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fairweather
01 May 2020 20:33:41

von der Leyen right on the money here. Global cooperation is what is required now.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20200501-talking-europe-watch-our-interview-with-ursula-von-der-leyen-eu-commission-president

Originally Posted by: Ulric 


and we definitely don't want Trump starting a war with China because whichever of them gets the vaccine first as sure as hell won't share it with the other. We did our best to keep Penicillin a secret from the Germans in WW2. Humanity is always the first casualty of war.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
llamedos
01 May 2020 20:34:18



 Boris Johnson faces court battle as businessman Simon Dolan argues lockdown is ILLEGAL




Quote

 


BORIS JOHNSON is facing a legal challenge over the Government's decision to impose the UK-wide coronavirus lockdown. A wealthy businessman has launched the legal bid, claiming the coronavirus lockdown will kill more people than it saves. Simon Dolan, whose Jota Aviation company has been delivering personal protective equipment (PPE) to the NHS, is seeking a judicial review over the Government's emergency measures that he claims restrict people's personal liberty.


His legal challenge mirrors the action taken by Gina Miller over Brexit, on the grounds that the lockdown was both legally defective and disproportionate in law. Accusing the Government of "paralysing the country" and causing "long term damage",  he is calling on Boris Johnson to relax the current lockdown restrictions and introduce three key changes to allow the economy to recover. This includes permitting gatherings of up to 100 people, reopening schools and reviewing the lockdown restrictions every two weeks. Mr Dolan's lawyers have sent a 'Letter Before Action' to Health Secretary Matt Hancock, giving him until Thursday May 7 to respond.


Lawyers seek to challenge the Government on three main points.


Firstly, whether the lockdown is unlawful because the Government implemented regulations under the Public Health Act 1984 instead of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 or the Coronavirus Act 2020.


Secondly over the legality of the continuation of lockdown regulation, and whether the tests are too narrow - failing to take account of the economic and social impacts of lockdown.


The final challenge will evaluate if the restrictions contravene the European Convention of Human Rights, which cover the right to liberty, family life, education and property.


As part of the application, Mr Dolan is also requesting the minutes of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) meetings this year.


 





https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1276697/Boris-johnson-coronavirus-lockdown-illegal-court-judicial-review-simon-dolan?fbclid=IwAR3neXufC8Ajv2cAWA2-pUKy9xVh9u0W_jRprZ28TnOnRD8Sh9gp9rwxWiA



Originally Posted by: Gavin D 

The phrase "complete and utter w anker" springs to mind 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
fairweather
01 May 2020 20:44:13


Headline in the Fail:


What a Fiddle 


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html



Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


My whole world has been turned upside down. The Daily Mail has criticised the Government !


S.Essex, 42m ASL
John p
01 May 2020 20:46:44


The phrase "complete and utter w anker" springs to mind 


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Especially as he’s worth £142m and yet feels the need to crowdfund his legal fees. 


Camberley, Surrey
Bugglesgate
01 May 2020 20:57:36


 


Especially as he’s worth £142m and yet feels the need to crowdfund his legal fees. 


Originally Posted by: John p 


... that's the attitude that has allowed him to be worth £142m.


The bloke is a  complete tool (IMHO).


 


 


Chris (It,its)
Between Newbury and Basingstoke
"When they are giving you their all, some stagger and fall, after all it's not easy banging your heart against some mad buggers wall"
John p
01 May 2020 21:01:09


 


... that's the attitude that has allowed him to be worth £142m.


The bloke is a  complete tool (IMHO).


 


 


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 


Presumably if he defeats the government, he can be sued for any resulting deaths when cases start to rise again?


Camberley, Surrey
llamedos
01 May 2020 21:08:51

I'm not sure where such complaints are heard, but I would hope that the case would be dismissed as frivolous before proceedings were ever started.


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Polar Low
01 May 2020 21:15:25

Out of interest have you read Hitlers Penicillin?


quote=fairweather;1211500]


 


and we definitely don't want Trump starting a war with China because whichever of them gets the vaccine first as sure as hell won't share it with the other. We did our best to keep Penicillin a secret from the Germans in WW2. Humanity is always the first casualty of war.


Brian Gaze
01 May 2020 21:15:36

The 2m rule could be ditched according to the Tele:


The two-metre social distancing rule is being reviewed by the Government in the hope that relaxing the restriction could allow more businesses and schools to reopen, The Daily Telegraph understands.


