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The Beast from the East
28 April 2020 10:13:48


 


You go and volunteer then as you think we should give young people a good old dose of what could potentially kill them! Or perhaps you could administer the injections to avoid others having to carry that guilt?


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


I would gladly do it they paid enough! So would others. Just sign a disclaimer


Or why not give it to violent prisoners? Im sure the Chinese scientists are and will win the race to the vaccine as a result, and get billions in revenue for the Chinese govt


 

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
speckledjim
28 April 2020 10:16:05


How are Sweden and Holland getting on? No one really mentions the Dutch but as far as I'm aware their lockdown is a lot less strict than ours and they have a similar population density to England.


Originally Posted by: Northern Sky 


Not as many deaths as us but Sweden isn’t doing as good as its Scandinavian neighbours which I guess is no surprise considering their lack of lockdown.

Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
The Beast from the East
28 April 2020 10:17:14

"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
xioni2
28 April 2020 10:20:48


 it's so easy to blame the govt. They are not perfect but boy are they an easy target for the boo boys, it's like watching a gang of bullies and cowards surround one entity.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


That comment is completely out of order.


 

Brian Gaze
28 April 2020 10:21:06


How are Sweden and Holland getting on? No one really mentions the Dutch but as far as I'm aware their lockdown is a lot less strict than ours and they have a similar population density to England.


Originally Posted by: Northern Sky 


Their head honcho reckons "herd immunity" and golden days are in sight. I think he'll be shown to be terribly wrong but as ever time will tell. This from the Torygraph.


Stockholm closes some pubs for breaking social distancing rules in sign of coronavirus crackdown


Sweden is one of the only European countries to remain at least partially open - but that may be about to change


Stockholm city authorities have ordered five popular pubs and restaurants to close for breaking coronavirus social distancing regulations, in the first sign of a stricter approach to coronavirus control.


...


The closures came as Sweden's statistics agency reported that the country in the second week of April witnessed its highest death rate since the turn of this century, underlining the price it has paid for its decision not to impose a lockdown.


Sweden has so far reported 2,274 coronavirus deaths, putting its per capita death rate due to the pandemic at more than triple that of neighbouring Denmark and nearly six times that of Norway and Finland, all of which put in place heavier restrictions.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/27/stockholm-closes-pubs-breaking-social-distancing-rules-sign/


 

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
xioni2
28 April 2020 10:22:26


All deaths going through the roof and deviating massively from the norm. Should be another nail in the coffin for those who think this was prevalent in December and January in the UK.


 

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


That was even worse than the FT estimate, we have probably now more than 50,000 deaths.

fairweather
28 April 2020 10:26:15


Never heard of this chap but he gets my UK (despite having a German sounding name) "the voice of reason" award:


 


A clear understanding of immunity is needed, before lockdown measures can be removed, warns professor


Danny Altmann, Professor of Immunology at Imperial College London, has told the Commons Science and Technology Committee he would be "terribly worried" about lifting lockdown measures with no or limited knowledge of the population's immunity against coronavirus.


He said: "As an immunologist and knowing how desperately lethal this virus can be, I'd be very worried about any assumptions on those grounds - terribly worried."


"Without really good antibody testing and seroprevalence in the population, we're flying blind."


"We haven't got a clue who's had it, how many have had it, where they've had it, or where we stand for the future for second waves, so I can't emphasise sufficiently how desperately we need that data and how widely we need that data."


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-uk-tests-nhs-vaccine-lockdown-covid-19-update/


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Definitely where we are, but we are stuck in that situation aren't we unless everybody or a high percentage are tested.

S.Essex, 42m ASL
westv
28 April 2020 10:31:08


 


Agree, but this has been a process that began decades ago, when the concept of society and community was rubbished by both govt and media, and individualism and greed were actively encouraged


Harry Enfield's "loadsa money" character, Del Boy, Alan B'stard etc all a reflection of how things changed in the 80s


We have been gaslit by the press barons for decades to hate each other and the concept of solidarity


As you say, its across the class divide, its just the chavs are more open about it, the gammon mutter under their breath


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I do find it amusing that people when people seem to imply that prior to 1979 society was some kind of utopian ideal where everybody cared for each other and selfishness was a word that just didn't exist.

