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Quantum
30 April 2020 08:59:17


 


Morning Q.


In any society the outsider and underdog gets a bad deal, whoever they are. Can you envisage a society which accepts wholeheartedly the duty of the privileged in-group to look after the well being of the less-privileged? Answer: a bit?


R.


Originally Posted by: Roger Parsons 


I don't accept this kind of argument at all. If you want to prioritize vulnerable groups fine, vulnerable individuals; even better. But a group that society arbitarily deems the underdog? No.

2024/2025 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 3 days with snow/sleet falling
18/11 (-6), 19/11 (-6), 23/11 (-2)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)
2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.
18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)
2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp): Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Brian Gaze
30 April 2020 08:59:32


Drove to Whitstable yesterday to leave groceries outside my mother-in-law’s front door. Even though I’ve seen increasing traffic levels, I was surprised by the number of cars on the A299. The volume was about 80% of normal, I reckon.

Most of the drivers and passengers I observed were older - many of them clearly over 70. And that is my experience: the older people are the ones who are more likely to not care about the lockdown or the risk.

If, as Xioni says, the aim is to keep deaths to a minimum, I do wonder why all these elderly people round here appear not to give a stuff. Some of our neighbours think the whole thing is a big joke. It makes me angry, I have to say. Why am I and many others sacrificing business and livelihood for people who don’t appear to give a damn? For them, it is business as usual.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


It is becoming a total shambles. Buckland has apparently said it may not be possible to lift the lockdown next week. However, the government is making little effort to stop increasing levels of traffic and it appears to be encouraging the resumption of more economic activity. 

Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
NickR
30 April 2020 08:59:53


 


Yes, we could have done but our decision makers made some poor choices. Were they badly advised or did they ignore some of the guidance/science?


I just don't think some of those measures could have been put in place here, or not as effectively. The circumstances of the the U.K. are very different to most of the others you cite, aren't they?  I am not making excuses, by the way, but trying to analyse rather than just condemn without qualification.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


But I asked WHY we couldn't do what SK, NZ, Portugal, Greece, etc. have done. All I ever get is statements like the one in bold. That's not an answer, certainly not without actual details and reasoning.

Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Retron
30 April 2020 09:01:08


 


It is becoming a total shambles. Buckland has apparently said it may not be possible to lift the lockdown next week. However, the government is making little effort to stop increasing levels of traffic and it appears to be encouraging the resumption of more economic activity. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


It does seem a policy of a softly-softly erosion is in place, especially when some police forces have gone on record saying there's no point in enforcing it if people can go to B&Q and buy non-essentials.


I suspect that will only change when R0 creeps up above 1.0 again...

Leysdown, north Kent
Phil G
30 April 2020 09:01:19


Dr Philip Lee was on LBC this morng:


Former Tory MP and doctor: Utter nonsense to call UK's coronavirus response a "success"


A doctor and former Conservative MP has told LBC that the UK's governance has failed spectacularly over the response to Covid-19.


Dr Phillip Lee is uniquely qualified to discuss the government response, having served as a Conservative Minister as well as a doctor.


He told Nick Ferrari that there have been a lot of unnecessary deaths due to the coronavirus pandemic and questioned why the primary goal of the government wasn't to reduce the loss of life.

He said: "The scale of unnecessary loss of life in this country is unacceptable. What angers me most is we could have done so much better.


https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/tory-mp-doctor-nonsense-uk-coronavirus-success/


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


So much surmising, hindsight, certain strategies are right, even though we are nowhere near the end of this. What a mess. What angers me....... What is the role of the funded WHO? Countries seem to be left to their own devices. If one or a few countries have 'got this right', why don't all countries adopt the same policy. We all have to come out of this together or be beating the same drum. What angers me shouldn't WHO been over this like a rash in the first place. What is their role? What is the point of them if countries don't actually listen to advice. We are left with blame games, strategies that we don't know which are the best. The 'better' looking ones now may come back to bite a bullet later on. Still after this time the world looks for solid instructions. It seems at this point in time, the truth is no one knows what to do for the best. The points raised on both sides show that. It's all just best endeavours where there wasn't one co-ordinated response from WHO. 

NickR
30 April 2020 09:03:06


 


Wish that it were I could dictate government policy! I can't, of course, any more than you can.


