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Retron
08 December 2023 10:28:28

Channel 5 is showing "White Christmas of 1981" on Saturday evening.  At least we cannot rule it out at this stage, normally its a done deal by now for a green xmas

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Probably the closest to a textbook White Christmas in my lifetime, even if at the age of 2 I can't remember it. Apparently my mum and dad went to a disco in Gravesend on Christmas Eve, and it was snowing as they came out. The snow stopped before midnight, though, and it was a dry Christmas Day with a decent snow cover.

There's only been one occasion since with snow on the ground on Christmas Day, in 2010 - there was a small patch left over from a few days before. And there's also been one day with sleet, and one with about 10 tiny snowflakes which didn't amount to anything, but both of those were, in theory, White Christmases here.

I'm still holding out for a proper one, mind you, snow falling and snow on the ground. The odds of that are still very low, but at least it's a tiny bit higher than the usual zero chance!
Leysdown, north Kent
nsrobins
08 December 2023 10:40:06
The only 'true' white Christmas down in deep south (snow falling and settling on Christmas Day) was 1970. Snow fell in showery form on Xmas morning and again Boxing Day. I remember building a snowman in Titchfield, Hampshire where we lived on Christmas afternoon.
1981 was not a technical here as the day itself was cold and mostly dry (maybe a bit of cold rain), although inland there was snow still lying from the 20th.
Now over 50yrs since and still counting!
Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
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Retron
08 December 2023 10:51:54

The only 'true' white Christmas down in deep south (snow falling and settling on Christmas Day) was 1970. Snow fell in showery form on Xmas morning and again Boxing Day. I remember building a snowman in Titchfield, Hampshire where we lived on Christmas afternoon.
1981 was not a technical here as the day itself was cold and mostly dry (maybe a bit of cold rain), although inland there was snow still lying from the 20th.
Now over 50yrs since and still counting!

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Indeed, 1970 was the last one here as well. My wording was a bit ambiguous, when I said "closest to a textbook White Christmas", I meant the closest we've come without having one - a couple of hours away from it. There has been snow on Boxing Day a few times too, notably in the 90s, but again it's several hours out. It's just one of those weird statistical quirks, a bit like the way until this year the 13th June was the only day in June not to have recorded a high of 30C.

It's good to see the 6z GFS continues the trend from the 0z, albeit via a different mechanism: our intense high slides away eastwards, a new cell forms over the Atlantic and we pull down a cold feed. The 0z had our high wobbling its way west instead.
 
Leysdown, north Kent
jhall
08 December 2023 10:59:01

The only 'true' white Christmas down in deep south (snow falling and settling on Christmas Day) was 1970. Snow fell in showery form on Xmas morning and again Boxing Day. I remember building a snowman in Titchfield, Hampshire where we lived on Christmas afternoon.
1981 was not a technical here as the day itself was cold and mostly dry (maybe a bit of cold rain), although inland there was snow still lying from the 20th.
Now over 50yrs since and still counting!

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Much the same here regarding 1970 and 1981, though in the latter year we still had a good full cover here. Mind you, I've always felt that the bookies' definition of a White Christmas that has become generally accepted, of snow falling on the day itself, is a bit dubious. I imagine they've chosen that over snow lying because it's harder to predict a few days ahead. We just about had over 50% snow cover in 2009 and full cover in 2010.
Cranleigh, Surrey
Saint Snow
08 December 2023 11:11:15

Probably the closest to a textbook White Christmas in my lifetime, even if at the age of 2 I can't remember it. Apparently my mum and dad went to a disco in Gravesend on Christmas Eve, and it was snowing as they came out. The snow stopped before midnight, though, and it was a dry Christmas Day with a decent snow cover.

There's only been one occasion since with snow on the ground on Christmas Day, in 2010 - there was a small patch left over from a few days before. And there's also been one day with sleet, and one with about 10 tiny snowflakes which didn't amount to anything, but both of those were, in theory, White Christmases here.

I'm still holding out for a proper one, mind you, snow falling and snow on the ground. The odds of that are still very low, but at least it's a tiny bit higher than the usual zero chance!

