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Gooner
17 July 2013 22:50:37


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn28817.png


And beyond


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Matty H
17 July 2013 22:50:38

Of course. Nobody is saying anything else. I do wonder what your agenda is in saying any warmish charts are unlikely to come off but latching onto any showing a breakdown. Why can;t we just discuss what the output actually shows, and the implications that would have, rather than trying to score points?
not trying to score points, but if i am dissed for latching on to show charts with a breakdown , i am quite likely to comment on cherry picked hot charts a week away. live and let live i say .

Originally Posted by: bledur 



Then why bring it up? Again?

We're getting rather tired of having to delete posts from here. It's almost inevitable when the winter trolls arrive November, but mid summer?

Lets keep it purely about the models from here on, whether that be cherry-picked charts or ens mean, I really don't care.

Anymore - and I mean it - OT, point scoring posts will be deleted and users warned or suspended. We don't want to do either.

Onward.
Gooner
17 July 2013 22:55:39


I'll accept the +20 isotherm if we finally get the -20 this winter as payback ( though I'll accept -15)  


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I couldn't argue with that ..............sensible


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Jiries
17 July 2013 23:04:38
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn16817.png  As ever those maximums are likely to go up and down a bit (and +/-2C on the day). But looks hot.


This is amazing to see the charts confident to keep it 30-31C all the time and nothing is stopping it.

Medlock Vale Weather
17 July 2013 23:08:55

I'm tempted to say uncomfortable heat and humidity almost a cert for early next week 🤤

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Oh god I hope not, been warm indoors but not unbearable, wanted it to stay that way haha


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Steam Fog
18 July 2013 04:39:33
Hot temperatures again next week (maxes of 30/31C even 32C for 23/24/25th July) on this morning's GFS before the rains come pouring in at the end of the week!
Gusty
18 July 2013 05:25:06

Hot and humid runs this morning with a thundery breakdown looking increasingly likely now from Thursday 25th July. The GFS 0z then goes on to bring a rain fest as the low pressure develops over the UK and deepens to bring a spell of windy and cooler weather thereafter. It's not the first time it has shown such a scenario in recent days.


A complete disaster if this verifies as I am camping with my wife and two young cchildren in Cornwall from 26th for 2 weeks.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
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Gooner
18 July 2013 06:38:49

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2281.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2284.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn22817.png


This would be a shock to the system


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


GIBBY
18 July 2013 07:30:00

Hi folks and good morning. Here is the morning day by day rundown of the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM and what they mean for us on the surface over the coming 10-14 days forward from today Thursday July 18th 2013.


All models currently show High pressure moving slowly North over the UK with the fine and very warm or hot conditions persisting for some time to come. Subtle changes will occur over the coming days and these are threefold. Firstly the persistent cloud and occasional rain over Scotland will move away North to allow these areas to share in the warmth of areas further South over the coming days. Secondly the highest temperatures will transfer over to the West and SW of the UK as a light Easterly breeze develops across the South and thirdly low cloud and mist will affect many Eastern and some Central counties in the morning's of the coming days clearing by late morning away from the coast itself and consequently holding temperatures down a little on recent values. All areas will stay largely dry but isolated showers or thunderstorms could develop each late afternoon and eve and perhaps a little more widely across Southern England by Monday.


GFS then shows the UK locked in very warm and slack conditions synoptically with no pressure area having overall control. The weather would most likely be humid and still largely dry with a few thunderstorms scattered about, more likely over the South. Late in the week and the weekend more substantial rainfall would develop as Low pressure finally trundles up from the South introducing cooler and fresher air with time from off the Atlantic. Thereafter the latter part of the run suggests cooler and more changeable conditions from an Atlantic regime with occasional rain, average temperatures and rain at times, especially in the North.


The GFS Ensembles still show that around the 26th is the most likely day of change to cooler and more changeable weather as Low pressure looks likely to introduce this change SW to NE across the UK followed by more changeable weather with Low pressure close to the North with fronts crossing East over the UK in a traditional changeable summer pattern.


The Jet Stream is the item that brings about this change. As a response to the declining High pressure area in a week or so the flow relocates South to an Eastward moving flow across the Atlantic and across Southern Britain in the second half of the run.


UKMO today shows pressure having leaked away through the early stages of next week to sub 1015mbs by midweek. This would probably be sufficient enough to spark off rather more thundery showers than previously though at this stage there would continue to be a lot of very warm, bright and humid weather about as there are no major low pressure systems indicated at that time.


GEM today is the pick of the bunch if it is a continuation of the very warm or hot weather your looking for as it maintains a strong influence of High pressure close to or over the UK all next week with only very isolated storms and prolonged sunny spells and temperatures easily reaching 30C at times. The run does degenerate into something more thundery and eventually cooler and fresher in the final days though as a GFS type breakdown looks likely.


NAVGEM today shows a trend toward a somewhat thundery period next week, especially in the South as a cool pool of air undercuts the High pressure over the North as it moves SE over France. It would remain warm or very warm at the surface with more cloud than of late with thundery showers while the North stays largely dry, fine and warm.