Therefore it doesn't matter what I want (please note I've not said what I want either, no casting aspersions please), what matters is what the government wants - and that is a tradeoff between the economy and excess deaths. Again, everything they've done so far suggests they're comfortable with a certain level of deaths and that the strategy is to stop the NHS being overwhelmed. It's crystal clear if you look at the way, for example, they changed point 5 yesterday.


It's also the case that thousands of more deaths are inevitable, whether you or I like it or find it acceptable or not.


As to Nick's point, if you've been keeping up with the news the past few days you'll find that there's solid evidence you can't get it again any time soon, both from South Korea and primate testing. I'm happy to go along with that, as it fits in with everything we know about the other coronaviruses that infect humans. You do get immunity and it lasts for months, if not a couple of years.


There's zero evidence out there so far that this is any different, thankfully.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


There have been lots of studies, showing different possible levels of immunity, some not nearly as positive as the ones you cite. Picking a couple at this stage and prioritising them above others smacks of cherry-picking.

Nick
Durham
[email protected]
The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:05:13

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
Retron
30 April 2020 09:07:31


There have been lots of studies, showing different possible levels of immunity, some not nearly as positive as the ones you cite. Picking a couple at this stage and prioritising them above others smacks of cherry-picking.


Originally Posted by: NickR 


The ones I referenced are only a few days old. Cherry picking? Maybe, but I'm confident that this is no different in terms of immunity from other coronaviruses. Time will tell!


(And put it this way, if I could get an antibody test and found I already had it, I'd be more than happy to go back into the school each day, go to shops etc, without worrying about whether I would catch it).

Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:07:44


 


There have been lots of studies, showing different possible levels of immunity, some not nearly as positive as the ones you cite. Picking a couple at this stage and prioritising them above others smacks of cherry-picking.


Originally Posted by: NickR 


The Lancet report did suggest that those who only got it mildly may not have developed enough antibodies to ward off a second infection later in the year. I'm sure they have some immunity for a while, but I suppose we just have to wait and see whether a second wave comes in September


 

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
Saint Snow
30 April 2020 09:09:33


 


You'll be able to spot a coronavirus survivor by his moobs.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


 


I'm going to be repeatedly mistaken for a coronavirus survivor


Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
westv
30 April 2020 09:09:38




Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


But the connection to Covid19 is?

At least it will be mild!
The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:10:24


 


Boris Johnson to dash hopes coronavirus lockdown will be lifted soon


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


disappointing and he has clearly been got at by the medical lobby and his own experience is clouding his judgement.


Perhaps the party donors and Barclay brothers need to persuade him to step aside and install Sunak


 


 

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
David M Porter
30 April 2020 09:11:23


 


But I asked WHY we couldn't do what SK, NZ, Portugal, Greece, etc. have done. All I ever get is statements like the one in bold. That's not an answer, certainly not without actual details and reasoning.


Originally Posted by: NickR 


One has to ask as well why a country like Germany, which is not that dissimilar to the UK in a lot of ways, seems to have generally done a rather better job at controlling the virus than the UK has. Again, it comes down the the fact they took early and decisive action when they realised the dangers posed by the virus.


I know that the virus has caused a lot of deaths in Germany as it has virtually everywhere else in the world, but the last time I looked, the fatality toll from Covid-19 there was very much lower than what it now is in the UK.


If this country was ever going to have a decent chance and containing the spread of the virus and keeping the number of infections and fatalities to a minimum, early and decisive action was needed. We pretty well lost the battle against the virus in the period from the end of January to the middle of March.

Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
xioni2
30 April 2020 09:12:34


 Wish that it were I could dictate government policy! I can't, of course, any more than you can.


Therefore it doesn't matter what I want (please note I've not said what I want either, no casting aspersions please), what matters is what the government wants - and that is a tradeoff between the economy and excess deaths. 


 

Originally Posted by: Retron 


First of all, I didn't say or imply that this is something you want to happen, I said that you may consider it to be inevitable; please be a bit more careful and considerate with what you say.


Secondly, many countries keep proving that it never had to be  a tradeoff between the economy and excess deaths and we'll have a second chance for that too. Countries that got it wrong the first time (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium etc.) will probably start deviating in the next few months depending on how good their containment strategy is now. 


 

The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:14:04


 


But the connection to Covid19 is?


Originally Posted by: westv 


Its knocked off Covid19 from the frontpages of most tabloids.