Originally Posted by: Retron 




From memory, I've had two *proper* white Xmas's:

1996 (I think) - a cold snap around the 25th was predominantly dry. On the 25th, we woke to a covering of snow that had fallen sometime in the early hours (I'd gone to bed around 1am and it hadn't snowed by then). Was only 1-2cm, but it had already frozen. and I remember deep blue clear skies. The roads were treacherous

2004 - a coldish and unstable NW'ly flow was well forecasted a fair bit in advance. This was the year I had three white Xmas bets that all won. Here, the snow (flitted between flake and soft hail) started early afternoon and the showers kept coming. Left around 5cm by dusk. The skies then cleared and temps plummeted. Again, the roads that night were treacherous; we used to do the in-laws in the day and my parents on the night and we left fairly early.

Plus we've had three with a good level of snow on the ground:

1981 - I remember that by Boxing Day, there'd been a fair bit of partial thaw/re-freeze so it was thick ice

2009 - Again, showers from the NW got more wintry until the weekend before Xmas when they went full snow/soft hail and continued through the week (would freeze under clear skies, then more showers, and so on - the best 'snow on snow' period I can recall here). We had around 12cm lying by Xmas Day. A gentle thaw set in Boxing Day and really hit on the 27th

2010 - We were one of the last regions to get the snow in the spell (although we didn't have to suffer the one or two milder blobs during an overall monumentally cold spell) but when we got it, we really got it. 16cm (was around 25cm just a few miles north of here) fell on Friday 17th, and we hardly lost any depth come Xmas Day. Again, though, the thaw set in on the 27th.

There's been a couple of 'technical white Xmas' incidences, too

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
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Aneurin Bevan
Russwirral
08 December 2023 11:50:53

From memory, I've had two *proper* white Xmas's:

1996 (I think) - a cold snap around the 25th was predominantly dry. On the 25th, we woke to a covering of snow that had fallen sometime in the early hours (I'd gone to bed around 1am and it hadn't snowed by then). Was only 1-2cm, but it had already frozen. and I remember deep blue clear skies. The roads were treacherous

2004 - a coldish and unstable NW'ly flow was well forecasted a fair bit in advance. This was the year I had three white Xmas bets that all won. Here, the snow (flitted between flake and soft hail) started early afternoon and the showers kept coming. Left around 5cm by duck. The skies then cleared and temps plummeted. Again, the roads that night were treacherous; we used to do the in-laws in the day and my parents on the night and we left fairly early.

Plus we've had three with a good level of snow on the ground:

1981 - I remember that by Boxing Day, there'd been a fair bit of partial thaw/re-freeze so it was thick ice

2009 - Again, showers from the NW got more wintry until the weekend before Xmas when they went full snow/soft hail and continued through the week (would freeze under clear skies, then more showers, and so on - the best 'snow on snow' period I can recall here). We had around 12cm lying by Xmas Day. A gentle thaw set in Boxing Day and really hit on the 27th

2010 - We were one of the last regions to get the snow in the spell (although we didn't have to suffer the one or two milder blobs during an overall monumentally cold spell) but when we got it, we really got it. 16cm (was around 25cm just a few miles north of here) fell on Friday 17th, and we hardly lost any depth come Xmas Day. Again, though, the thaw set in on the 27th.

There's been a couple of 'technical white Xmas' incidences, too

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 




1996 - Correct. We were under a northerly flow and it was a polar low type feature that ran down the Irish sea, the year I got a bike for Xmas and couldnt use it for about 2 weeks because of ice

2004 - correct  - I was living in manchester at the time and woke on Xmas day to a covering, which turned white later that day.  Went to Wirral on Boxing day and although it started green and wet, showers started to feed in on more of a NWerly and we ended with about 2-3inches of snow, my brother played in the local pub in a band that night and made for a real xmassy feel.  This was probably the best xmas snow weve had.


1981 - Before my time

2009 - wasnt spectacular on Wirral, we had some frosts, we had to wait for Jan 5th - Things got crazy in Liverpool

2010 - again one of those spells where everywhere but you got their bonanza fall.  We saw an inch or 2.
howham
  • howham
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
08 December 2023 11:56:34
I thought this might be useful to save going OT in the Model Output Thread.

Will reminisce later on 😀
Essan
08 December 2023 12:03:15
I've only woken to snow on the ground on Christmas Day twice:  1981 (Essex Coast, near Maldon) and 2010 (Evesham).   On both occasions there was heavy snow before Christmas Day - but nothing fell on the day itself.  

Only time I've seen a proper snowfall (ie more than just a few flakes giving a best a slight dusting) on the 25th December was 1989 - I was in a bothy in the Scottish Highlands at the time 😀

With Christmas Eve falling in a Sunday, I reckon this is the best year to have some proper Christmas snowfall - so long as the roads are open again by the 27th!
Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
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Ally Pally Snowman
08 December 2023 12:09:32
Saint Snow
08 December 2023 12:10:20
👍

Mods - could you possible transfer the White Xmas memories posts to this one?