At least it will be mild!
fairweather
28 April 2020 10:32:12


 


I would gladly do it they paid enough! 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I think it was about 80 pints worth to you 

S.Essex, 42m ASL
xioni2
28 April 2020 10:33:21

If people are stupid or blinkered enough not to see that the govt has made a very difficult situation even worse, then that's their problem. Relatively to stage of the epidemic, the UK has one of the slowest and most inadequate responses in the world and we are paying the price. People can keep making excuses for this and keep deluding themselves, but the numbers are getting more and more damning. 


While no 2 countries are the same, it's also laughable to keep saying that every country which has so far dealt with this successfully is somehow a special case:


Singapore? Special case - small densely populated island city


South Korea? Their outbreak was concentrated


Tawain? Hong Kong? New Zealand? Greece? Australia? Denmark? Norway? Slovenia? Slovakia? Serbia? Poland? Croatia? Finland? Czechia?  Hungary? Estonia? 


Ludicrous stuff.


 

fairweather
28 April 2020 10:36:14


 


I do find it amusing that people when people seem to imply that prior to 1979 society was some kind of utopian ideal where everybody cared for each other and selfishness was a word that just didn't exist.


Originally Posted by: westv 


From that point of view it was. It was a damn site better in my first 30 years without any shadow of doubt. 

S.Essex, 42m ASL
Gandalf The White
28 April 2020 10:36:43


 


Has there been any research at all into the possibility that other Corona viruses could also give temporary immunity from Covid 19 or is this a complete non-starter? 


Originally Posted by: Lionel Hutz 


I've seen commentary that suggested the opposite, i.e. That prior exposure to certain strains could make the response to a SARS-Cov2 infection worse because the immune response actually helps the virus because the antibodies adhere to the virus without disabling it, thus making it more likely to adhere to cell walls.


But in general I thought the issue was the surface structure of the virus; that's what the immune system 'recognises'. If the surface is (sufficiently) different then you don't have immunity.

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gooner
28 April 2020 10:40:18




Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Probably because of the accommodation charge 

Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gandalf The White
28 April 2020 10:40:21


 


I do find it amusing that people when people seem to imply that prior to 1979 society was some kind of utopian ideal where everybody cared for each other and selfishness was a word that just didn't exist.


Originally Posted by: westv 


Agreed. I don't think there's much dispute that there was a greater focus on the individual and less on 'society' (remember the infamous Thatcher quote).  But IMO that only changed the degree of selfishness, nothing more.  You can't just ignore the general trends in society as a whole and focus on just one alleged trigger.


 

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


xioni2
28 April 2020 10:41:15

At yesterday's WHO press conference, it was mentioned that current antibody tests have an accuracy of of only 30-80%. They kept mentioning that for widespread use of these tests, they need to have very high accuracy (detecting antibodies to this virus) and very high specificity (not to react to antibodies of other corona viruses or cold viruses).


They did add though that a lot of research and investment is currently ongoing and they expect better antibody tests to become available in the next few months.


 

Gandalf The White
28 April 2020 10:43:17


 


Probably because of the accommodation charge 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Really? Not the rate of pay or the back-breaking hard work or being outside in all weathers?


Or not being able to speak the local language (Romanian) 😉

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Hippydave
28 April 2020 10:44:48

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/20/air-pollution-may-be-key-contributor-to-covid-19-deaths-study?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR1GUkmM941S0WAda3246B7Nhu9rrKFblCLUG6T23Hjp5b4Z3hbvIFRmRrQ 


Apologies if that has already been posted.


I can't decide whether it's an interesting read or an example of the media latching on to any bit of research in the rush to generate headlines etc.


A clear counter argument to the pollution theory is that they're all densely populated areas so of course number of cases and deaths will be concentrated there.


What would be interesting is to see the research once it's finished and peer reviewed, if it ever gets to that point. Personally I think our lack of action on air pollution, which we know causes a lot of health issues and excess deaths, is pretty shameful - if there is a causal link maybe that'll be enough for some more serious efforts at reducing it.