Ministers have asked the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) to look again at whether people need to stay so far apart, amid growing evidence that coronavirus does not transmit well in the air.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/01/two-metre-rule-reviewed-amid-hope-relaxed-restrictions-could/


 


 


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Phil G
01 May 2020 21:15:49


 


Presumably if he defeats the government, he can be sued for any resulting deaths when cases start to rise again?


Originally Posted by: John p 


That's what I was thinking about the decision to reopen schools. Just say if there was a big outbreak, some of the children were badly affected, even died, what would the fall out be especially as saying about opening when safe to do so. 

Phil G
01 May 2020 21:17:03


The 2m rule could be ditched according to the Tele:


The two-metre social distancing rule is being reviewed by the Government in the hope that relaxing the restriction could allow more businesses and schools to reopen, The Daily Telegraph understands.


Ministers have asked the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) to look again at whether people need to stay so far apart, amid growing evidence that coronavirus does not transmit well in the air.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/01/two-metre-rule-reviewed-amid-hope-relaxed-restrictions-could/


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I'd go the other way for the time being, 4m instead of 2.

John p
01 May 2020 21:20:56


The 2m rule could be ditched according to the Tele:


The two-metre social distancing rule is being reviewed by the Government in the hope that relaxing the restriction could allow more businesses and schools to reopen, The Daily Telegraph understands.


Ministers have asked the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) to look again at whether people need to stay so far apart, amid growing evidence that coronavirus does not transmit well in the air.


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/01/two-metre-rule-reviewed-amid-hope-relaxed-restrictions-could/


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


This is crazy talk, if it doesn’t transmit well in the air, how have so many caught this? Just from surfaces?


Here’s the full article for non subscribers.


Q won’t be happy about this!


 




Camberley, Surrey
Phil G
01 May 2020 21:40:42
Reports that Kim Jong-Un has made an appearance 20 days after being reported dead. If the picture alongside is today's, he certainly looks a bit peaky, like he has had Covid-19 or something.
Ulric
01 May 2020 21:49:32

Reports that Kim Jong-Un has made an appearance 20 days after being reported dead. If the picture alongside is today's, he certainly looks a bit peaky, like he has had Covid-19 or something.

Originally Posted by: Phil G 


Well, what would Jesus do?


Pretend to be dead and disappear for a few days?


Seems to be de rigueur for national leaders these days.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Ulric
01 May 2020 21:51:55


 


This is crazy talk, if it doesn’t transmit well in the air, how have so many caught this? Just from surfaces?


Here’s the full article for non subscribers.


Q won’t be happy about this!


 




Originally Posted by: John p 


The two metre rule needs to be relaxed so that developers can claim the cupboard under the stairs is actually a double bedroom.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
fairweather
01 May 2020 22:12:27


Out of interest have you read Hitlers Penicillin?


quote=fairweather;1211500]


 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


No, is it good?


S.Essex, 42m ASL
CreweCold
01 May 2020 22:20:58


 


This is crazy talk, if it doesn’t transmit well in the air, how have so many caught this? Just from surfaces?


Here’s the full article for non subscribers.


Q won’t be happy about this!


 




Originally Posted by: John p 


Yep, blatantly obvious it spreads in the air. The Diamond princess was enough to show that, allied to how many people are catching this. 


Plenty of anecdotes around from people who caught it whilst practicing rigorous hand washing.



Crewe, Cheshire
55 metres above sea level
Gandalf The White
01 May 2020 22:42:17


 


I am completely brassed off by the broadcast media - talk about bloody churlish!


Matt Hancock deliberately set a stiff target to push the PHE bureaucracy into ramping up test capability and they have achieved it. But instead of celebrating that humungous achievement, all we get is carping.


Sod the bloody BBC and Channel 4 News - point is that we now have a foundation to get out of lockdown - mass testing and contact tracing to follow - let's at least celebrate that!


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


The only thing that surprises me is that you're surprised.


It's just the same in here. We had the usual suspects heaping sarcasm and derision at the government because the 100k per day target was clearly unattainable. Now it's been exceeded we have a switch of approach to nit-picking over the testing kits sent in the post.


The substantive point is that we've ramped up the level of testing. The rest is just irrelevant noise and small-minded and petty.


Mind you, it's taken long enough for th government to get something right.  The amateurish start and the obfuscation over PPE are indelible black marks.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


fairweather
01 May 2020 22:43:44


 


Yep, blatantly obvious it spreads in the air. The Diamond princess was enough to show that, allied to how many people are catching this. 


Plenty of anecdotes around from people who caught it whilst practicing rigorous hand washing.


