Ridiculous! Paranoia and nationalism don't come into it - not believing the output of a secretive dictatorship is not "paranoia".

The WHO were barred from the infected regions for weeks. What is the matter with you Xioni? On this topic, you have taken leave of your senses.

P.S. No doubt you also believe that North Korea has had no cases at all.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

There is no way the official stats for China could be so out of line with experience of this everywhere else.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

What do you mean? China's stats are worse than any other Asian country.

You are being so ridiculous on this subject and it's typical of your narrow mindset. Just 2 weeks ago you were disputing the lack of new infections outside Hubei and the restart of their economy. Perhaps NASA's satellites which keep showing air pollution gradually increasing again are also part of the propaganda?

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

You keep using diversion, deflection and irrelevancies.

Who is claiming that China has not contained the outbreak? Who is saying that Chinese scientists and medics have done a bad job?

The only thing the vast majority are saying, is that they don't trust the statistics for China and with very good reason.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

 You keep using diversion, deflection and irrelevancies.

Who is claiming that China has not contained the outbreak? Who is saying that Chinese scientists and medics have done a bad job?

The only thing the vast majority are saying, is that they don't trust the statistics for China and with very good reason.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 

Fist of all, you are getting your numbers wrong. China implemented a strict lockdown of Wuhan 28 days after they identified their first official case. We implemented a much less strict lockdown 54 days after our first official case.

This is getting very tiring anyway, I cannot be very confident that China's numbers are accurate, however the WHO experts on the ground were and I can only go with this.

Anything else is paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Are you all right? You said:

"There is no way the official stats for China could be so out of line with experience of this everywhere else."

And I am telling you China did much worse than any other Asian country, so you are getting all confused again. 

Final word on this as it must be really tiring for everyone: having a healthy scepticism for China's figures is one thing and perhaps it's a good thing. Disputing everything and making so much noise every time a plot shows data from China is unhealthy and hysterical.

Grow up (even in your age).

Originally Posted by: xioni2 

Funnily enough, North Korea is one place which might actually be virus free. After all, they adopted your closed borders approach. Admittedly, they did this at some point in the 1950's. No doubt, North Korean propaganda will say that this goes to show just how prescient the Kim clan is

Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 

I'm not hysterical, I'm pointing out that your post is incorrect. Your constructive suggestions so far have been that we should have closed our borders two weeks ago and that we cannot destroy the economy to save a few tens of thousands of vulnerable people.

Most of our posts - some of mine included - are of the "I wouldn't start from here" variety. Yours are probably the best examples of this mindset.

So, in the spirit of constructive suggestion, here are my ideas for dealing with this disaster going forward:

1) The UK lockdown needs to be extended and tightened. Construction, building sites and all non-essential economic activities must be shut down for the duration. That means no 'jobbing' kitchen fitters out at work (at our neighbour's house, for instance), no carpenters on site doing a bit of tidying up, no engineering aside from that directly connected with the fight against the virus

2) HMG must immediately implement a debt amnesty and holiday. That means no mortgage, no or credit card repayments for anybody. It also means that there must be no deferral of interest on these debts - the lost interest would simply be cancelled when payments resume

3) All utility bills must be suspended for the duration of the crisis

4) The nationalisation of the entire economy should be extended so that all employed and self-employed people receive govt payments directly into their accounts. This should take the form of a basic wage for the duration of the crisis

5) All private health labs must be coopted into a massively expanded testing regime. All NHS staff - frontline or not - must be tested and the maximum effort must be made to complete this process within seven days

6) No doctor or nurse to work without full PPE

7) Police and army checkpoints to be used to ensure the lockdown is adhered to. Those who are proven to have breached the lockdown must face substantial prison sentences

8) A food drop (not the pathetic effort made by HMG so far) to be made every week to every vulnerable person in this country to ensure that they are shielded from the virus

9) Testing to begin on the general population as soon as NHS testing is sufficiently advanced. This can be done using surgery lists to start with. Only then can we start building an exit strategy

10) Full track and trace of the infected to be resumed

11) Borders closed and remain closed until infections are back down to single digits each day

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

I don't question the ability of Chinese scientists. I question the regime and much of the communication coming out of it. I also question the relationship between the regime and the top levels of the WHO.

Originally Posted by: bowser 

Where is that Italy quote from? It doesn’t seem to be in the story you linked. 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

As pointed out, your bolded quote isn't in the attached link

Also, using your logic, you can argue hiv/aids doesn't kill anyone, it's the infections it allows to run riot which do that.

Originally Posted by: noodle doodle 

Singer Adam Schlesinger, of Fountains of Wayne, dead at 52 of coronavirus

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I've just read that the UK government is refusing to put any ministers in front of the media this morning. Does anyone know why that is? Are we expecting a big announcement today? 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Morgan is of course correct.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Who is 'the vast majority' and what is the 'very good reason'?

Originally Posted by: Justin W 

This is the most accurate and useful international comparison chart I've yet seen.  Anyone who thinks "were doing ok" in a "jolly it along " sort of way needs to spend a few minutes studying the chart and accept that out feck-wittery infested cabinet have made an almighty [censored]up of dealing with this since January.  Herd Immunity strategy led to utter complacency. 

Knowing we have thrown away our capacity to manufacture critical chemicals years ago, we should have made the effort as many civilised developed advanced nations did, and, knowing this epidemic was inevitably going to spread - that's what viruses do - and bought up reagents and supplies of PPE during January and February and the first half of March.

But no, out imbelic cretinous cavalier; lets put our shares our profit; our Brexit; our bonging of Big Ben; our brave new government power grabbing from itself, before the health of the British people.

Im so angry that thousands of NHS staff are effectively cannon fodder, a bit like the scientists and workers sent in post Chernobyl.  Im angry that our older (though not exclusively) folk are being cut down, thanks to the reckless idiots in charge.

There has to be a reckoning.  These nasty selfish little barstards need to be held to account. 

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

I've just read that the UK government is refusing to put any ministers in front of the media this morning. Does anyone know why that is? Are we expecting a big announcement today? 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

The Chinese doctor that tried to alert people to the existence of another SARS flagged it up in late December and he had already been working on patients with the symptoms for some days. They locked down Wuhan on 23 January, so the virus had been spreading for at least 45 days.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

On the other hand, to keep quoting data from China as any basis for safe comparison is unhealthy, ill-advised and flawed.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White