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Hippydave
01 December 2022 11:11:55
Re the usual 'it looks dry other than favoured spots comments, as is usually pointed out each time a colder spell is looming it's essentially pointless looking at any chart showing snow (or precip generally) at more than 48-72 hours - no model will get troughs, shower development etc. right at range or even remotely right a lot of the time. The GFS op show cold (ish) air for a prolonged period with LP not too far away along with cold air moving over comparatively warm seas. That will all enhance shower activity and increase the chances of more organised precip. Whether the air is cold enough for snow if that happens is a touch debateable imo although it looks 'okay' for a fair chunk of the time. 

Overall it's looking encouraging for cold air to make it over pretty much the whole of the UK but LP being more influential and cutting off the cold flow remains a real possibility, as is LP to the South making it further North and introducing milder air for some.  Currently though cold air UK wide (after the initial chilly push from the east) is IMO favoured although for IMBY at least I'd probably put it at 40% cold, 30% chilly and 30% mild/average. Further North the odds would change more heavily in favour of cold as the pattern is one where that's more likely.

When you look back at November's relentless mild south westerlies and the run of week after week of above average temps this year (usually significantly above average too), the fact we have a definite chilly start to Winter is surprising and having a decent possibility of a cold spell with some snow around is even more surprising. Hopefully the second part of the pattern verifies!
Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Saint Snow
01 December 2022 11:45:21

Re the usual 'it looks dry other than favoured spots comments, as is usually pointed out each time a colder spell is looming it's essentially pointless looking at any chart showing snow (or precip generally) at more than 48-72 hours - no model will get troughs, shower development etc. right at range or even remotely right a lot of the time. The GFS op show cold (ish) air for a prolonged period with LP not too far away along with cold air moving over comparatively warm seas. That will all enhance shower activity and increase the chances of more organised precip. Whether the air is cold enough for snow if that happens is a touch debateable imo although it looks 'okay' for a fair chunk of the time. 

Overall it's looking encouraging for cold air to make it over pretty much the whole of the UK but LP being more influential and cutting off the cold flow remains a real possibility, as is LP to the South making it further North and introducing milder air for some.  Currently though cold air UK wide (after the initial chilly push from the east) is IMO favoured although for IMBY at least I'd probably put it at 40% cold, 30% chilly and 30% mild/average. Further North the odds would change more heavily in favour of cold as the pattern is one where that's more likely.

When you look back at November's relentless mild south westerlies and the run of week after week of above average temps this year (usually significantly above average too), the fact we have a definite chilly start to Winter is surprising and having a decent possibility of a cold spell with some snow around is even more surprising. Hopefully the second part of the pattern verifies!

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 




👍

Sage words, my hippy friend.

 

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gusty
01 December 2022 12:04:00
This all feels a bit like the onset of the February 2021 week long freeze up that delivered snow to many eastern areas between 7-14th February. We are 8 weeks earlier so naturally the environment will be generally warmer and more marginal should 'proper cold from the NE ensue.

From memory we were worrying about the behaviour of the Iberian low and its potential to chuck up energy too far north and fire up a low in the North Sea preventing fast and efficient advection from the NE. Back in Feb 2021 we didn't need to worry, although there was a 12 hour delay due to the above factor.

I'm more encouraged this morning. If we can keep energy over Europe then we stand a chance of getting the cold pattern in.

Get this pattern in place and let the synoptics do the rest. The longer this holds as we move into December the better the opportunities of seeing the white stuff even to lower levels of the south.

Interesting times. 



 
Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
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Crepuscular Ray
01 December 2022 12:09:35
The GFS 06z keeps most of us in cold air for 16 days with winds between N and E! Might be well placed for snow showers here in the run up to Christmas if that verifies
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
doctormog
01 December 2022 12:14:02

Absolutely. I think all the indicators so far point to this being another localised affair for a few favoured spots with 80%+ of the UK population unaffected. Few people care much if it's snowing on the Beacons or in Aberdeen, one might as well report on the weather in the French Alps.

I hope to be wrong, of course. 

Originally Posted by: Downpour 



What a load of tedious IMBY nonsense.
johncs2016
01 December 2022 12:17:13

The GFS 06z keeps most of us in cold air for 16 days with winds between N and E! Might be well placed for snow showers here in the run up to Christmas if that verifies

Originally Posted by: Crepuscular Ray 


I am hoping as well, that the air will be cold enough to deliver some decent snow to here in the north of Edinburgh, instead of what we had to witness in the winter of 2012/13 when the south of Edinburgh got a lot of deep snow with the north of Edinburgh getting nothing more than a bit of sleet and wet snow with none of that actually lying here.

