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Brian Gaze
11 May 2020 05:24:32

Boris Johnson urged the country to take its first tentative steps out of lockdown this week in an address to the nation that was immediately condemned as being divisive, confusing and vague.


In a speech from Downing Street, Johnson said if the circumstances were right, schools in England and some shops might be able to open next month, and the government was “actively encouraging” people to return to work if they cannot do so from home.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/10/boris-johnson-coronavirus-lockdown-shops-schools-june-reopening


My view is Johnson's announcement was awful. Perhaps it will age well but this morning it gives the impression we have a government which is struggling and a leader who is not up to the job. The leadership will need to move quickly to provide clarification and hope the infection rate doesn't start to increase again.


The "quarantine" already looks like messy. It will not apply to passengers from France and the time period was not stated. Airline and airport bosses are saying they are still in the dark. 


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Justin W
11 May 2020 05:29:02


Boris Johnson urged the country to take its first tentative steps out of lockdown this week in an address to the nation that was immediately condemned as being divisive, confusing and vague.


In a speech from Downing Street, Johnson said if the circumstances were right, schools in England and some shops might be able to open next month, and the government was “actively encouraging” people to return to work if they cannot do so from home.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/10/boris-johnson-coronavirus-lockdown-shops-schools-june-reopening


My view is Johnson's announcement was awful. Perhaps it will age well but this morning it gives the impression we have a government which is struggling and a leader who is not up to the job.


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I was indeed awful. My question about not having a car and having to take a bus shows exactly how bad it was. Millions will be confused this morning. That confusion will cost more lives.


Johnson is unfit to lead in the best of times. At this point of national crisis, he is possibly the worst person you could pick to sit in No10. He proved last night that he is unable to provide clear guidelines. HMG’s response has been a mess since mid March - last night it descended into farce.


We will hit 100k deaths now. I have no doubt about it.


Yo yo yo. 148-3 to the 3 to the 6 to the 9, representing the ABQ, what up, biatch?
Heavy Weather 2013
11 May 2020 05:38:42


The "quarantine" already looks like messy. It will not apply to passengers from France and the time period was not stated. Airline and airport bosses are saying they are still in the dark. 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I have already been reading this morning that’s sports people will also be exempt. 


Why are they so special? Yes sport is important, but the virus can’t tell the difference between Joe Public and a Sports Star.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Heavy Weather 2013
11 May 2020 05:40:23


 


I was indeed awful. My question about not having a car and having to take a bus shows exactly how bad it was. Millions will be confused this morning. That confusion will cost more lives.


Johnson is unfit to lead in the best of times. At this point of national crisis, he is possibly the worst person you could pick to sit in No10. He proved last night that he is unable to provide clear guidelines. HMG’s response has been a mess since mid March - last night it descended into farce.


We will hit 100k deaths now. I have no doubt about it.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


I noticed last night a Tory apologist was saying don’t take a job if you work far away thus negating the need to use Public Transport.


Clearly never commuted in London/SE.


As ever Justin you have your figure very much on the pulse as normal.


Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Gooner
11 May 2020 05:46:56

Even the simplest thing with exercise he hasn't a clue and it was clearly made up.


They have stuck their finger in the air and hoping this works .


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Caz
  • Caz
  • Advanced Member
11 May 2020 05:55:00

For anyone who missed it.  Here is what the PM said:


It is now almost two months since the people of this country began to put up with restrictions on their freedom – your freedom – of a kind that we have never seen before in peace or war.


And you have shown the good sense to support those rules overwhelmingly.  You have put up with all the hardships of that programme of social distancing.  Because you understand that as things stand, and as the experience of every other country has shown, it’s the only way to defeat the coronavirus - the most vicious threat this country has faced in my lifetime.


And though the death toll has been tragic, and the suffering immense.  And though we grieve for all those we have lost.  It is a fact that by adopting those measures we prevented this country from being engulfed by what could have been a catastrophe in which the reasonable worst case scenario was half a million fatalities.