Originally Posted by: CreweCold 


Johnson's old mates at the Telegraph seem determined to put pressure on him to unlock (too soon in my opinion). They are coming up with all sorts of theories to undermine it. Will he have the strength to overrule them. I have my doubts. i think they will do what they have always do:-


Say one thing in the PR to say it is all wonderful and do something else behind the scenes and hope the public will let them get away with it as they have many times before.


S.Essex, 42m ASL
Darren S
01 May 2020 22:45:39

A relative of mine, who claims to be a key worker (not sure what she does other than being a dog breeder!) went for a COVID-19 test today at a Drive-Thru location. Her husband also had one because he runs a Car Recovery Firm, though being as he's now 70, I'd be surprised if he actually does recoveries.


Neither had symptoms, they just went for "peace of mind". I thought you had to have symptoms to get a test? Maybe it doesn't matter if the Government are trying to test as many people as they can?


They've posted numerous photos and video clips of the experience, most of which were rubbish, but this is the instructions they were sent for taking a swab.



Darren
Crowthorne, Berks (87m asl)
South Berks Winter Snow Depth Totals:
2023/24 0 cm; 2022/23 7 cm; 2021/22 1 cm; 2020/21 13 cm; 2019/20 0 cm; 2018/19 14 cm; 2017/18 23 cm; 2016/17 0 cm; 2015/16 0.5 cm; 2014/15 3.5 cm; 2013/14 0 cm; 2012/13 22 cm; 2011/12 7 cm; 2010/11 6 cm; 2009/10 51 cm
Gandalf The White
01 May 2020 22:47:18


 


I'd go the other way for the time being, 4m instead of 2.


Originally Posted by: Phil G 


That would make more sense. But it would make shopping in supermarkets an even bigger nightmare.


Our recent trip to Tesco suggests either a woeful lack of understanding of what two metres looks like or a wilful disinterest in following the rules. Even some of the staff doing the 'click and collect' and home delivery work were as bad.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Phil G
01 May 2020 23:15:44


 


That would make more sense. But it would make shopping in supermarkets an even bigger nightmare.


Our recent trip to Tesco suggests either a woeful lack of understanding of what two metres looks like or a wilful disinterest in following the rules. Even some of the staff doing the 'click and collect' and home delivery work were as bad.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


I suspect it's the supermarkets that are causing most of the new cases around the country. I was quite impressed by my weekly trip to Morrison's today, well yesterday now. They have made changes to the way you checkout. Much more supervision and isolation here. There were less people being let in too, but there is a real problem where people start to congregate where shoppers take their time by a certain area. I had a word with the checkout staff behind the screen. Asked him how workers there were faring, and he said they we all doing well and no cases he was aware of.

Gandalf The White
01 May 2020 23:27:49


 


Johnson's old mates at the Telegraph seem determined to put pressure on him to unlock (too soon in my opinion). They are coming up with all sorts of theories to undermine it. Will he have the strength to overrule them. I have my doubts. i think they will do what they have always do:-


Say one thing in the PR to say it is all wonderful and do something else behind the scenes and hope the public will let them get away with it as they have many times before.


Originally Posted by: fairweather 


On this occasion though it is not Johnson v the RWM, it’s Johnson and the scientific advisors v the RWM and I think that’s a very different equation.


The scientific advice will still be focusing hard on social distancing because it’s a key area. I just don’t see relaxation on both ‘stay at home’ and social distancing simultaneously; it would make no sense to raise the risk so much unnecessarily.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Super Cell
01 May 2020 23:38:47


 


That would make more sense. But it would make shopping in supermarkets an even bigger nightmare.


Our recent trip to Tesco suggests either a woeful lack of understanding of what two metres looks like or a wilful disinterest in following the rules. Even some of the staff doing the 'click and collect' and home delivery work were as bad.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


You can't re-train people in a few weeks.


On numerous occasions I've walked past something I meant to get, turned round and gone back with only that in my mind, Clearly that ruins the distancing behind me, inadvertently. Multiply that by other people, and it's inevitably going to lead to people closer than they 'should' be.


The mention of four metres is just daft, no matter how desirable in a purely theoretical world. In the end we are going to have to accept an imperfect solution to those scenarios and concentrate on minimising the risk so far as practical. 


People aren't plates on a sushi conveyor belt. 


Farnley/Pudsey Leeds
40m asl
Heavy Weather 2013
02 May 2020 04:05:36
I find that telegraph headline astonishing.

It really does undermine the core messaging. It sounds like a headline to test the water and I cannot for one second see SAGE changing their advice.

Every paper this morning seems to have their own version of what’s going to lofted after lockdown. It’s so confusing to know what’s real or made up
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.

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