If all goes well though, this kind of setup is capable of delivering deep snow even to here in the north of Edinburgh, and that is obviously what I'm hoping for.
The north of Edinburgh, usually always missing out on snow events which occur not just within the rest of Scotland or the UK, but also within the rest of Edinburgh.
nsrobins
01 December 2022 12:27:22

What a load of tedious IMBY nonsense.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Not like you to sit on the fence 😂
There'll always be sone suspect IMBY shallow thinking at this time of year especially and I guess you have the ignore button (if it's still there?).
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Whiteout
01 December 2022 12:46:44
Great to see some long time posters back 😀

Best model watching for me since 2018. When the Met start to get on board with the forecasts you know there is something in the air 😁
Home/Work - Dartmoor
240m/785 ft asl
nsrobins
01 December 2022 13:03:20
https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&lg=850&lglocation=london&charthour=006&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM) 

One of the variables I use is the mean GEFS at 850. (London - as a reference). When it hugs -5 for several days then the potential for lowland snowfall is quite high IMO.
A very decent set there to be honest.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
doctormog
01 December 2022 13:09:08

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&lg=850&lglocation=london&charthour=006&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM) 

One of the variables I use is the mean GEFS at 850. (London - as a reference). When it hugs -5 for several days then the potential for lowland snowfall is quite high IMO.
A very decent set there to be honest.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



I use a similar approach too Neil and from past experience such an ensemble set more often than not results in some wintry outcomes at some point.
westv
01 December 2022 13:13:56
We'll know when things are ramping up when we get a daily MO thread. 😁
At least it will be mild!
nsrobins
01 December 2022 13:16:10

We'll know when things are ramping up when we get a daily MO thread. 😁

Originally Posted by: westv 


What do you know - you've only been around for 20yrs 😂😂
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Saint Snow
01 December 2022 13:27:46

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gefs.aspx?run=na&lg=850&lglocation=london&charthour=006&chartname=ps_500hpa&chartregion=na-region&p=1&charttag=PS%20500hPa%20(GPDM) 

One of the variables I use is the mean GEFS at 850. (London - as a reference). When it hugs -5 for several days then the potential for lowland snowfall is quite high IMO.
A very decent set there to be honest.

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 




There's remarkable similarities between different locations across the UK, too. Compare London, Liverpool, Glasgow, Sheffield & Aberdeen, and they're all pretty similar. There's not even that much difference on 'snow row' numbers (obviously a bit bigger numbers the further north/more elevated)

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Hungry Tiger
01 December 2022 15:14:01
Atm I think we're getting a little too carried away. Hope I'm wrong.
 
Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Tim A
01 December 2022 15:39:33
If we are to get a classic spell it will be a slow burner.   Tapping into the properly cold air may take some time and we need everything to go right if we are even going to get there. 
If the Uppers are -5C to -8c with a strong easterly and pressure of 1025mb it won't be particularly wintery.  A northerly or slacker flow, or embedding system though and things could be different. 
Tim
NW Leeds
187m asl

 My PWS 
ballamar
01 December 2022 15:44:08
ICON looks to be setting up nicely for potential cold
GFS shaping up nicely as well
doctormog
01 December 2022 17:13:31

Atm I think we're getting a little too carried away. Hope I'm wrong.
 

Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


Carried away in what way? The models show an extended period of colder than average conditions which is a bit of a novelty in recent months. I'm not sure that anyone is suggesting snowmageddon or a deep freeze. At the very least it looks seasonal for early winter with the possibility of some wintry weather. The trend has been consistent I think the majority of comments on here reflect that, as does the 12z output so far.
Rob K
01 December 2022 17:17:48
12Z GFS is the snowiest op run I have seen for a while, with the whole UK snow covered by the end,

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2022120112/gfs-16-384.png?12 
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
01 December 2022 17:21:44
GEMs turn to go pair shaped this time. Very good GFS 12z though. Very snowy! 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Hippydave
01 December 2022 17:24:28

12Z GFS is the snowiest op run I have seen for a while, with the whole UK snow covered by the end,

https://modeles16.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2022120112/gfs-16-384.png?12 

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



Was just about to post that I was expecting to see a few more comments on the 12z op - cracking run with cold air in place until the end and generally deeper cold than the 6z version.

It's a shame the real fun IMBY starts around day 8 still, means another few days of waiting before having a bit more confidence in the evolution. Certainly nice to look at though, hopefully the ens back it up and ECM's op produces something equally pleasant😁
Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
nsrobins
01 December 2022 18:03:16
Have the UKM employed a new script writer for the forecasts:
'Snow and snow showers are expected at times across high-ground areas'

I've never seen them use the term 'high-ground areas' before. 'Over high ground' maybe but that's a new one on me, and doesn't read too well IMHO.
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nsrobins
01 December 2022 18:06:01
And the EC starts rolling out for the greatest and most important run since, well, the last crucial run which was the 00Z 😂
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Brian Gaze
01 December 2022 18:10:40
UK Met Global looks very good for a decent cold spell. T+168 chart.

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Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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doctormog
01 December 2022 18:21:29

And the EC starts rolling out for the greatest and most important run since, well, the last crucial run which was the 00Z 😂

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



This is the day 5 chart: https://www.wetterzentrale.de/maps/ECMOPEU12_120_1.png  

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