 

Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Gavin D
28 April 2020 10:45:32

Regional data for new cases yesterday in England


The 7 English regions 



  • London +225 (0.9%) 23,833

  • Midlands +385 (2.1%) 18,360

  • North West +394 (2.3%) 17,483

  • North East and Yorkshire +470 (2.9%) 16,292

  • South East +318 (2.0%) 16,128

  • East of England +244 (2.5%) 9,569

  • South West +105 (1.8%) 5,902


The 10 local areas with the highest cases



  1. Kent +47 (1.5%) 3,232

  2. Birmingham +46 (1.7%) 2,705

  3. Hampshire +47 (1.8%) 2,624

  4. Lancashire +68 (2.6%) 2,585

  5. Surrey +53 (2.2%) 2,434

  6. Essex +76 (3.3%) 2,320

  7. Hertfordshire +40 (1.9%) 2,141

  8. Sheffield +24 (1.2%) 1,952

  9. Cumbria +37 (2.1%) 1,734

  10. Staffordshire +35 (2.2%) 1,595


The 10 local areas with the lowest cases



  1. Rutland 19 - No change

  2. Isle of Wight +2 (1.9%) 103

  3. North East Lincolnshire +3 (2.3%) 128

  4. Hartlepool +6 (3.6%) 165

  5. Peterborough +1 (0.5%) 190

  6. Torbay +17 (8.5%) 199

  7. Bracknell Forest +9 (4.5%) 200

  8. Bath and North East Somerset 201 - No change

  9. North Somerset +5 (2.4%) 210

  10. Telford and Wrekin +3 (1.3%) 225

Maunder Minimum
28 April 2020 10:45:34


If people are stupid or blinkered enough not to see that the govt has made a very difficult situation even worse, then that's their problem. Relatively to stage of the epidemic, the UK has one of the slowest and most inadequate responses in the world and we are paying the price. People can keep making excuses for this and keep deluding themselves, but the numbers are getting more and more damning. 


While no 2 countries are the same, it's also laughable to keep saying that every country which has so far dealt with this successfully is somehow a special case:


Singapore? Special case - small densely populated island city


South Korea? Their outbreak was concentrated


Tawain? Hong Kong? New Zealand? Greece? Australia? Denmark? Norway? Slovenia? Slovakia? Serbia? Poland? Croatia? Finland? Czechia?  Hungary? Estonia? 


Ludicrous stuff.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


You have to look for comparable countries - those are Italy, Spain, France and Germany. Germany is the outlier in the list of comparable countries, whereas the UK appears to have been on a similar trajectory to the others.


 

New world order coming.
Gandalf The White
28 April 2020 10:47:38


At yesterday's WHO press conference, it was mentioned that current antibody tests have an accuracy of of only 30-80%. They kept mentioning that for widespread use of these tests, they need to have very high accuracy (detecting antibodies to this virus) and very high specificity (not to react to antibodies of other corona viruses or cold viruses).


They did add though that a lot of research and investment is currently ongoing and they expect better antibody tests to become available in the next few months.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Another failure by the Chinese, and the inevitable defence by China.  India returning Test kits that don't work.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-52451455


 


It occurred to me that China's economy is doing very nicely out of this pandemic, supplying all manner of stuff to combat a virus that they should have contained in the first place.

Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Justin W
28 April 2020 10:48:27


 


Agree totally with this. Yes, certain things could and still should be done better but anyone in power now is on a hiding to nothing with a lot of issues being legacy stuff. There are those flouting the rules now, there are the ones who created this thing in the first place, and I have been thoroughly underwhelmed by their response not taking responsibility on what their country has unleashed on the world. No remorse on hundreds of thousands dead and only becoming vocal if someone challenges their business ventures.


it's so easy to blame the govt. They are not perfect but boy are they an easy target for the boo boys, it's like watching a gang of bullies and cowards surround one entity.


As Roger says we voted them in so we can vote them out, but at this time they don't need 'clever dickies' with the supreme knowledge of hindsight telling them what they should have done. At this time we need to stick with our people, not gang up on them like cowardly bullies because let's face it they are in a no win situation.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Is your surname ‘Space’?


