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Crepuscular Ray
08 January 2024 18:38:05

You should be able to use that, but the best option on TWO is (for GFS)

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/gfs.aspx 

If you click / tap the GFS button on this page it expands to show most of the models currently on TWO, so you can select as you want.

The full list model and data inventory is this:

https://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/model-inventory.aspx 

It has links to the models and data table, custom graphs etc.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



Thanks Brian. All those links are still zooming into Labrador, not sure what else I can do?

I could delete TWO and reinstall but I'm a bit worried I won't get back in!
Jerry
Edinburgh, in the frost hollow below Blackford Hill
Gandalf The White
08 January 2024 18:44:38

Much colder and snowier in low lying Sussex than forecast today. BBC and Met office had top temps of 3-4 for me today but it struggled to get above 1 all day. Plus the ‘drizzle’ turned out to be dry snow all day. So points deducted there too. 

 

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



Don’t forget you only get a snapshot every 24 hours on the ECM 0.5 model; if you do a similar 24-hour step on GFS the same thing happens.  It looks fine out to T+168 with a strong upper block from the Arctic down through Greenland and the split PV.
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


ballamar
08 January 2024 18:49:48
ECM looks promising at 192 with the blocking looking promising over Greenland 
Gandalf The White
08 January 2024 18:51:38

ECM looks promising at 192 with the blocking looking promising over Greenland 

Originally Posted by: ballamar 



Indeed, tonight the ECM has been cast in the role of the cavalry appearing over the hill to rescue the situation.

Even better at T+216 with a rock solid block; need to see where the Op sits in the ensemble suite but pretty decent evolution as things stand.

Here’s the UK view of the 850hPa temperatures: https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=0&map=3&type=0&archive=0 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Ally Pally Snowman
08 January 2024 18:56:34

ECM looks promising at 192 with the blocking looking promising over Greenland 

Originally Posted by: ballamar 



Very December 2010 by the end. Good run
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
moomin75
08 January 2024 18:57:21

Very December 2010 by the end. Good run

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Always at 240hrs though, never at 24.
Take this with a huge pinch of salt.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Polar Low
08 January 2024 19:01:00

Indeed, tonight the ECM has been cast in the role of the cavalry appearing over the hill to rescue the situation.

Even better at T+216 with a rock solid block; need to see where the Op sits in the ensemble suite but pretty decent evolution as things stand.

Here’s the UK view of the 850hPa temperatures: https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=0&map=3&type=0&archive=0 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Thats a big snow event as that low moves west to east at 168 for Northern Parts
Run it on wx
http://wxcharts.com/?panel=default&model=ecmwf,ecmwf,ecmwf,ecmwf®ion=europe&chart=overview,850temp,wind10mkph,snowdepth&run=12&step=174&plottype=10&lat=51.500&lon=-0.250&skewtstep=0 
 
Rob K
08 January 2024 19:01:46

Always at 240hrs though, never at 24.
Take this with a huge pinch of salt.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Yes, there's nowhere colder in winter than the UK at T240. 😁
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
moomin75
08 January 2024 19:02:57

Yes, there's nowhere colder in winter than the UK at T240. 😁

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


LOL. That's what I thought. Great period of model watching nonetheless. 
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
doctormog
08 January 2024 19:05:02

Always at 240hrs though, never at 24.
Take this with a huge pinch of salt.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 



Yes that run ends on a cold note but the cold moves in as has been shown for about five days now on the 14th to 15th (north to south). Just because it is looking very wintry at day 10 it doesn’t mean things are stuck at day 10. In the middle of last week I noted that t850s of -5 were due here from the north later on the 14th (Sunday), around five days have passed and the time that the -5 t850s reach here is still Sundy albeit 12 hours or so earlier than originally programmed. The always at day 10 thing is a fallacy.

What is not a fallacy though is the uncertainty in terms of extent and duration of cold and of course any snow. The GFS is one scenario, the ECM another. Both are in the same broad trend but the details of both (and resulting weather) are markedly different. 

