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Brian Gaze
27 July 2020 20:41:18

Christ on a cracker. Look at these uppers.



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Bertwhistle
27 July 2020 21:03:17

Yeah but where's the GEFS data?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Quantum
27 July 2020 21:06:23


Christ on a cracker. Look at these uppers.


 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


I think it was last year when Cornwall got above 23C uppers, ironically not during the hot spell but during another less significant heatwave. From what I recall the humdity was also very high and the temperatures were not that impressive at all. Around 30C from what I remember.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Brian Gaze
27 July 2020 21:07:31

Yeah but where's the GEFS data?

Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


All here:


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx


Upgraded today from 1 degree to 0.5 degree datasets.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Quantum
27 July 2020 21:12:45

Here you go



 


25C briefly last year which to my knowledge is a record.


 


But like I say temperatures at the surface wern't that impressive. The air was very wet.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
27 July 2020 21:16:41

2m temps around 22C!


Tbf I think they did underestimate and got to around 28-30C.


But still. With a regular sort of lapse rate an 850hpa of 25C corresponds to a upper temp pushing 38C possibly even 40C.


 


So given that 25C 850s were possible, if the plume had been drier and pointed at the SE during the middle of the day (rather than early in the morning) with no cloud/moisture then I reckon 40C+ could have happened soil moisture permitting.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
glenogle
27 July 2020 22:03:26


 


Not true. Regardless of the air temperature, the sun will warm your skin, or any surface, much quicker than it will the air. In fact, the sun cannot warm the air at all. Any heat in the air tends to be warmed from the ground beneath or buildings etc. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


Totally off topic, but 14 degrees is t-shirt weather in my neck of the woods. 20 is hot, mid 20s roasting!  


Its the persistence of the wind up here of late that has caused many an evening chill when sitting out. Kept the midges at bay though!


This Friday is touted to be 26 up here but blink and its gone. Will feel very hot though given its such a rise from the preceeding days.


UserPostedImage LLTNP 105m asl 
Gandalf The White
27 July 2020 22:37:11


 


Not true. Regardless of the air temperature, the sun will warm your skin, or any surface, much quicker than it will the air. In fact, the sun cannot warm the air at all. Any heat in the air tends to be warmed from the ground beneath or buildings etc. 


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


We're rather offf topic but that's not correct: some of the sun's radiation does warm the air directly through the water vapour, dust particles and so on.  Of course a lot of it is the long wave radiation that bounces back from the surface and is absorbed, particularly by CO2 molecules.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Ally Pally Snowman
28 July 2020 06:01:00

Arpege now going for 36c on Friday. Certainly possible with the predicted 850s. All depends on cloud cover if we can get a mainly clearer day then it could happen.


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
28 July 2020 06:26:33

I see your link to the GEFS Brian but without it seems impossible to find?


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
David M Porter
28 July 2020 06:30:32


 


Totally off topic, but 14 degrees is t-shirt weather in my neck of the woods. 20 is hot, mid 20s roasting!  


Its the persistence of the wind up here of late that has caused many an evening chill when sitting out. Kept the midges at bay though!


This Friday is touted to be 26 up here but blink and its gone. Will feel very hot though given its such a rise from the preceeding days.


Originally Posted by: glenogle 


I reckon it only reached about 14 degrees at best here yesterday but it sure didn't feel like t-shirt weather to me!


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Sevendust
28 July 2020 06:54:34


Arpege now going for 36c on Friday. Certainly possible with the predicted 850s. All depends on cloud cover if we can get a mainly clearer day then it could happen.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


34'c would set a new date record

Brian Gaze
28 July 2020 07:01:04


I see your link to the GEFS Brian but without it seems impossible to find?


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Not sure what you mean? 


The correct link is:


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx


All charts can be selected from that page.


E.g. London:


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&lg=850&lglocation=london&charthour=006&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM)



Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Bertwhistle
28 July 2020 07:08:25


2m temps around 22C!


Tbf I think they did underestimate and got to around 28-30C.


But still. With a regular sort of lapse rate an 850hpa of 25C corresponds to a upper temp pushing 38C possibly even 40C.


 


So given that 25C 850s were possible, if the plume had been drier and pointed at the SE during the middle of the day (rather than early in the morning) with no cloud/moisture then I reckon 40C+ could have happened soil moisture permitting.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I think you're talking about the environmental lapse rate aka temperature profile, for which there isn't really a 'regular' one- it's the vertical thermal profile and changes frequently according to changes in air mass, inversion set-ups etc.


The more 'regular' LRs are the dry and saturated adiabatic lapse rates which do have approximate regular temperature changes with altitude, but these relate to so-called 'parcels' of air rising or sinking and are not a comparative measure for surface and upper air values.


At least, I think I remember correctly. Nonetheless, the potential for the high temperatures you mention could be there.


To models, and I'm looking forward to the restoration of the regular GEFS link: when the outlook is less than summery in the Op, it gives a little flicker of hope. 


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
Bertwhistle
28 July 2020 07:12:27


Thanks Brian; but up until yesterday I was able to access the GEFS Perts and locations directly from the chart viewer page, 


Now although the Ps are listed, as are the locations, none of them responds when clicked. Think that might be Snowman's problem too?


