Well. I hold the Tory government responsible for the deaths of thousands who need not have died if the PPE and tests and lockdown had been done in a way like Germany, South Korea, NZ, Aus.  

Little wonder they hide behind rhetoric and evading questions. The weight of guilt will cripple them all eventually.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

I will not defend the government unquestioningly because mistakes have been made.

All I would say is that the options available were never binary, as you and others seem to want to suggest. Every policy action has a range of consequences and at the time clearly the scientists and other experts thought they had got the balance right in their advice.

Plus, it is way too early to be making judgments. This is going to run on for at least a year, maybe more, maybe forever. In that context shouldn't we wait and see the long-term outcomes? Hokkaido in Japan has just gone back into lockdown again; Singapore has had to impose tight restrictions. What you're doing is like predicting the result of the football match after a few minutes of the 90.  

Isn't it possible, indeed probable, that every country ends up in much the same place, just via different routes?

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

I've made the point a few times now that we have been blessed to live in a period when advances in healthcare, medical and pharmaceutical sciences and public health have allowed us to live pretty much free of diseases that used to be endemic and feared.

We have to hope that a vaccine will become available. If people can be reinfected then that might require an annual vaccination or even, for vulnerable people, perhaps six-monthly vaccinations.  

If there is no effective vaccine then we're looking at quite a lot of deaths in the next 1-2 years and a permanent lowering of life expectancy because the current restrictions cannot go on indefinitely.

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

It's also quite possible that the virus will mutate into something that's considerably less dangerous within a year or two, which is what likely led to the abrupt end of the Spanish flu pandemic. We just don't know.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Very true. Alternatively it may remain in the human body at low levels slowly destroying the immune system before moving in for the kill! (Pessimistic hat on)

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Very true. Alternatively it may remain in the human body at low levels slowly destroying the immune system before moving in for the kill! (Pessimistic hat on)

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

We certainly should. There's no shortage of brain power in the UK! The problems (IMHO and I know others strongly disagree) are to do with the centralised structure of the NHS. I also would question the quality of their IT departments in general. I'm not making a blanket generalisation as I'm sure they have some outstanding people. 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

I have to say I think that's highly improbable, Brian.  Unless you have information that I don't the virus doesn't attack the body like that.  Indeed the opposite is the case, if I understand it: the immune system goes into overdrive to fight the virus and that causes the complications (lung damage).

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Suggestions from US and China that it attacks T cells like HIV. See 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200413/Novel-coronavirus-attacks-and-destroys-T-cells-just-like-HIV.aspx

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

It's also quite possible that the virus will mutate into something that's considerably less dangerous within a year or two, which is what likely led to the abrupt end of the Spanish flu pandemic. We just don't know.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

From the BBC ticker:
"Sacked Pakistani workers left stranded in Gulf
Thousands of Pakistanis working in Gulf states have appealed to their government to fly them home, after they lost their jobs due to the pandemic.
At least 11,000 Pakistani workers, possibly many more, have been sacked over the past few days and can't return home because of restrictions. Some say they are running out of food and money.
Pakistan International Airlines is flying home 1,800 Pakistanis on Tuesday, out of about 40,000 who will be repatriated, mostly from the Middle East. They include 410 in the UAE, and 270 in Thailand and Japan, plus 400 pligrims in Saudi Arabia.
The numbers of foreign workers employed in the Gulf are vast. More than nine million Pakistanis, and millions of others from around Asia, are employed there. Pakistani workers abroad sent home more than $20bn last year and remittances are crucial to the country's economy".

While the world has problems on its own doorsteps, I really fear for these people. We returned home from Dubai on 7th March. Our resort seemed fairly quiet and staff there said it was because there were no chinese. What came over on our stay was the cheap Asian labour working on construction sites or in the hotels. They were getting a pittance compared to the amounts being spent by visitors, they could not really afford the cost of living. We learnt that employers there confiscated their passports, and were only allowed to return home if it was extremely urgent. The Asian workers usually worked for ten months, and returned home for 2.
I just hope the UAE are looking after these people as they run out of food and money, or there will be another catastrophe waiting in the wings.

Originally Posted by: Phil G 

This is an example of a terrifying post (see the FA). :D 

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 

Suggestions from US and China that it attacks T cells like HIV. See 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200413/Novel-coronavirus-attacks-and-destroys-T-cells-just-like-HIV.aspx

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Suggestions from US and China that it attacks T cells like HIV. See 

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20200413/Novel-coronavirus-attacks-and-destroys-T-cells-just-like-HIV.aspx

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

This is an example of a terrifying post (see the FA). :D 

Originally Posted by: Joe Bloggs 

I don't think it's that worrying if you look at the article?

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Surely in theory if you had a health service that could cope and you isolated elderly and vulnerable patients Herd Immunity would be the quickest way out. I do not see how you come out of lockdown if the virus in its present form is still about. Would there not be pockets of cases carrying on till a fully reliable vaccine is found?

Originally Posted by: bledur 

Have you read the actual study? https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0305-x 

I am not sure how the article relates to the findings of the study and does little but raise anxiety. The study’s authors do not come to the same conclusion as the nurse who wrote that discussion in news-medical.

Originally Posted by: doctormog