There are no doubt many more twists and turns in the rollercoaster.
Joe Bloggs
08 January 2024 19:05:39
12z ECM is epic. 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

ballamar
08 January 2024 19:12:46

Yes that run ends on a cold note but the cold moves in as has been shown for about five days now on the 14th to 15th (north to south). Just because it is looking very wintry at day 10 it doesn’t mean things are stuck at day 10. In the middle of last week I noted that t850s of -5 were due here from the north later on the 14th (Sunday), around five days have passed and the time that the -5 t850s reach here is still Sundy albeit 12 hours or so earlier than originally programmed. The always at day 10 thing is a fallacy.

What is not a fallacy though is the uncertainty in terms of extent and duration of cold and of course any snow. The GFS is one scenario, the ECM another. Both are in the same broad trend but the details of both (and resulting weather) are markedly different. 

There are no doubt many more twists and turns in the rollercoaster.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



spot on 
fairweather
08 January 2024 19:27:07

High risk high reward setting. It all looks a bit messy on the output this evening but it also looks very very snowy in places. With variability between runs in terms of detail at that range I would expect further changes in the coming runs. The air is so cold and unstable in this setup that features look like popping up somewhere, whether that means milder or snowier rea mains very much to be determined.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Like I said, "blizzards or tears" 😀
S.Essex, 42m ASL
Polar Low
08 January 2024 19:50:29
The Beast from the East
08 January 2024 20:22:17

More pleasing the ecm mean, Opp must have support 
https://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=0&type=1&archive=0 
 

Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



Surprisingly good compared to the rubbish GFS gave us
 
"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Joe Bloggs
08 January 2024 20:30:11

Surprisingly good compared to the rubbish GFS gave us
 

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



I’ve had a look at the EPS members and there are some very snowy runs in there. 

p32 for example https://modeles3.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/ecmwf/run/gens-32-1-216.png?12 

 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Hippydave
08 January 2024 20:48:15
 (south based IMBY alert)
Must admit after the somewhat iffy GEM and GFS for MBY, was expecting ECM to go messier than that but it ends with a massive blocking high and cold over the whole country. 

So from a down here perspective and looking at ops then ens:-

UKMO, can only see to T168 but to that point it's a fantastic run for countrywide cold.
ECM, flirts with 'meh' T144-168 but relents and drags down cold air at T216. (The train is barrelling towards us at T192).
GFS, high risk scenario but mostly cold with a brief mild incursion, amusingly flat and mild looking end in deep la la land.
GEM, allows some cold air in initially before a blob of HP slinks into France and helps nudge LP over the UK too far and we get a snow to rain event and colder air doesn't make it back over the far south, hard to say if it would post T240.

GFS ens are a bit tail on the donkey although there's a cluster that have 5 days of colder uppers. Not a lot of confidence from those but no confidence for mild winning either happily.
GEM ens are all over the place, even more so than what I've seen over the past week or two (not convinced how useful they are TBH, so much scatter even before this evening). 
ECM ens are pretty good in comparison, yes some milder scatter but a reasonable cold cluster which have 5-6 days of colder uppers.
MOGREPS, hard to tell as shorter timeframe. They show the initial cold shot around 15th Jan then there's a rise, need to see where that goes over the next couple of days.

Leaving the south centric musings aside, it's a positive picture still if you want cold, with variations on a theme. I still reckon GFS is doing the play with a new signal, overdo it thing and will moderate back towards something a bit more ECM like but as ever, more runs needed. GEM maybe doing the same - despite how well it verifies these days I always feel it goes off on one sometimes, particularly at range.  All in all there's clearly a realistic chance of a less favourable mild/cold balance for the far south but not a unanimous signal and there's a decent chance even here of 5-6 days of cold. The further north you head, the more confidence there is in a cold outcome and you'd like to think there'd be some good snow chances too. 
Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Joe Bloggs
08 January 2024 20:56:38
FWIW, these are the 12z EPS postage stamps.

Day 6 - https://images.meteociel.fr/im/86/23965/gens_panelhzf5.php.png 

Day 8 -

https://images.meteociel.fr/im/11/23156/gens_panelcyq3.php.png 
 

Manchester City Centre, 31m ASL

Gandalf The White
08 January 2024 21:21:43
Today’s ECM ensemble mean for 10hPa winds has dipped close to a reversal a week from now.