Laura K gushing that he has not taken paternity leave, yet he has NEVER taken paternity leave for any of his previous 6 or 7 sprogs, whom he never sees anyway!


He is a feckless father with the morals of an alley cat, yet the plebs are instructed to celebrate him by their media. Sickening


We are no different to N Korea

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:15:23


 


You'll be able to spot a coronavirus survivor by his moobs.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


My moobs were probably the result of drinking too much Corona

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:18:53

Remdesivir, is it or isn’t it an answer?

Originally Posted by: speckledjim 

">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783


I'm sure it may help cut the recovery time in some people


When I had Shingles, they gave me an anti-viral drug (cant remember what it was), but it really helped and it cleared up a few days after I started taking it. 


Perhaps it would have done so anyway, I have no way to know


 

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
springsunshine
30 April 2020 09:20:53


 


disappointing and he has clearly been got at by the medical lobby and his own experience is clouding his judgement.


Perhaps the party donors and Barclay brothers need to persuade him to step aside and install Sunak


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


The decisions are made by the govt based on evidence and forecasts both in terms of health and economic,not by Boris alone,we do not live in a dictatorship.

Heavy Weather 2013
30 April 2020 09:21:02

What an awful man the president of Brazil is. From the BBC:


President Jair Bolsonaro has downplayed the threat posed by the virus. Asked by reporters for comment after the death toll passed the 5,000 mark on Tuesday, he said: "So what? I'm sorry. What do you want me to do?"


One of the worst affected cities has been Manaus in the Amazon. The city's mayor has said that they are preparing to hold more than 4,000 funerals in May - four times the usual number.

Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
springsunshine
30 April 2020 09:22:42


 


Its knocked off Covid19 from the frontpages of most tabloids.


Laura K gushing that he has not taken paternity leave, yet he has NEVER taken paternity leave for any of his previous 6 or 7 sprogs, whom he never sees anyway!


He is a feckless father with the morals of an alley cat, yet the plebs are instructed to celebrate him by their media. Sickening


We are no different to N Korea


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Beast,this is one of your ridiculous posts again!

The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:22:55


 


The point here is that eventually lockdowns will have to be eased, otherwise you trash the economy. If you have the virus in circulation any easing will cause R to shoot up... and if you're not careful you will end up with a second wave. Remember those charts the gov't was using back in March? They showed very clearly that when lockdowns ended a second wave was inevitable.


Countries like NZ have largely avoided the first wave, but that just means they now have to be vigilant every hour of every day... even a couple of asymptomaic people coming in to a country which has no immunes will set off a chain reaction.


While it's likely that the level of immunity here will be low, even 5% immunity would slow the spread somewhat which will flatten a second curve.


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


And NZ are moving to winter now, so less UV to help and the virus does seem to thrive in colder conditions, perhaps because people mix indoors more. 


 


 

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
NickR
30 April 2020 09:23:37


 


First of all, I didn't say or imply that this is something you want to happen, I said that you may consider it to be inevitable; please be a bit more careful and considerate with what you say.


Secondly, many countries keep proving that it never had to be  a tradeoff between the economy and excess deaths and we'll have a second chance for that too. Countries that got it wrong the first time (UK, France, Spain, Italy, Belgium etc.) will probably start deviating in the next few months depending on how good their containment strategy is now. 


 


Originally Posted by: xioni2 


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
The Beast from the East
30 April 2020 09:24:07


 


Beast,this is one of your ridiculous posts again!


Originally Posted by: springsunshine 


So sorry to criticise your Brexit hero

Purley, Surrey, 70m ASL

"We have some alternative facts for you"

Kelly-Ann Conway - former special adviser to the President
chelseagirl
30 April 2020 09:24:10


">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52478783

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I'm sure it may help cut the recovery time in some people


When I had Shingles, they gave me an anti-viral drug (cant remember what it was), but it really helped and it cleared up a few days after I started taking it. 


Perhaps it would have done so anyway, I have no way to know


 



Probably Acyclovir. I had it too and it worked. Took a couple of weeks, but definite improvement almost immediately. 

The Fenlands of Cambridgeshire
Gooner
30 April 2020 09:24:11


 


disappointing and he has clearly been got at by the medical lobby and his own experience is clouding his judgement.


Perhaps the party donors and Barclay brothers need to persuade him to step aside and install Sunak


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I'm pleased to hear it , oddly his experience has helped him understand just what a real threat the virus is

Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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