Bertie, Itchen Valley.
Retire while you can still press the 'retire now' button.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
28 July 2020 07:12:59

Jetstream running W-ly across the UK suddenly flips S-ly for one day only (Fri 31st, well telegraphed elsewhere) before resuming W-ly in a somewhat fragmented fashion and finishing with a loop enclosing the UK from Mon 10th but leaving the UK on the cold side of the stream


The very brief heat wave (ripple?) on Friday isn't enough to show up on the 10-day average with the N Atlantic including UK and Norway in a bight of generally cool weather esp in week 2, matched by heaviest pptn over W-facing coasts of Ireland, Scotland and Norway.


GFS - after this week with LP to the W and HP to the E giving the burst of hot air Thu/Fri, there is a series of small LPs running across the UK, tending to be in the N, and occasionally bringing some distinctly cold air S-wards (e.g. Fri 7th - by rights, this should attract as much attention as Fri 31st .. hmm) . Just a chance of fine and dry weather with HP arriving on Thu 13th.


GEFS - monstrous temp spike Fri 31st but back below norm two days later, recovering to norm Wed 5th after which mean is a little above norm though op mostly below (contrasting with just one monstrously and persistently hot run but only appearing in the S). Rain in the S spread around mostly Mon 3rd - Fri 5th, more continual from Sat 1st the further N and into Scotland that you go.


ECM has minor differences from GFS e.g. a trough lingers for a day after the heat this Friday; the LP on Fri 7th arrives a day earlier i.e. Thu 6th


[TWO chart viewer only diplaying GEFS & ECM intermittently]


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Ally Pally Snowman
28 July 2020 07:32:39


 


Originally Posted by: Bertwhistle 


Thanks Brian; but up until yesterday I was able to access the GEFS Perts and locations directly from the chart viewer page, 


Now although the Ps are listed, as are the locations, none of them responds when clicked. Think that might be Snowman's problem too?



 


Spot on Bert.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Brian Gaze
28 July 2020 08:35:40


 


Thanks Brian; but up until yesterday I was able to access the GEFS Perts and locations directly from the chart viewer page, 


Now although the Ps are listed, as are the locations, none of them responds when clicked. Think that might be Snowman's problem too?


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


Spot on Bert.



Ok. I've put a fix in place so you can now access from the old chart viewer here:


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


However, there is a bigger selection of GEFS charts available on the new viewer which is:


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx


For example, the anomaly charts are available. 


https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&chartname=21_meantemp5dayeuhd_anom&chartregion=euranom&p=21&charttag=5%20day%20temp%20anomaly


Also, there will be a wider selection of cities to select from on this page due to the upgrade from 1 degree to 0.5 degree which went in yesterday.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Rob K
28 July 2020 09:56:16


Arpege now going for 36c on Friday. Certainly possible with the predicted 850s. All depends on cloud cover if we can get a mainly clearer day then it could happen.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


It's amazing how easily we seem to be able to get 20C 850mb temps and 35-36C maxima even in brief one-day-wonder spells these days.


 


BTW take a look at run 7 on the 00Z GEFS which has a four-day run of >20C 850s  https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_table.php?ext=1&x=298&y=170


 


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
briggsy6
28 July 2020 10:43:21

Personally speaking I have my fingers crossed that it doesn't come off.


Location: Uxbridge
Brian Gaze
28 July 2020 14:15:11


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
picturesareme
28 July 2020 15:30:34



Arpege now going for 36c on Friday. Certainly possible with the predicted 850s. All depends on cloud cover if we can get a mainly clearer day then it could happen.

 

 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



The air will be humid/ moisture laden which will make it much harder to heat, although large urban areas & areas down wind from large built up areas might overcome this issue.

severnside
28 July 2020 22:07:31

Tonight's 12z ECM rinse and repeat for next Friday ??

Heavy Weather 2013
29 July 2020 06:03:21
This weeks burst of heat aside. August is looking very interesting.

Quotas a few runs going up to 20 850s. Could it be a bit 2003?
Mark
Beckton, E London
Less than 500m from the end of London City Airport runway.
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
29 July 2020 06:56:05

GFS - Friday's blast of heat nailed on and cold front from W displacing the warm air on Saturday (I'm a little surprised and disappointed that no more than occasional thunderstorms forecast). Then a shorter period than yesterday's forecast with LP moving across from the Atlantic, also less deep and less cold than yesterday, with HP and fine warm weather established from SW by Sat 8th and persisting for the week until pushed back by LP moving south over Scandinavia Fri 14th


GEFS - temps peak Fri 31st, dip Mon 3rd, then [new since yesterday] mean of runs rise above normal Sat 8th slowly dropping back (though first the op and then the control are cold outliers at different times). Rain in the S most likely around Mon 3rd but otherwise very little. Similar in Scotland with slightly more chance of rain than in the S but still much less than yesterday.


ECM - like GFS but both the LP next week (Tue 4th) and HP later (Fri 7th) are centred a little further south than GFS 


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl

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