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Lionel Hutz
28 April 2020 10:50:23


 


I've seen commentary that suggested the opposite, i.e. That prior exposure to certain strains could make the response to a SARS-Cov2 infection worse because the immune response actually helps the virus because the antibodies adhere to the virus without disabling it, thus making it more likely to adhere to cell walls.


But in general I thought the issue was the surface structure of the virus; that's what the immune system 'recognises'. If the surface is (sufficiently) different then you don't have immunity.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Thanks. The commentary in your first paragraph seems counter intuitive to me - which doesn't mean that it's incorrect, of course.   

Lionel Hutz
Nr.Waterford , S E Ireland
68m ASL



Justin W
28 April 2020 10:54:45


If people are stupid or blinkered enough not to see that the govt has made a very difficult situation even worse, then that's their problem. Relatively to stage of the epidemic, the UK has one of the slowest and most inadequate responses in the world and we are paying the price. People can keep making excuses for this and keep deluding themselves, but the numbers are getting more and more damning. 


While no 2 countries are the same, it's also laughable to keep saying that every country which has so far dealt with this successfully is somehow a special case:


Singapore? Special case - small densely populated island city


South Korea? Their outbreak was concentrated


Tawain? Hong Kong? New Zealand? Greece? Australia? Denmark? Norway? Slovenia? Slovakia? Serbia? Poland? Croatia? Finland? Czechia?  Hungary? Estonia? 


Ludicrous stuff.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Excellent post. No matter what Maunder says, the UK had the opportunity early on when it was isolating cases successfully to introduce social restrictions in the way New Zealand and South Korea did. But Johnson instead chose to be completely cavalier, allowing large events to continue and boasting about continuing to shake hands. HMG’s response has been the total catastrophe which many of us were predicting as far back as early February.


I stand by my forecast of between 100,000 and 200,000 UK deaths.

Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
NickR
28 April 2020 11:01:11


If people are stupid or blinkered enough not to see that the govt has made a very difficult situation even worse, then that's their problem. Relatively to stage of the epidemic, the UK has one of the slowest and most inadequate responses in the world and we are paying the price. People can keep making excuses for this and keep deluding themselves, but the numbers are getting more and more damning. 


While no 2 countries are the same, it's also laughable to keep saying that every country which has so far dealt with this successfully is somehow a special case:


Singapore? Special case - small densely populated island city


South Korea? Their outbreak was concentrated


Tawain? Hong Kong? New Zealand? Greece? Australia? Denmark? Norway? Slovenia? Slovakia? Serbia? Poland? Croatia? Finland? Czechia?  Hungary? Estonia? 


Ludicrous stuff.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Spot on. Add Portugal to that list too.

Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Phil G
28 April 2020 11:02:34


If people are stupid or blinkered enough not to see that the govt has made a very difficult situation even worse, then that's their problem. Relatively to stage of the epidemic, the UK has one of the slowest and most inadequate responses in the world and we are paying the price. People can keep making excuses for this and keep deluding themselves, but the numbers are getting more and more damning. 


While no 2 countries are the same, it's also laughable to keep saying that every country which has so far dealt with this successfully is somehow a special case:


Singapore? Special case - small densely populated island city


South Korea? Their outbreak was concentrated


Tawain? Hong Kong? New Zealand? Greece? Australia? Denmark? Norway? Slovenia? Slovakia? Serbia? Poland? Croatia? Finland? Czechia?  Hungary? Estonia? 


Ludicrous stuff.


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


So you say my comment about people ganging up like bullies is completely out of order, then in your next post you call me or other people if they agree "stupid". Beggars belief! Seems there is one law for one and one for the other.


If you also read I did say the govt had been caught with their pants down as well. But whatever they do they are in a no win situation. I expect our numbers will be similar to a few other european countries, but not the worst.


Our unpreparedness is a legacy thing if you read Roger's great post from earlier. Truth is even with a Labour govt in, we would still be having these same type of conversations now. Even with the benefit of hindsight and seeing how this nightmare is playing out, it's so early doors we don't know what the final outcomes will be yet.


 

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