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
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Bertwhistle
08 December 2023 20:37:24

Probably the closest to a textbook White Christmas in my lifetime, even if at the age of 2 I can't remember it. Apparently my mum and dad went to a disco in Gravesend on Christmas Eve, and it was snowing as they came out. The snow stopped before midnight, though, and it was a dry Christmas Day with a decent snow cover.

There's only been one occasion since with snow on the ground on Christmas Day, in 2010 - there was a small patch left over from a few days before. And there's also been one day with sleet, and one with about 10 tiny snowflakes which didn't amount to anything, but both of those were, in theory, White Christmases here.

I'm still holding out for a proper one, mind you, snow falling and snow on the ground. The odds of that are still very low, but at least it's a tiny bit higher than the usual zero chance!

Originally Posted by: Retron 



Cold December with flurries from 8th in 1981, more snow until 11th and heavy but went quickly on 13th. Rest of month was very cold and exciting but without real snow...until I went to stay with my girlfriend in Chatham on 20th. Snow thick on ground and icy packed until 27th, when I went home. Back in Hants, rubbish until the big snow of Thursday 7th January. By 10th I admitted for the first time ever I was tired of snow (and could keenly remember January 1979).

1994 had sleety stuff for a while. 1996 definitely had wake-up-time snowflakes drifting westwards on St Giles Hill (Winchester). 

2009 had leftover snow on Christmas Day in the gutters. 2010 was all front-loaded with several early December moments (especially 1st) but no snow here at Christmas, although an unblemished carpet N of Stockbridge (& still on lower ground) all day. Magic memory.
Bertie, Itchen Valley.
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Jive Buddy
08 December 2023 20:55:50
When reminiscing, remember nostalgia is not what it used to be...
 
It's not over, until the fat Scandy sinks.....

Location: St. Mary Cray, S.E. London border with Kent.
Gusty
08 December 2023 21:15:44
Christmas / or near Christmas Snow for me.

1981 - Xmas Eve - Rain/Snow threatened to melt the 8cm from 21st but some patchy cover held on in the shade for the big day.
1984 - A wintry shower on Boxing day.
1985 - Rain turned to wet snow late on 26th, wintry showers the next day.
1993 - Snow early on the 24th. 1.5cm at Whitfield at 9am.
1996 - A light snow flurry at 2pm on the big day itself, blink and you would have missed it stuff.
2000 - A very brief wintry shower on the 25th
2001 - A light evening wintry on the 26th
2004 - Nearly so nearly on the 25th A wall of snow moved up the Channel and threatened the SE coast. It maintained an w-e movement resulting in just the edge of Dungeness getting a dusting at 5pm.
2005 - Heavy snow showers developed late on the 26th. Light cover by the end of the day.
2010 - The patchiest of light snow cover on the 25th in the shade at home (35m asl). A winter wonderland 2 miles away at 160 m ASL.
2023 - 4cm of fresh snow added to the 4cm from the 23rd as a polar low moves south across the country in the northerly flow.
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DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
08 December 2023 21:21:29
Dec 31st 1962 - left London on the overnight coach for Preston to join friends there for a skiing holiday in Scotland - we were students and doing it on the cheap. 

At a roundabout near St Albans the first flurries of snow were swirling around, but I left that behind. There was then a very slushy journey in an ancient unheated car up to the YH in Glen Isla (Blairgowrie) to wake up the following morning to a foot of powder snow down to the hostel, and a week of blue skies and uninterrupted sunshine.

And we all know what that heralded from early 1963 ...
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
08 December 2023 21:49:04

When reminiscing, remember nostalgia is not what it used to be...
 

Originally Posted by: Jive Buddy 


Yes, it's been downgraded. Almost no one on here can actually remember 1947/48 or even 1962/63.
Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
jhall
08 December 2023 22:02:49

Dec 31st 1962 - left London on the overnight coach for Preston to join friends there for a skiing holiday in Scotland - we were students and doing it on the cheap. 

At a roundabout near St Albans the first flurries of snow were swirling around, but I left that behind. There was then a very slushy journey in an ancient unheated car up to the YH in Glen Isla (Blairgowrie) to wake up the following morning to a foot of powder snow down to the hostel, and a week of blue skies and uninterrupted sunshine.