And it is thanks to your effort and sacrifice in stopping the spread of this disease that the death rate is coming down and hospital admissions are coming down.  And thanks to you we have protected our NHS and saved many thousands of lives.  And so I know - you know - that it would be madness now to throw away that achievement by allowing a second spike.  We must stay alert. We must continue to control the virus and save lives.


And yet we must also recognise that this campaign against the virus has come at colossal cost to our way of life.  We can see it all around us in the shuttered shops and abandoned businesses and darkened pubs and restaurants.  And there are millions of people who are both fearful of this terrible disease, and at the same time also fearful of what this long period of enforced inactivity will do to their livelihoods and their mental and physical wellbeing.  To their futures and the futures of their children.


So I want to provide tonight - for you - the shape of a plan to address both fears.  Both to beat the virus and provide the first sketch of a road map for reopening society.  A sense of the way ahead, and when and how and on what basis we will take the decisions to proceed.  I will be setting out more details in Parliament tomorrow and taking questions from the public in the evening.


I have consulted across the political spectrum, across all four nations of the UK.  And though different parts of the country are experiencing the pandemic at different rates.  And though it is right to be flexible in our response.  I believe that as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom – Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, there is a strong resolve to defeat this together.


And today a general consensus on what we could do.


And I stress could.


Because although we have a plan, it is a conditional plan.  And since our priority is to protect the public and save lives, we cannot move forward unless we satisfy the five tests.


We must protect our NHS.


We must see sustained falls in the death rate.


We must see sustained and considerable falls in the rate of infection.


We must sort out our challenges in getting enough PPE to the people who need it, and yes, it is a global problem but we must fix it.


And last, we must make sure that any measures we take do not force the reproduction rate of the disease - the R - back up over one, so that we have the kind of exponential growth we were facing a few weeks ago.


And to chart our progress and to avoid going back to square one, we are establishing a new Covid Alert System run by a new Joint Biosecurity Centre.  And that Covid Alert Level will be determined primarily by R and the number of coronavirus cases. And in turn that Covid Alert Level will tell us how tough we have to be in our social distancing measures – the lower the level the fewer the measures.


The higher the level, the tougher and stricter we will have to be.


There will be five alert levels.


Level One means the disease is no longer present in the UK and Level Five is the most critical – the kind of situation we could have had if the NHS had been overwhelmed.


Over the period of the lockdown we have been in Level Four, and it is thanks to your sacrifice we are now in a position to begin to move in steps to Level Three.  And as we go everyone will have a role to play in keeping the R down.


By staying alert and following the rules.


And to keep pushing the number of infections down there are two more things we must do.


We must reverse rapidly the awful epidemics in care homes and in the NHS, and though the numbers are coming down sharply now, there is plainly much more to be done.


And if we are to control this virus, then we must have a world-beating system for testing potential victims, and for tracing their contacts.  So that – all told - we are testing literally hundreds of thousands of people every day.


We have made fast progress on testing – but there is so much more to do now, and we can.  When this began, we hadn’t seen this disease before, and we didn’t fully understand its effects.


With every day we are getting more and more data.  We are shining the light of science on this invisible killer, and we will pick it up where it strikes.  Because our new system will be able in time to detect local flare-ups – in your area – as well as giving us a national picture.


And yet when I look at where we are tonight, we have the R below one, between 0.5 and 0.9 – but potentially only just below one.  And though we have made progress in satisfying at least some of the conditions I have given.  We have by no means fulfilled all of them.


And so no, this is not the time simply to end the lockdown this week.  Instead we are taking the first careful steps to modify our measures.


And the first step is a change of emphasis that we hope that people will act on this week.


We said that you should work from home if you can, and only go to work if you must.  We now need to stress that anyone who can’t work from home, for instance those in construction or manufacturing, should be actively encouraged to go to work.


