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Devonian
17 May 2020 08:50:26




It's highly unlikely there will be no new cases in September never mind when Scottish schools go back.
If no risk at all is allowed by unions and hysterical media they may as well stay home until about next spring. 


Originally Posted by: four 


How much public money does your farm get?

Polar Low
17 May 2020 08:50:53

Have been told by the head to start marking out the classrooms with yellow and black tape for SD head has decided at this stage year 6 (totally 90’ will be sets of 8 per class so roughly 11 or12classes used for this year group. If it goes ahead.


All classrooms to be deep cleaned beforehand. 


Head is against early years return so I think hoping for backdown on that yer group


BTW


im not sure but I think special schools do not meet the same government  time table as primary or secondary schools a more valuable at risk group  mental health Etc hence your 15 th June date.?


@ MM


you keep on posting nonsense about schools it’s not you looking after the children is It it’s not you bring it home is it it’s not you risking anything is it please stop to be considerate you would think differently if it was wouldn’t you.


some folk are never grateful.


 



With regard to my own situation, we have been told school will be opening to more pupils from the 15th of June. We've not been told any details of how this will work - there is zero chance of social distancing in my school - but perhaps they will use the 'bubble' approach where small groups of children and staff remain separate. At the end of the day we'll have to do what we are told, the unions, despite the bluster have got very little power.


Originally Posted by: Northern Sky 

doctormog
17 May 2020 08:51:15




It's highly unlikely there will be no new cases in September never mind when Scottish schools go back.
If no risk at all is allowed by unions and hysterical media they may as well stay home until about next spring. 


Originally Posted by: four 


It is not about “no risk” and I don’t think anyone has said that, it is about effective risk management. Surely that is a good thing?


The suggestion is that such mensures are not there at the moment. I could make a list but I doubt anyone who has made up their mind would either care or read it. It is fine to make blanket bkack and white statement but the situation is far more nuanced and complicated than that.


We have no effective contact tracing and testing system in place but do have thousands of identified new cases each day. Opening schools may very well turn out to be totally unproblematic but who will be answerable if it turns out not to be the case. A betting man of course will be up for a bet where they don’t pay if they make the wrong decision.


Edit: I answered your question previously Maunder (although I cannot find my answer ). There are numerous reasons why after summer makes sense and 2 weeks time does not:


The evidence from the impact of school openings elsewhere, the bigger picture of the spread and more likely control of the virus, tracking and testing will hopefully be in place, risk assessments will have been carried out, adaptations to school buildings will have been put in place.


The list is massive.


Devonian
17 May 2020 08:53:12



Exactly - why do the teacher unions think things will be any different in September? I posed that question yesterday.


There is always risk in life and the best way to mitigate it is to stay in bed all day in a nuclear bunker - but bunker mentality achieves nothing in the end.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Ok, when are you going to infect yourself with SARS-Cov-2?

Ally Pally Snowman
17 May 2020 08:53:17



Exactly - why do the teacher unions think things will be any different in September? I posed that question yesterday.


There is always risk in life and the best way to mitigate it is to stay in bed all day in a nuclear bunker - but bunker mentality achieves nothing in the end.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


 


It won't be perfect in September but we should know much more about the disease and cases should be much lower. I don't think there is much to gain in rushing back in June.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gandalf The White
17 May 2020 08:54:34



Exactly - why do the teacher unions think things will be any different in September? I posed that question yesterday.


There is always risk in life and the best way to mitigate it is to stay in bed all day in a nuclear bunker - but bunker mentality achieves nothing in the end.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Yet again you and Four are guilty of thinking in digital terms when the reality is analogue.


There are degrees of risk between zero and very high. The real debate is about where on that line is sufficiently safe and sensible.


Absolute positions are for idiots and those who won't listen.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


David M Porter
17 May 2020 08:56:13



Exactly - why do the teacher unions think things will be any different in September? I posed that question yesterday.


There is always risk in life and the best way to mitigate it is to stay in bed all day in a nuclear bunker - but bunker mentality achieves nothing in the end.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


For me, it is as Joe and myself said last night: Full (or maybe even partial) re-opening of schools will only be safe to do once we have a proper test, trace and isolate system in place in this country, if we get one up and running at all that is.


That will also be the only way we can meaningfully ease the lockdown right across the UK, as far as I'm concerned.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Devonian
17 May 2020 08:57:39


 


Yet again you and Four are guilty of thinking in digital terms when the reality is analogue.


There are degrees of risk between zero and very high. The real debate is about where on that line is sufficiently safe and sensible.


Absolute positions are for idiots and those who won't listen.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Spot on.

Gavin D
17 May 2020 08:59:18

​


Al fresco pubs and dining to save the high street




Quote

 


Cafes, pubs and restaurants would be allowed to sell food and drink from street stalls within weeks and small church weddings could take place from July, under plans being considered by ministers to gradually ease the lockdown.