And we all know what that heralded from early 1963 ...

Originally Posted by: DEW 



I could rabbit on about that winter for hours. After a foggy high for 2-3 days around the Solstice, with maxima around 3C, the winter really began when a bitter easterly set in a couple of days before Christmas. The snow began here around dusk on Boxing Day, and we wouldn't see the grass again till 1st March. There was about 7 inches overnight 26th/27th. That fell with only a light wind, but the next snowfall overnight 29th/30th was a classic NEly blizzard. It was worst in the West Country, but even here we had at least another 7". There was so much drifting that it was hard to get an accurate estimate, especially as I was trying to measure snow that was now 14 inches deep with a one foot ruler! And then there was another fall on the evening of New Year's Eve that, though it only lasted two or three hours, added another 4 inches.

After that, though it remained extremely cold, we only had one other heavy fall during the rest of the winter, unlike some other regions.
Cranleigh, Surrey
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
08 December 2023 22:56:22

I could rabbit on about that winter for hours. After a foggy high for 2-3 days around the Solstice, with maxima around 3C, the winter really began when a bitter easterly set in a couple of days before Christmas. The snow began here around dusk on Boxing Day, and we wouldn't see the grass again till 1st March. There was about 7 inches overnight 26th/27th. That fell with only a light wind, but the next snowfall overnight 29th/30th was a classic NEly blizzard. It was worst in the West Country, but even here we had at least another 7". There was so much drifting that it was hard to get an accurate estimate, especially as I was trying to measure snow that was now 14 inches deep with a one foot ruler! And then there was another fall on the evening of New Year's Eve that, though it only lasted two or three hours, added another 4 inches.

After that, though it remained extremely cold, we only had one other heavy fall during the rest of the winter, unlike some other regions.

Originally Posted by: jhall 



I was living in Merseyside in the winter of 62/63 and after one notable fall early on, there were no further falls and the abiding memory is of months of frost with icy pavements but only on the shady side of the street and increasingly grey looking (due to the air pollution) lying snow in gardens through to March. I can vividly recall on the morning of the start of the thaw and the first rain (there was no snowy breakdown) during school assembly our headmaster gave thanks during payers for deliverance from the awful winter.
Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
sunny coast
08 December 2023 23:41:10
1968 was another Christmas with snow cover where we lived in the Birningham area . Rain turned to snow Xmas eve pm and was 6 inches or so deep by Christmas morning.   
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
09 December 2023 07:10:44

Yes, it's been downgraded. Almost no one on here can actually remember 1947/48 or even 1962/63.

Originally Posted by: RobN 



As one of the few, I can remember 1947 (not 1948) but refrained from commenting here as the first significant snow was just before my 5th birthday in late January of that year. Maybe if we get round to a Jan/Feb memories thread?
War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
sunny coast
09 December 2023 07:59:02
I can recall 62 3 in Hastings East Sussex and recall the huge piles of snow heaped up half way up lampposts . In the spring the council collected it and dumped it.  I was only 5  . 
the initial falls were the worst there at the end of Dec it snowed for some 36 hours as the front coming south stalled  across the south east  and then the bitter easterlies behind it set in 
howham
  • howham
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
15 December 2023 14:22:20
Living in NE Scotland, I think I've been in a fairly good location for Christmas Day snow over the years.  Here are the ones I can remember:

1993 - Heavy snow showers and decent snow cover on the ground.

1995 - Heavy snow showers, wind and deep snow cover on the ground.  A few days later we had blue skies and bitter cold (-20C).

1996 - A brief snow flurry in the morning as the sun rose.

1999 - A technical white Christmas as rain briefly turned to wet snow in an otherwise grey, wet day.

2000 - Thin snow cover on the ground and snowed on Christmas Eve but somehow nothing fell on the day.

2001 - Snow showers and snow on the ground.

2004 - Snow showers and snow on the ground. 

2009 - Thick snow on the ground but a brief mild sector gave rain on the day.

2010 - A little snow fall and thick snow on the ground after a sensational December.

2020 - Some thin patchy snow left in the garden from the day before.

