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TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 07:24:26
A string of GFS (and to a lesser extent ECM) downgrades throughout yesterday really has dented any prospect of decent settled weather in the short term. Like making a break and up the mountain but being caught up by the peloton.

Need a string of 3 or 4 upgrades now to salvage mid July.
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
briggsy6
29 June 2020 10:06:11

Last night Tomasz Schafernaker was hinting at a warm up around the 6th of July.


Location: Uxbridge
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 12:13:36

yet again GFS06z is a poor run, like its predecessor.


But also yet again it’s a low pressure outlier;



Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Quantum
29 June 2020 12:51:50


Wow


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
29 June 2020 13:38:07



Wow


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Similar to the 06z GFS op run



Ally Pally Snowman
29 June 2020 16:20:29

Nice 12z UKMO hot by 144h 14c 850s in South.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 16:26:16
So, for the 12z runs so far:

ICON: decent, ECM-style evolution with warmish end of week and then a ridge building in, starting cool but likely to warm up

GFS: More zonal than ICON though drier than 06z up to 213hrs. Longer term looking a bit dodgy but will find out later.

UKMO: A bit mysterious. At 144hrs things could go either way but it looks like a low pressure may make a dive over us
Brockley, South East London 30m asl
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 16:36:30

Yep, GFS goes downhill again. Worse even than 06z, though less wet. Either yet another outlier or a trend setter.


EDIT: not an outlier on GEFS. Looking pretty abysmal.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
29 June 2020 16:46:42

So, for the 12z runs so far:

ICON: decent, ECM-style evolution with warmish end of week and then a ridge building in, starting cool but likely to warm up

GFS: More zonal than ICON though drier than 06z up to 213hrs. Longer term looking a bit dodgy but will find out later.

UKMO: A bit mysterious. At 144hrs things could go either way but it looks like a low pressure may make a dive over us

Originally Posted by: TimS 


 


Not sure I agree that the low is sinking on the UKMO looks like it's a good way north.


Decent GEM as well with high pressure never far from the south and 29c n Sunday


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
29 June 2020 16:48:52

Yep, GFS goes downhill again. Worse even than 06z, though less wet. Either yet another outlier or a trend setter.

Originally Posted by: TimS 


 


I'm pretty much ignoring the GFS at the moment is been so poor. GEFS are more useful but still poor compared to the ECM ensembles


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 17:20:03


Not sure I agree that the low is sinking on the UKMO looks like it's a good way north.


Decent GEM as well with high pressure never far from the south and 29c n Sunday


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Reason I say that is the shape of the isobars. Assuming the low moves Eastwards, to avoid introducing Northwesterlies as it passes it has to travel about NNE from where it is at 144 hours. If it goes due East, or even NE, then winds will turn cooler, the high will be squashed further and retreat back towards the Azores, at least for a bit.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
29 June 2020 17:31:07


 


Reason I say that is the shape of the isobars. Assuming the low moves Eastwards, to avoid introducing Northwesterlies as it passes it has to travel about NNE from where it is at 144 hours. If it goes due East, or even NE, then winds will turn cooler, the high will be squashed further and retreat back towards the Azores, at least for a bit.


Originally Posted by: TimS 


 


Similar to GEM then which still ends up a good run for the southern third of the UK.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Downpour
29 June 2020 17:31:50


Yep, GFS goes downhill again. Worse even than 06z, though less wet. Either yet another outlier or a trend setter.


EDIT: not an outlier on GEFS. Looking pretty abysmal.


Originally Posted by: TimS 


 


Looks better for the south to my eye, very little in the way of rain again for the weekend, if rather cool at times. 


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Brian Gaze
29 June 2020 17:41:16

Unusual to see 850s below par for so much of the run. I know they're not the be all and end all at this time of year.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Chunky Pea
29 June 2020 17:49:55
Both these runs are from the 00z, but just to compare the EC and GEFS for the 10 to 15 day period (which the patterns are averaged over:

GEFS
UserPostedImage

& the EC:
UserPostedImage

Only thing both agree on is that the pattern will be broadly westerly, but whether it'll be a relatively settled flow or nay is up for grabs.

Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 17:49:59

This is a seriously long period of below average 850s on GEFS - over half the run:



Does seem to very out of synch with the other models. Big contrast from only a couple of days ago too. I suspect the overall pattern is not dissimilar but the lows are just that bit further south on GFS.


Wetter than recent ENS too.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Downpour
29 June 2020 18:03:40


 


 


I'm pretty much ignoring the GFS at the moment is been so poor. GEFS are more useful but still poor compared to the ECM ensembles


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


It’s been the formless nag so far this summer. It doesn’t have much support from the other models but we shall see I guess. It tends to be an unsettled ramper, at least this summer.


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Brian Gaze
29 June 2020 18:12:19

Very unusual to see this in the current era.


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&chartname=21_meantemp5dayeuhd_anom&chartregion=euranom&p=21&charttag=5%20day%20temp%20anomaly


 




Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Rob K
29 June 2020 18:27:56


Yep, GFS goes downhill again. Worse even than 06z, though less wet. Either yet another outlier or a trend setter.


EDIT: not an outlier on GEFS. Looking pretty abysmal.


Originally Posted by: TimS 


GFS really keen on a Greenland high to mess up our July.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
29 June 2020 18:39:21

ECM also going for a very warm weekend high 20s in the SE.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
JACKO4EVER
29 June 2020 18:50:47
I smell some form of pattern change, I just hope it’s not as dramatic and wet as some output would have us believe. We seem to be going from cut off low to a string of depressions more akin to Autumn, really poor output for sure.
TimS
  • TimS
  • Advanced Member
29 June 2020 19:15:38


ECM also going for a very warm weekend high 20s in the SE.


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Does look decent. Output is showing 22C on Friday and Saturday, 25C on Sunday then back to 22C on Mon. Probably be one or two degrees warmer than that. 


Bit more mediocre and very chilly later in the run but not wet, at least in the East.


Brockley, South East London 30m asl
Downpour
29 June 2020 19:21:30


 


Does look decent. Output is showing 22C on Friday and Saturday, 25C on Sunday then back to 22C on Mon. Probably be one or two degrees warmer than that. 


Bit more mediocre and very chilly later in the run but not wet, at least in the East.


Originally Posted by: TimS 


 


There’s a notional stand-off between ECM and GFS but it’s largely because the latter has the low a few hundred miles south, a common pattern this summer. ECM is the form horse so fingers crossed. 


Chingford
London E4
147ft
Downpour
29 June 2020 19:23:17

I smell some form of pattern change, I just hope it’s not as dramatic and wet as some output would have us believe. We seem to be going from cut off low to a string of depressions more akin to Autumn, really poor output for sure.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Probably usable weather in the SE quadrant but we shall see. 


Chingford
London E4
147ft
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
30 June 2020 06:54:38

Jetstream in position to keep things unsettled and push depressions across the UK - running first across the S, then the N (Fri 3rd) and back to the centre (Mon 6th), finally weakening by Fri 10th but with a sting in the tail as a local N-S branch appears on Wed 15th. But the BBC outlook contradicted this, showing (like yesterday's ECM) a broad ridge of high pressure across the UK by next Tue 7th. In the meantime connoisseurs of fronts should look at the FAX charts, a real mess for this week, scarcely anywhere in the UK not seeing a front at some time or other.


For the big players, GFS shows the current LP off to N Finland Thu 2nd leaving some quite cold air behind.  The next LP is more of a broad trough with zonal flow across the UK but resolves itself into a definite centre in the northern N Sea Mon 6th. A ridge of HP across the UK on Wed 8th looks promising but fails to fulfil its potential, hanging back in the Atlantic with generally slack pressure gradients over the UK for the following week. To my eye, the later charts look unstable and likely to change as we get closer.


GEFS much like yesterday - for the S cool at first, burst of warmth 4/6th Sat/Mon, sudden drop to about 5C below norm and slow recovery of the mean of runs to norm by 15th though both op and control stay cold. Bits and pieces of rain, never very much.In Scotland an N England, that 'burst of warmth' only just makes it above the norm and there's more rain around with a few runs showing big totals later on


ECM agrees with GFS to Wed 8th but that HP is even less promising with a well-defined depression off NW Scotland the following day pushing the HP off to the south.


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl

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