And we want it to be safe for you to get to work. So you should avoid public transport if at all possible – because we must and will maintain social distancing, and capacity will therefore be limited.  So work from home if you can, but you should go to work if you can’t work from home. 


And to ensure you are safe at work we have been working to establish new guidance for employers to make workplaces COVID-secure.  And when you do go to work, if possible do so by car or even better by walking or bicycle. But just as with workplaces, public transport operators will also be following COVID-secure standards.


And from this Wednesday, we want to encourage people to take more and even unlimited amounts of outdoor exercise.  You can sit in the sun in your local park, you can drive to other destinations, you can even play sports but only with members of your own household.  You must obey the rules on social distancing and to enforce those rules we will increase the fines for the small minority who break them.


And so every day, with ever increasing data, we will be monitoring the R and the number of new infections, and the progress we are making, and if we as a nation begin to fulfil the conditions I have set out, then in the next few weeks and months we may be able to go further.


In step two – at the earliest by June 1 – after half term – we believe we may be in a position to begin the phased reopening of shops and to get primary pupils back into schools, in stages, beginning with reception, Year 1 and Year 6.


Our ambition is that secondary pupils facing exams next year will get at least some time with their teachers before the holidays. And we will shortly be setting out detailed guidance on how to make it work in schools and shops and on transport.


And step three - at the earliest by July - and subject to all these conditions and further scientific advice; if and only if the numbers support it, we will hope to re-open at least some of the hospitality industry and other public places, provided they are safe and enforce social distancing.


Throughout this period of the next two months we will be driven not by mere hope or economic necessity.  We are going to be driven by the science, the data and public health.  And I must stress again that all of this is conditional, it all depends on a series of big Ifs.


 It depends on all of us – the entire country – to follow the advice, to observe social distancing, and to keep that R down.  And to prevent re-infection from abroad, I am serving notice that it will soon be the time – with transmission significantly lower – to impose quarantine on people coming into this country by air.


 And it is because of your efforts to get the R down and the number of infections down here, that this measure will now be effective.  And of course we will be monitoring our progress locally, regionally, and nationally and if there are outbreaks, if there are problems, we will not hesitate to put on the brakes.


We have been through the initial peak – but it is coming down the mountain that is often more dangerous.


We have a route, and we have a plan, and everyone in government has the all-consuming pressure and challenge to save lives,restore livelihoods and gradually restore the freedoms that we need.  But in the end this is a plan that everyone must make work.  And when I look at what you have done already.  The patience and common sense you have shown.  The fortitude of the elderly whose isolation we all want to end as fast as we can.


 The incredible bravery and hard work of our NHS staff, our care workers.  The devotion and self-sacrifice of all those in every walk of life who are helping us to beat this disease.  Police, bus drivers, train drivers, pharmacists, supermarket workers, road hauliers, bin collectors, cleaners, security guards, postal workers, our teachers and a thousand more.  The scientists who are working round the clock to find a vaccine.


When I think of the millions of everyday acts of kindness and thoughtfulness that are being performed across this country.  And that have helped to get us through this first phase.


I know that we can use this plan to get us through the next.  And if we can’t do it by those dates, and if the alert level won’t allow it, we will simply wait and go on until we have got it right. 


We will come back from this devilish illness.  We will come back to health, and robust health.


And though the UK will be changed by this experience, I believe we can be stronger and better than ever before.


More resilient, more innovative, more economically dynamic, but also more generous and more sharing.


But for now we must stay alert, control the virus and save lives.


Market Warsop, North Nottinghamshire.
Join the fun and banter of the monthly CET competition.
Brian Gaze
11 May 2020 06:06:33


We will hit 100k deaths now. I have no doubt about it.