ECM today shows changes next week to be slow with a lot of fine and very warm weather still to be found over a large swathe of the UK though next week. High pressure remains largely in control close to northern Britain through the week and though thundery air tries to make progress up from the South through the week it is not until almost the weekend it succeeds with any particular vigour to bring a spell of welcome thundery rain to many Southern and Southeastern parts though it may never reach the North in what will still be temperatures well above average for many if rather humid.


In Summary the pattern remains as shown last night with GFS leading the field in suggesting a change in conditions from around the 26th, well supported by its ensembles. However, the other models remain less than convinced by such a marked change suggesting a rather more gentle approach synoptically though this may be less gentle at the surface as thunderstorms become more likely towards the end of next week. As said before all other models other than GFS show a much less progressive evolution with High pressure remaining close enough to maintain at least some of the very warm air near the UK and with no major Low pressure systems to exert pressure on the High it wouldn't take much for it to rebuild and settle the weather down fully again and don't be surprised if this is hinted at over the coming days outputs. So taking all this into account on balance the weather could be a lot worse and though the very perfect Summer conditions many parts of the South have seen of late may modify somewhat there is still a lot of very decent weather shown in this morning's output.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Andy Woodcock
18 July 2013 07:49:34
Good summary Gusty, this current lengthy spell of fine weather associated with an upper ridge is a complete contrast to the prevailing conditions during the last 6 summers and the ridge now established will be reluctant to shift as the through was!

Yes there will be temporary breakdowns but I don't buy the GFS solution and I think the warm weather in varying degrees will be maintained for several more weeks.

The puzzle for me is the Meto MRF's, the Meto forecasts were hopeless at predicted the arrival of the heat wave despite cross model support at the end of June and have wrongly been predicting a breakdown in the 7-10 day timeframe since it arrived. If I was involved in the UK tourism industry I would be furious as they seem to be endlessly talking down the UK summer weather.

So much for the Meto GW bias, it's exactly the opposite!

I am a fan of Meto forecasts but the MRFs have been appalling this summer and could have cost the UK Tourism industry lot of money.

As for their 'poor summers for 10 years statement' issued in June can someone ask them to issue a 'mild winters for 10 years' forecast in October!

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Downpour
18 July 2013 08:05:34

Good summary Gusty, this current lengthy spell of fine weather associated with an upper ridge is a complete contrast to the prevailing conditions during the last 6 summers and the ridge now established will be reluctant to shift as the through was!

Yes there will be temporary breakdowns but I don't buy the GFS solution and I think the warm weather in varying degrees will be maintained for several more weeks.

The puzzle for me is the Meto MRF's, the Meto forecasts were hopeless at predicted the arrival of the heat wave despite cross model support at the end of June and have wrongly been predicting a breakdown in the 7-10 day timeframe since it arrived. If I was involved in the UK tourism industry I would be furious as they seem to be endlessly talking down the UK summer weather.

So much for the Meto GW bias, it's exactly the opposite!

I am a fan of Meto forecasts but the MRFs have been appalling this summer and could have cost the UK Tourism industry lot of money.

As for their 'poor summers for 10 years statement' issued in June can someone ask them to issue a 'mild winters for 10 years' forecast in October!

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 



Superb post Andy - bang on the money.
Chingford
London E4
147ft
RavenCraven
18 July 2013 08:28:01

Thanks Gibby. Nice to hear that there is no real significant change coming despite the odd random chart selected.

18 July 2013 08:39:31

My thinking is a real building of heat next week (the hottest conditions so far) but an increasing risk of thunderstorms leading to a slightly more "diluted" period of the warm spell (i.e still warm/very warm but not as hot and perhaps with a few more showers around) but high pressure never far away and building back in again with the hotter and sunnier conditions returning.


Stuck my neck out a bit with that prediction on my page last night but I just think the GFS may be overdoing how low pressure becomes influential and pushes the high pressure away (as it often does). Also, I remember this time a week ago where the models showed high pressure being pushed away only for it to stay influential.


P.S. Re-assuring to see Gibby mentioning that in his summary

Matty H
18 July 2013 08:45:45

My thinking is a real building of heat next week (the hottest conditions so far) but an increasing risk of thunderstorms leading to a slightly more "diluted" period of the warm spell (i.e still warm/very warm but not as hot and perhaps with a few more showers around) but high pressure never far away and building back in again with the hotter and sunnier conditions returning.


Stuck my neck out a bit with that prediction on my page last night but I just think the GFS may be overdoing how low pressure becomes influential and pushes the high pressure away (as it often does). Also, I remember this time a week ago where the models showed high pressure being pushed away only for it to stay influential.