Businesses that hold licences to have tables and chairs at the front of their premises are to be allowed to set up market-style stalls instead, as part of a bid to begin reviving high streets before pubs and eateries can begin opening their doors to customers, potentially in the summer.


Boris Johnson is also understood to favour proposals to temporarily relax Sunday trading laws to help boost the economy and allow more time for key workers to shop while social distancing is in place.


Ministers are considering a "blanket permission" for restaurants and cafes to make use of public squares for stalls. Cafes, pubs and restaurants would be allowed to sell food and drink from street stalls within weeks and small church weddings could take place from July, under plans being considered by ministers to gradually ease the lockdown.


Under plans being spearheaded by Robert Jenrick, the Housing and Local Government Secretary, the Government will issue guidance allowing shops, restaurants and pubs to set up stalls in front of their premises in areas on which they already have a licence to place tables and chairs. The move comes after minsters previously relaxed planning rules to allow pubs and restaurants to operate as hot food takeaways during the coronavirus outbreak.


 





https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/05/16/al-fresco-pubs-dining-save-high-street/


​

Polar Low
17 May 2020 09:01:04

What bollocks, come to work with me and help mark out the floor out next week what nonsense statement.


 


 


quote=Maunder Minimum;1216611]



Exactly - why do the teacher unions think things will be any different in September? I posed that question yesterday.


There is always risk in life and the best way to mitigate it is to stay in bed all day in a nuclear bunker - but bunker mentality achieves nothing in the end.


Brian Gaze
17 May 2020 09:01:10


 


My daughter is delighted at the prospect of returning in 2 weeks. We keep on telling her though that it is not definite to temper her enthusiasm.


Originally Posted by: speckledjim 


 Throughout my life I've always looked forward to Friday and not Monday.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
John p
17 May 2020 09:01:26


The chief medical officer for the WHO this morning on Andrew Marr saying we will probably have to learn to live with the virus for at least five years - does not sound optimistic about a viable vaccine being able to kill it (just like influenza).


Clearly we cannot have societal lockdown for five years, so we have to have the strategies for living with the virus being omnipresent - that includes testing, contact tracing and havin processes to protect those most at risk - something like what is already done for the winter flu.


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Did I imagine the influenza vaccine I had last year then?


Camberley, Surrey
Brian Gaze
17 May 2020 09:02:54


The chief medical officer for the WHO this morning on Andrew Marr saying we will probably have to learn to live with the virus for at least five years - does not sound optimistic about a viable vaccine being able to kill it (just like influenza).


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Gilbert at Oxford says 80% chance of a vaccine by September. Which is it?


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Retron
17 May 2020 09:05:44


Exactly - why do the teacher unions think things will be any different in September? I posed that question yesterday.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Err - well, if you think we're going to see circa 3500 cases a day, every day, from now until September then I can see why you asked the question.


If you don't think that, the answer's pretty obvious!


(And FWIW, we won't be seeing 3500 cases a day for the next 3½ months. The idea is that as the number of cases fall, restrictions can be eased. As it stands, and as I said earlier, with things as they are opening schools fully is impossible. Hopefully by September cases will have fallen enough that things can get back to some semblance of normality, or at least there'll perhaps be a lowering of the 2m distance, such that all the children can actually physically attend school!)


 


Leysdown, north Kent
doctormog
17 May 2020 09:07:32


 


Gilbert at Oxford says 80% chance of a vaccine by September. Which is it?


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


80% confidence that an effective vaccine would be found and that it could be by September. Although since then has scaled that back to “very optimistic”. Time will tell.


David M Porter
17 May 2020 09:09:45


 


Gilbert at Oxford says 80% chance of a vaccine by September. Which is it?


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Hasn't Sarah Gilbert in the past developed or helped to develop a number of vaccines against other diseases?


Only my view, but I am pretty sure she would not have been making the comments that she has made to the press in recent weeks about the chances of getting a vaccine by the time she speaks of unless she and those that work with her were all fairly confident that their vaccine will be the real deal.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
The Beast from the East
17 May 2020 09:11:54


 


We should really be doing the same, not that my view counts for much! Trying a half-arsed return really doens't make that much sense.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Retron 


I thought you were chomping at the bit to get back to work?


Did your negative antibody test change your mind?


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Ulric
17 May 2020 09:12:29


There is always risk in life and the best way to mitigate it is to stay in bed all day in a nuclear bunker - but bunker mentality achieves nothing in the end.


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Brexit has finally got to you.


To doubt everything or to believe everything are two equally convenient solutions; both dispense with the necessity of reflection. - Henri Poincaré
ozone_aurora
17 May 2020 09:16:13


Another thing occurs to me. If the warmer weather is starting to significantly reduce the infection rate we should be using that to our advantage and pushing even harder to "stamp out" the virus in the UK. It could be possible for us to be in a similar position to New Zealand by the time winter arrives. If so it would make border control effective.   