Originally Posted by: Justin W 


Indeed. That is now almost certain IMO unless the virus is less deadly than widely thought and infection rates are much higher than most scientists are saying. Which brings us back to antibody tests. Johnson didn't mention them yesterday. He also didn't talk about contact tracing. My understanding was both needed to be rolled out across the country before even a tentative easing of lockdown could begin. Again it appears the policy has changed because they are bricking it about the economy.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Brian Gaze
11 May 2020 06:09:27

 


I have already been reading this morning that’s sports people will also be exempt. 


Why are they so special? Yes sport is important, but the virus can’t tell the difference between Joe Public and a Sports Star.


Originally Posted by: Heavy Weather 2013 


Yes it makes no sense at all. What about people who have travelled to France and then on to the UK? 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
11 May 2020 06:16:06

Thanks to Caz for posting the full text. Perhaps it will stop unfounded accusations aimed at Boris, so I'll start by saying I was too hard on him last night. His speech does contain some definite advice but I still think it's a bit thin; blink and you've missed it. The clarity will come with that 50 pages of instructions to be published today.


 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
doctormog
11 May 2020 06:19:20


 


Yes it makes no sense at all. What about people who have travelled to France and then on to the UK? 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


And vice versa of course as it is a reciprocal agreement.


France has/will have quarantine measures in place from non-EU/Schengen arrivals only. Whatever risk there is for us based on that basis alone it will be greater for France?


Brian Gaze
11 May 2020 06:21:39
Must be bad! Ferrari just said "so much confusion" after Johnson's speech.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gooner
11 May 2020 06:22:12


Thanks to Caz for posting the full text. Perhaps it will stop unfounded accusations aimed at Boris, so I'll start by saying I was too hard on him last night. His speech does contain some definite advice but I still think it's a bit thin; blink and you've missed it. The clarity will come with that 50 pages of instructions to be published today.


 


Originally Posted by: DEW 


Which is why it was naff - he was addressing Joe Public who wont sit and read a 50 page document 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


doctormog
11 May 2020 06:24:45


 


Which is why it was naff - he was addressing Joe Public who wont sit and read a 50 page document 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 



So too little detail and things are unclear but too much and people won’t read it?


Chidog
11 May 2020 06:31:45


 



So too little detail and things are unclear but too much and people won’t read it?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Well this is the nub of the problem isn't it. Boris's task was to summarise an incredibly complex scientific and social problem, one which normally involve lots of complicated calculations of R, movement of people, transport loads, mixing in shops, etc etc, and crystallise it into a 400-500 word message that would reassure Trev from Clacton that he wouldn't lose his job whilst showing some possible tentative way out of lockdown.


The previous message was clear, the question has always been what should follow that. No one, including the government or anyone on here has come up with an effective exit plan. Particularly in London it is virtually impossible to co-ordinate a valid response for getting people back to work and maintain distancing whilst not shutting down for probably close to a year at best. I'm not sure anyone else has worked it out in similarly laid out cities either which is why Madrid, Paris etc remain closed. So what is the way out? 

Whether Idle
11 May 2020 06:37:05

Johnsons egotistical address was an unmitigated disaster.  


He is incompetent, the whole bunch of cabinet crooks and chancers are way out of their depth.


The government are a complete shambles and are leading the country to another deathly peak.


They were too slow to lockdown and now they are too quick to release.  


Dangerous fools.


Damn them the feckwits.  Hateful cretins.


 


Death be on their weak craven shoulders.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Gooner
11 May 2020 06:37:30


 



So too little detail and things are unclear but too much and people won’t read it?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Yes - Speech was as clear as fog


And do you really think Joe Public will sit and read a 50 ( Fifty ) page document , not a chance and not in touch with reality


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Retron
11 May 2020 06:39:57

The BBC's live update has this useful summary. Why there wasn't similar issued by the gov't yesterday, I'll never know!


(And the park bit is interesting. The nearest park here is a coastal park, with the beach and sea immediately adjacent. Just as well Leysdown isn't generally well-known, otherwise we'd have hordes descending!)




What is changing in England?






Prime Minister Boris Johnson announced plans to reopen society in England during his television address on Sunday. But what is changing?