Looking at archived photos, we've also had some recent near misses for snowfall:

2022 - Snowed on Boxing Day
2020 - Snowed on Xmas Eve
2017 - Snowed on 27th December
2016 - Snowed on Boxing Day
2013 - Snowed on Xmas Eve

 
Saint Snow
15 December 2023 14:35:55

I was living in Merseyside in the winter of 62/63

Originally Posted by: RobN 




I always thought you were a lot younger than that! 😮

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Retron
15 December 2023 14:41:22
You know how some people get broody, wanting a baby? Or how others get the same feeling for a dog? Well, I think I'm getting it for snow!

Not helped by poring through a photo album, which included pictures of my 5-year-old self in the snow in the same garden which is now green and muddied.

Combined with posts on the MO thread, it reminded me of why I love snow so much at this time of year (and why I'm so disappointed most years). As I write this it's half two in the afternoon, cloudy and dull. The lights are on indoors and it's the sort of day where you're glad to be in a warm, cosy environment. Truth be told, the past couple of days it's been dull even at noon, a reminder of just how low the sun is in the sky at this time of year.

You know what would make it better? Snow, of course. A thick blanket on the ground would not only make things brighter, in that special way that reflected light from snow does, but it muffles and dampens sound - there's a hush all over the land, or something like that! Of course with various lights on show (from bright green ones on the main road from the parish council, to the invariably white or yellow ones people have these days, and even my own 1980s multicoloured Christmas tree lights) it would feel even more special were it to snow...

All I want is just one proper white Christmas before I snuff it. I don't have any family to share it with any more, but damn it I really don't want to die having never seen snow falling and settling on the day... 53 years this year, and that's far too long really (bear in mind I'm 44!)

That said, every winter I'm thankful for being the age that I am. My childhood coincided with regular deep (6"+) snowfalls, icicles, ice days and all the rest. The weather was magical, and though some years it didn't snow, you could rely on it snowing again a year or two later. That all stopped when I turned 18, and the snow events then have generally been fleeting and unimpressive. The late Philip Eden said at the time that 2005 would be the last great easterly, and he was right (it snowed every day for 2 weeks in 2005, and it was wonderful).
2018 is as near as we've come since, but it was snuffed out only a couple of days after it started... a tantalising glimpse of what we once had, what we once accepted as normal, unremarkable.

I know for most there are more opportunities, and as Howham has posted, up north it's not even that unusual to have snow. But down here in the far SE, sheltered from anything from the north, we really do need an old school easterly. As I posted many years back, the death of the midwinter easterly is a mystery. Until it comes back - if it ever does - we'll just have to make do with scraps, and be thankful for whatever dusting of snow might be eked out.

Ah well, not long until the 12z runs come out. As usual, you'll find me poring through the various models and ensembles, ever on the look out for that elusive snowy spell!
Leysdown, north Kent
Brian Gaze
15 December 2023 14:59:10
The best white Christmas I've experienced in the UK was in 1995. I was staying with my parents in Hunmanby which is a few miles inland from the east coast. As I recall, the snow started accumulating late morning and it fell thick and fast through the rest of the day. By Boxing Days the hedges on the Yorkshire Wolds (which Hunmanby backs on to) were buried under snow, with drifts several metres deep. There were further snow showers in the days which followed, but only 15 miles or so further inland it was completely green. IIRC, Malton was close to the western extent of the snow.

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Brian Gaze
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Saint Snow
15 December 2023 15:12:44
I sympathise, Darren!

We only live a couple hundred miles away from each other (as the crow flies) but very different records of snowfalls!

Your snowy childhood wasn't replicated here (you'll have seen me moaning about 87 being bone dry here!). We did get a few big (6"+) falls that I remember, but not with the frequency of down there. The 80's snowfalls seemed to more regularly come from easterlies.

But we've always seemed to have regular falls. The problem being that, apart from a small handful (78/9 and twice in 81/2 spring to mind), they didn't stay around long (a few days at best). I was hopeful that the falls of Dec 09, Jan 10, Dec 10 (all between 8 and 20+ days on the ground - and by that I mean more than 50% cover) would have heralded more longevity, but sadly not.

Even in 2013, when we had 3 falls of 10cm+ (plus another around 7cm and one or two of 1-2cm), they were gone within a few days/week.

The annoyance is that, since that snowy 2013, we've not had one single snowfall top 5cm. Not one. And it's snowed at least once in almost every winter since, in some winters we've had 3/4/5 separate coverings. A few miles away from here (where it's no higher altitude) in the 20/21 winter, they had around 6-7cm at least once, whilst we had at most 3-4cm. The Boxing Day 2014 freak fall was probably the deepest at 4-5cm, but that was all gone by the morning anyway.

 

Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan

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