P.S. Re-assuring to see Gibby mentioning that in his summary

Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 



Agree re speed/intensity of breakdown
18 July 2013 08:54:07


My thinking is a real building of heat next week (the hottest conditions so far) but an increasing risk of thunderstorms leading to a slightly more "diluted" period of the warm spell (i.e still warm/very warm but not as hot and perhaps with a few more showers around) but high pressure never far away and building back in again with the hotter and sunnier conditions returning.


Stuck my neck out a bit with that prediction on my page last night but I just think the GFS may be overdoing how low pressure becomes influential and pushes the high pressure away (as it often does). Also, I remember this time a week ago where the models showed high pressure being pushed away only for it to stay influential.


P.S. Re-assuring to see Gibby mentioning that in his summary


Originally Posted by: Matty H 



Agree re speed/intensity of breakdown

Originally Posted by: ManUtdMatt1986 


A lot depends on that cut off low. Just hope the plume doesn't end up further east. That would be disappointing! Even worse would be if the low just smashed straight into us, though I'd be surprised if it managed to shift our high!


Looks to me that on the last 2 GFS runs that cut off low has been a bit slower to form and the plume has been slightly weaker as a result (?)

David M Porter
18 July 2013 08:57:06

Good summary Gusty, this current lengthy spell of fine weather associated with an upper ridge is a complete contrast to the prevailing conditions during the last 6 summers and the ridge now established will be reluctant to shift as the through was!

Yes there will be temporary breakdowns but I don't buy the GFS solution and I think the warm weather in varying degrees will be maintained for several more weeks.

The puzzle for me is the Meto MRF's, the Meto forecasts were hopeless at predicted the arrival of the heat wave despite cross model support at the end of June and have wrongly been predicting a breakdown in the 7-10 day timeframe since it arrived. If I was involved in the UK tourism industry I would be furious as they seem to be endlessly talking down the UK summer weather.

So much for the Meto GW bias, it's exactly the opposite!

I am a fan of Meto forecasts but the MRFs have been appalling this summer and could have cost the UK Tourism industry lot of money.

As for their 'poor summers for 10 years statement' issued in June can someone ask them to issue a 'mild winters for 10 years' forecast in October!

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


I don't normally criticise the MetO for their forecasts as most of the time they are pretty accurate (short range ones at least). However as you say Andy, no one can deny that recently their MRFs haven't exactly been bang on the money. Whether this has been due to a large amount of uncertainty in the models that they use I'm not sure, but again for me it shows just how difficult medium and long range forecasting with any accuracy often is.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Jiries
18 July 2013 09:02:02

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1202.gif


Look at the warm uppers over North Sea so that would help to raise the temps up nicely.

Essan
18 July 2013 09:23:29



As for their 'poor summers for 10 years statement' issued in June can someone ask them to issue a 'mild winters for 10 years' forecast in October!

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 





http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/no-prediction-for-a-decade-of-washouts/

http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/media-coverage-on-wet-summers-for-a-decade/


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Charmhills
18 July 2013 09:29:36

Very warm if not locally hot/humid and increasingly thundery into next week especially, for the south at first.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Charmhills
18 July 2013 09:38:46




As for their 'poor summers for 10 years statement' issued in June can someone ask them to issue a 'mild winters for 10 years' forecast in October!

Andy

Originally Posted by: Essan 





http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2013/07/08/no-prediction-for-a-decade-of-washouts/

http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/media-coverage-on-wet-summers-for-a-decade/


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


Thanks Andy.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Stormchaser
18 July 2013 10:02:13

It's no suprise to see GFS taking the jet stream on the simplest route from A to B in early FI, the net result being the Atlantic troughs meeting up with the thundery low and combining to give a spell of wet and windy weather. In fact I take the signs of improvement thereafter as very encouraging given how often GFS runs away with Atlantic onslaughts.


The other models offer a variety of solutions, most of them not ramping up the low pressure as much as GFS. The general consensus among those is for Atlantic LP to be somewhere to the NW on days 9 and 10, that either lifting out our thundery low or in the case of ECM having nothing to do with it.


UKMO is still handling the energy very differently, not building the high pressure as much and then bringing slack LP across the south by day 6. Relative to the other model runs it's a bit of a flop. It's worth noting that the model has been rather inconsistent of late, which reduces the weight of it's contribution this morning.


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nsrobins
18 July 2013 10:02:53

If I may be permitted to step away from all the mud that's being thrown around at the moment, could someone please post a link to the 'forecast from the Met Office in June' that predicted a wet and cool summer?


 


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Sevendust
18 July 2013 10:14:38


If I may be permitted to step away from all the mud that's being thrown around at the moment, could someone please post a link to the 'forecast from the Met Office in June' that predicted a wet and cool summer?


 

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


They didn't. I suspect a Mr N.Rao may have a quote in an article somewhere

18 July 2013 10:25:12

GFS 6z has the cut off low much further north, near south west England. The result is the temperatures are a little lower and more thundery activity toward western areas

Rob K
18 July 2013 10:41:23
Yes the 06Z waters down the plume and eventually just blasts the heat away from the west. Not a fitting end to this spell. Next!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
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