  • People will be allowed to take unlimited amounts of outdoor exercise, sit or sunbathe in parks and play sports with household members from Wednesday

  • Two people from different households will be able to meet in a park if they stay two metres apart



  • People who cannot work from home should return to the workplace - but avoid public transport

  • People should try to stay at home as much as possible

  • Public transport should be avoided if possible

  • Stricter guidelines remain in the rest of the UK




Leysdown, north Kent
Ulric
11 May 2020 06:42:54

This morning's Farcebook assessment of the new Government advice.



To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
Chidog
11 May 2020 06:43:55
Away from the UK, five new community transmissions reported in Wuhan today. Something tells me the Chinese have not been throwing straight dice
Ulric
11 May 2020 06:48:50


Yes it makes no sense at all. What about people who have travelled to France and then on to the UK? 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I wondered that. Isn't that exactly the same as keeping the border open to the whole Schengen area, not just France?


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
doctormog
11 May 2020 06:52:11


 


Well this is the nub of the problem isn't it. Boris's task was to summarise an incredibly complex scientific and social problem, one which normally involve lots of complicated calculations of R, movement of people, transport loads, mixing in shops, etc etc, and crystallise it into a 400-500 word message that would reassure Trev from Clacton that he wouldn't lose his job whilst showing some possible tentative way out of lockdown.


The previous message was clear, the question has always been what should follow that. No one, including the government or anyone on here has come up with an effective exit plan. Particularly in London it is virtually impossible to co-ordinate a valid response for getting people back to work and maintain distancing whilst not shutting down for probably close to a year at best. I'm not sure anyone else has worked it out in similarly laid out cities either which is why Madrid, Paris etc remain closed. So what is the way out? 


Originally Posted by: Chidog 


That sums up the mess nicely. 


How exactly do you put simple clear instructions to a complex, intricate gradual lifting of a lockdown of an entire nation? 

As for Ulric’s question, yes but only if you are prepared to travel through France to get here which will stop the majority of “casual” travel.


Gandalf The White
11 May 2020 06:53:53


 



So too little detail and things are unclear but too much and people won’t read it?


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Precisely!


“There was no detail but people won’t read the details”


There in a nutshell is the problem: there’s a bandwagon rolling to suit every negative interpretation.


It was not a great effort and the timing was abysmal: why a Sunday evening? But there’s no pleasing some folk.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


JHutch
11 May 2020 07:01:44

People have suggested that the correct way of doing things would be to have had debate and questions in parliament, publication of the 50 page document, and then Johnson to do the speech this evening. That would have seemed better to me. Regarding people's reactions, I think part of the problem is that the speech had been built up as the big answer to everyone's questions and it didn't. Also agree with Chidog, acting as normal is easy to understand, lockdown is easy to understand, places in between the two are more complicated but it is an area which you are going to have to venture into at some point.

Heavy Weather 2013
11 May 2020 07:07:24
The problem with the PM is he could actually explain things better if he stopped with the metaphors, platitudes and playing to the crowd.

His desperation to be like Churchill knows no bounds. His speech’s are mostly incoherent waffle.

Matt Lucas did a perfect illustration of how his speech would have been interpreted by millions
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
Brian Gaze
11 May 2020 07:09:23

Had Prime Minister Gaze made the speech last night it would have been very short and to the point. Highlights below:


Nothing is changing. Stay Home, Protect the NHS, Save Lives. We will review again in 3 weeks time.


The reasons for this are that scaling up contact tracing and antibody testing are both taking longer than we expected. However, progress is being made on both fronts. In addition we will be implementing a national randomised antigen testing programme to establish the current rate of infection.


The number of infections is falling but it is not yet at a manageable level. Therefore, to crush this virus to a level we can control the same rules must continue to apply. The economic cost is huge but it will be even higher if we ease now and have to slam on the brakes again in a few weeks or months.  


 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan

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