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time=202401080000 
 
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


UncleAlbert
08 January 2024 21:23:15
Quote (Doctormog, earlier),
''What is not a fallacy though is the uncertainty in terms of extent and duration of cold and of course any snow. The GFS is one scenario, the ECM another. Both are in the same broad trend but the details of both (and resulting weather) are markedly different.'

Just goes to show how a solid looking cluster (temperature wise) can mask synoptic inconsistency.  Though the prospect of an very interesting spell of weather for cold weather fans next week may be in the order of around 50/50, I would feel more confident if that clustered run of sub -5c days was produced by a set of less varied synoptics.
Ally Pally Snowman
08 January 2024 21:27:18

Today’s ECM ensemble mean for 10hPa winds has dipped close to a reversal a week from now.

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time=202401080000 
 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Twice in a couple of weeks seems unusual.  Will hopefully help weaken the Strat significantly 
 

 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
White Meadows
08 January 2024 21:34:30

Today’s ECM ensemble mean for 10hPa winds has dipped close to a reversal a week from now.

https://charts.ecmwf.int/products/extended-zonal-mean-zonal-wind?area=nh&base_time=202401080000 
 

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

Encouraging. 
Should raise prospects for something colder late Jan/ early Feb. 

 
fairweather
08 January 2024 21:36:21

(south based IMBY alert)
Must admit after the somewhat iffy GEM and GFS for MBY, was expecting ECM to go messier than that but it ends with a massive blocking high and cold over the whole country. 

So from a down here perspective and looking at ops then ens:-

UKMO, can only see to T168 but to that point it's a fantastic run for countrywide cold.
ECM, flirts with 'meh' T144-168 but relents and drags down cold air at T216. (The train is barrelling towards us at T192).
GFS, high risk scenario but mostly cold with a brief mild incursion, amusingly flat and mild looking end in deep la la land.
GEM, allows some cold air in initially before a blob of HP slinks into France and helps nudge LP over the UK too far and we get a snow to rain event and colder air doesn't make it back over the far south, hard to say if it would post T240.

GFS ens are a bit tail on the donkey although there's a cluster that have 5 days of colder uppers. Not a lot of confidence from those but no confidence for mild winning either happily.
GEM ens are all over the place, even more so than what I've seen over the past week or two (not convinced how useful they are TBH, so much scatter even before this evening). 
ECM ens are pretty good in comparison, yes some milder scatter but a reasonable cold cluster which have 5-6 days of colder uppers.
MOGREPS, hard to tell as shorter timeframe. They show the initial cold shot around 15th Jan then there's a rise, need to see where that goes over the next couple of days.

Leaving the south centric musings aside, it's a positive picture still if you want cold, with variations on a theme. I still reckon GFS is doing the play with a new signal, overdo it thing and will moderate back towards something a bit more ECM like but as ever, more runs needed. GEM maybe doing the same - despite how well it verifies these days I always feel it goes off on one sometimes, particularly at range.  All in all there's clearly a realistic chance of a less favourable mild/cold balance for the far south but not a unanimous signal and there's a decent chance even here of 5-6 days of cold. The further north you head, the more confidence there is in a cold outcome and you'd like to think there'd be some good snow chances too. 

Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


This the best overall synopsis I have seen so far in the past few days. We've not had these types of cold charts for some years but I get the feeling from them that this winter, especially the rest of January, is going to be cold with the odd milder incursion rather than the usual mild with the hope  of a cold spell.. I find the Met Office current outlook a bit odd with the talk of average cold with rain and drizzle especially after todays heavy snow (not settled) that Darren forecast when they were still calling rain and 6C. They are definitely under playing the over play. 😉
S.Essex, 42m ASL
fairweather
08 January 2024 22:03:53
The 12z and ECM 12z ensembles are now a fairly solid cluster wise that the forthcoming cold spell starting Jan 15th will last about 5 days but of course by then it may get prolonged . Both models showing  a mean of around -5C for London and -7C for Aberdeen for that spell, maybe slightly worse towards the end. Today's snow had lower 850's than that but the 500 hPa is much colder by  then. Will this affect the chance of snow then? Hopefully the ground will be a bit drier and cooler as well to aid settling. 
S.Essex, 42m ASL

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