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


If so, it would be a big hope for somewhere like USA, as their Summer weather (except for the far NW) are similar to that of Africa or India (especially temperatures). Obviously, less of a hope for the UK, but let's hope this summer will be a hot one here.

Retron
17 May 2020 09:16:30


I thought you were chomping at the bit to get back to work?


Did your negative antibody test change your mind?


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I've never not been at work, as luckily my job is 95% doable from home anyway. I've been working my usual 8-to-4 hours, as have my team.


And no, the only thing I'm chomping at the bit to get back to is the wolves - I honestly don't miss the queues in the afternoon rush, the merging at the roundabout with pushy Londoners in the summer, the parents cluttering up the road to the school in their massive 4-by-4s, the getting to work 2 hours early just to avoid the morning rush hour and get a parking space, the constant interruptions when doing something that requires a lot of concentration...


The job itself is fine, but losing the bits around it makes me realise just how much time is wasted each day. I'd rather waste it at home than on the road!


Leysdown, north Kent
The Beast from the East
17 May 2020 09:18:35


 


 


 


He tweeted last night: 'Not sending your kids back to school is a middle-class privilege. Let's start thinking about what's best for society, not just the families of the privileged few.' 


 


 


 


Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


So the Daily Heil finds one Doctor who disagrees with the BMA as proof that the advice is rubbish.


Just the same tactic as finding a Single Parent with 8 kids living in a Council house as proof the benefits system is a joke. A tabloid tactic for generations 


If it was safe to open schools, why aren't Eton, Harrow and most other private schools opening then?


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
17 May 2020 09:20:45


 


 


And no, the only thing I'm chomping at the bit to get back to is the wolves -


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Why aren't you allowed to see them? I thought Boris has given the green light to travel anywhere to exercise etc


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
17 May 2020 09:22:56

I've been out of the conversation on schools despite a background in education. From a persnal point of view, as someone who would have to organise the logistics, I would g=have wanted to defer the return as long as possible!


But here goes  - IMO


The return on June 1st is being planned far more with a parental return to work in mind than with education of children. Only half a class can be accommodated inside a classroom, and there's no guarantee that the weather will alow outside classes, nor that parents will send their children back anyway. A lot of disorganisation will be inevitable, learning will be patchy and online teaching will become perfunctory as teachers will be occupied full-time in school. I'm not convinced that the cause of education will be advanced.


The return will be good for the children early years where attending school has a major social function as part of the education. In older years and outside families who value education, there will also have been an educational deficit (I speak from experience in trying some years ago to support an inner city project for such). So school opening is good for them, too, in principle. But institute compulsory attendance for anyone unable or unwilling to complete Internet assignments?


School re-opening is not good for teachers. There's been minimal discussion of PPE protection and with self-isolation regulations still in force there will be regular staff absences and classes sent home for lack of cover. Under existing legislation schools (or any other employer) who fails to provide safety at work is committing a criminal offence. Nor is re-opening good for parents with serious health issues when their children bring Covid home.


The unions have been somewhat hysterical, though I can't think of any other way in which this government might be persuaded to listen. They and the government need to concentrate on criteria which will enable schools to open instead of trading insults which have varied from smug to wild. Wait for the reaction when the first teacher after resumption dies of Covid, though! 


Comparisons with other countries are useful up to a point. The UK went into lockdown some weeks after other countries so we shouldn't expect to open as quickly as some have done. And because lockdown was late, our situation is worse than countries which acted promptly. Denmark has been quoted above as an example of successful re-opening; bi=ut taking figures from previous posts, they re-opened with 10 deaths/day in a population of 6m; that scales to 100 deaths per day in a population of approx 60m - last time I heard a figure the UK death rate was 468 per day.


So if I had to decide as a government minister, I'd actually talk to teachers and their representatives about specific criteria, aim at a re-opening in stages by age and location, think that I was doing well if a significant number of schools had re-opened this term, and resist pressure from the Cabinet Office to go any faster.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
The Beast from the East
17 May 2020 09:24:18


 


 Throughout my life I've always looked forward to Friday and not Monday.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


Me too, but since I gave up work, everyday is Friday and every evening is happy hour


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Devonian
17 May 2020 09:28:03


 So the Daily Heil finds one Doctor who disagrees with the BMA as proof that the advice is rubbish.


Just the same tactic as finding a Single Parent with 8 kids living in a Council house as proof the benefits system is a joke. A tabloid tactic for generations 


If it was safe to open schools, why aren't Eton, Harrow and most other private schools opening then?


 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Awkward realities and questions - the MMs of this world are great at avoiding them, their dogma tells them how to.

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