

the scandal is that much of the developed world has offshored so much of their strategically important supply chains in the first place. I hope the reversal of this is one of the positive things to come out of this crisis. 

Originally Posted by: bowser 

 I thought the minister who said the test kits would be available on Amazon next week was speaking twaddle. Just wanted to give him / her (can't remember who it was) the benefit of the doubt. They really should be better informed about the basics. 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Point well made Bowser - Spain in particular is having enormous problems securing personal protection equipment for its essential workers, as is France.

One thing we need to learn in future is to onshore production of critical stuff as you say.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

They have failed on communication right from the start:

• we'll make updates every other day, only to reconsider quickly


• leaking to journos that we'll be testing 10k around the 10th of March (more than 2 weeks ago)


• the herd immunity shambles (it is our plan on Friday, it's not our plan on the following day, you have mis-understood)


• the erratic and confusing reporting scheme and the lack of data on hospital and ICU admissions


• The shambles about social distancing over the last 3 weeks (and I won't mention Johnson's shambles about shaking everyone's hands in the hospital in early march or seeing his mother on mother's day etc.

Basically we went against WHO recommendations on both testing and tracing and communications.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

And you're happy to pay higher taxes for that, yes?

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 

Spot on. Not to mention the complete shambles around this lockdown and massive confusion around key workers. That video of the construction site today was outrageous. The failure of minister after minister to not adequately address real life points has been nothing short of disgraceful.

We can’t even get the daily updates standardised. It’s not almost 8pm and no update. How do other countries manage to report on time?

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

People love to criticise government efforts in this country, so I can only imagine what people would be saying if our government were doing the same as Sweden:

https://www.ft.com/content/31de03b8-6dbc-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

"Sweden has become an international outlier in its response to the deadly coronavirus outbreak by keeping schools open and adopting few other restrictions, as the Scandinavian nation embarks on what one health expert called a “huge experiment”. Since the UK went into lockdown on Monday evening, Sweden is the largest European country with the fewest limits on where people can go and what they can do. Schools for children up to the age of 16 remain open, many people continue to go to work and packed commuter trains and buses were reported this week in the capital, Stockholm. “Clearly, Sweden stands out at the moment,” said Carl Bildt, the former prime minister. Swedish authorities have banned public gatherings of more than 500 people, closed universities and higher education colleges, and advised workers to stay at home if possible. Authorities on Tuesday ordered restaurants and bars only to serve people at tables rather than at the bar. Local media have been full of stories of thousands of people gathering at Swedish ski resorts, which until Saturday kept their nightlife open. The virus has previously spread easily in mountain resorts in Austria and Italy.

..."

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

 Spot on. Not to mention the complete shambles around this lockdown and massive confusion around key workers. That video of the construction site today was outrageous. The failure of minister after minister to not adequately address real life points has been nothing short of disgraceful.

We can’t even get the daily updates standardised. It’s not almost 8pm and no update. How do other countries manage to report on time?

Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 

People love to criticise government efforts in this country, so I can only imagine what people would be saying if our government were doing the same as Sweden:

https://www.ft.com/content/31de03b8-6dbc-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

"Sweden has become an international outlier in its response to the deadly coronavirus outbreak by keeping schools open and adopting few other restrictions, as the Scandinavian nation embarks on what one health expert called a “huge experiment”. Since the UK went into lockdown on Monday evening, Sweden is the largest European country with the fewest limits on where people can go and what they can do. Schools for children up to the age of 16 remain open, many people continue to go to work and packed commuter trains and buses were reported this week in the capital, Stockholm. “Clearly, Sweden stands out at the moment,” said Carl Bildt, the former prime minister. Swedish authorities have banned public gatherings of more than 500 people, closed universities and higher education colleges, and advised workers to stay at home if possible. Authorities on Tuesday ordered restaurants and bars only to serve people at tables rather than at the bar. Local media have been full of stories of thousands of people gathering at Swedish ski resorts, which until Saturday kept their nightlife open. The virus has previously spread easily in mountain resorts in Austria and Italy.

..."

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

 So what is your view about Sweden's approach? - they are clearly prioritising the economy:

"Johan Carlson, head of Sweden’s public health agency, last week defended Sweden’s approach, saying the country “cannot take draconian measures that have a limited impact on the epidemic but knock out the functions of society”."

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

People criticise our government for valid reasons including:

1) The failure to order social distancing in time to save many lives. The dicking around with herd immunity when anybody with half a brain could see it would condemn many thousands to premature death

2) The absolute disgrace over PPE for NHS staff (see my post earlier in the day about a friend of ours cancelling her chemo because staff at QEQM in Margate have not been issued with PPE. This is ongoing and is unforgivable

We know that you will defend a Tory govt no matter what, Richard. But the plain truth is that while Johnson exhorts us to 'protect the NHS' he and his party have spent the better part of 40 years undermining it.

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

Come off it Justin, that is rubbish.

This is the struggle of a generation - nobody actually knows how it will play out or what the best approach is. Every country is struggling in its own way - Italy/Spain/France - PPE is now making its way to the frontline in volume, but there will always be localities with supply issues for all kinds of logistical reasons.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Point well made Bowser - Spain in particular is having enormous problems securing personal protection equipment for its essential workers, as is France.

One thing we need to learn in future is to onshore production of critical stuff as you say.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum