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Essan
30 July 2013 14:02:14




Is something wrong with this mornings ECM on Wetter?

It's so different to other models next week with greens everywhere it must be a glitch unless they have put up charts from early August last year!

I hope they don't verify or the central heating will be back on.....

Andy

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Greens on the 500mb charts maybe but the 850mb temperatures are still pretty high! http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.gif


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 



Is this right?  The 850mb temperatures on here seem extraordinary - the northerly extent of the 20c isotherm seems more akin to what we might have experiened in the Jurassic!


Andrew


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Yes it looks like at least 5C has been added to the temps. I think it's OK up to 120 hours and then turns the sun up to 11! 


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 



Last week there was one run that was showing surface temps of over 100c !    Obviously a bit of a processing glitch at Wetterzentrale .....


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Gavin P
30 July 2013 14:06:35

Hi all,


Here's today's video update - Early August Update;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Still not really sure about August - First week looks pretty hot.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Scandy 1050 MB
30 July 2013 15:49:29


Hi all,


Here's today's video update - Early August Update;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Still not really sure about August - First week looks pretty hot.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


 


Thanks Gavin, hoping you were going to do a video on the different solutions each set of runs is producing currently - such big model swings at the moment from run to run which from memory are quite rare in Summer. Do not envy you with your August forecast this year!  But of course will enjoy the video

David M Porter
30 July 2013 16:39:06



Hi all,


Here's today's video update - Early August Update;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Still not really sure about August - First week looks pretty hot.


Originally Posted by: Scandy 1050 MB 

 


Thanks Gavin, hoping you were going to do a video on the different solutions each set of runs is producing currently - such big model swings at the moment from run to run which from memory are quite rare in Summer. Do not envy you with your August forecast this year!  But of course will enjoy the video


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


I've noticed that as the GFS and UKMO 12z runs are coming out, even by T+144 those two models are disagreeing with each other. The interesting thing is from what I can see that GFS seens to be showing pressure as being a lot higher over Greenland than UKMO does, although we can't see it in full on UKMO. I think FI probably starts less than a week ahead right now.


 


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
bledur
30 July 2013 17:13:01

"Bledur's is the ground temperature following just one run (operational? or the average maybe of the ens?)."


That is not correct , the red line shows temp max, the blue line shows temp min and the yellow line shows soil temps. that is an ensemble i linked . here it is again although i struggle to get the link to work


http://www.weatherweb.net/tvweather/londontempens.gif

Steam Fog
30 July 2013 17:41:21

"Bledur's is the ground temperature following just one run (operational? or the average maybe of the ens?)."


That is not correct , the red line shows temp max, the blue line shows temp min and the yellow line shows soil temps. that is an ensemble i linked . here it is again although i struggle to get the link to work


http://www.weatherweb.net/tvweather/londontempens.gif

Originally Posted by: bledur 



It looks like the maximum and minimum temperatures from one run to me (op or mean I would guess). If it was the whole ensemble set it would have more variation I would imagine.
bledur
30 July 2013 17:50:04

no it is the gfs ensemble. if you go to weatherweb and then charts, then gfs ensembles, then uk cities ,that is what comes up. if it is not the ensemble chart i can only say i was mislead by the links to the charts. in the forecast it is described as an ensemble chart so thats what i thought.

Steam Fog
30 July 2013 17:58:27
As an example here is the 06z GEFS T2m temperature chart.

http://images.meteociel.fr/im/37668/graphe_ens4_ere2.gif 

If you look out into the low resolution part of the run you see very warm temperatures (warmer than the end of this week) cropping up in run no 6 on the 8th and 9th of August. I can't see anything like that in the chart you linked to? (nor an indication of which run it was). There were similar warm temperatures in run 04 of the 00z and run 9 of the 12z. All outliers, but nothing to suggest this in the link you posted which does not seem to take into account the range of different ensemble output (perhaps because it is just one run or else the mean).

So it may be possible you are mistaken.
sriram
30 July 2013 18:00:42


Hi all,


Here's today's video update - Early August Update;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Still not really sure about August - First week looks pretty hot.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


 


thanks Gavin


Like your sneak preview at Jan 2014 - looks tasty



Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Rob K
30 July 2013 18:04:15

12Z GFS backs away from prolonged warmth in August. Looks like time to dig the sweaters out, sadly. :(


 


Still a huge amount of scatter, but I suspect the warm members will gradually vanish. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
bledur
30 July 2013 18:06:43

steam fog ,well i am confused now. that chart is used in the forecast. he descibes it as the gfs ensemble and seems to think it has some creedence rather than operational runs. perhaps it is an adjusted chart.

Steam Fog
30 July 2013 18:06:52

12Z GFS backs away from prolonged warmth in August. Looks like time to dig the sweaters out, sadly. :(

Originally Posted by: Rob K 



Looks pretty warm up to the end of the first week, after that the operational was very much at the colder end of the pack. Maybe a little early to dig out sweaters.
Ally Pally Snowman
30 July 2013 18:07:14


12Z GFS backs away from prolonged warmth in August. Looks like time to dig the sweaters out, sadly. :(


 


Still a huge amount of scatter, but I suspect the warm members will gradually vanish. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Some very hot runs in there outside chance of a severe hot spell.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gavin P
30 July 2013 18:25:24



Hi all,


Here's today's video update - Early August Update;


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Still not really sure about August - First week looks pretty hot.


Originally Posted by: Scandy 1050 MB 


 


Thanks Gavin, hoping you were going to do a video on the different solutions each set of runs is producing currently - such big model swings at the moment from run to run which from memory are quite rare in Summer. Do not envy you with your August forecast this year!  But of course will enjoy the video


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Yeah, we're getting a lot of inter-run variation and quite big ensemble shifts as well - When this happens it's usually a sign that some sort of pattern shift is in the works.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Gooner
30 July 2013 18:40:20



12Z GFS backs away from prolonged warmth in August. Looks like time to dig the sweaters out, sadly. :(


 


Still a huge amount of scatter, but I suspect the warm members will gradually vanish. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Some very hot runs in there outside chance of a severe hot spell.


 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Worst case temps won't be far from todays values I would havr thought


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Stormchaser
30 July 2013 18:56:57

ECM and UKMO remain more progressive than GFS tonight. They really have given up on the idea of energy digging to our SW/S and a ridge holding to our east. ECM does look like it could easily have brought a breif surge of heat from 144h, but LP just drifts NE as the ridge behaves like a ghost.


I'm not saying that ECM and UKMO wrong, as developments to the NE - fuelled by Thursday's plume, in fact- look to intefere with the Euro-ridge and could well lead to it being as feeble as shown for 144-168h.


GFS is still flying the flag for a waft of heat and potentially something more than that going by GEFS, but it's lost a lot of support from the other models over the past 24 hours.




To be honest none of the output looks all that convincing to me - something has the models in a frenzy, and as Gavin P says that could mean a pattern shift is coming. That'll make the CET competition that little bit more interesting than usual


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Whether Idle
30 July 2013 19:04:20
GFS holding firm. No worries. Considerable bursts of heat on offer.
Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Polar Low
30 July 2013 19:14:48

Does it thou Rob?? when u look at the mean thats a long run above average for london other than one day the period between 31st July  and 10th August all above average for London.


Also ens can also be misleading as for example if you look at the mean on the 5th of August next Monday for example very nice chart indeed for southern England


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-21-1-144.png?12



12Z GFS backs away from prolonged warmth in August. Looks like time to dig the sweaters out, sadly. :(


 


Still a huge amount of scatter, but I suspect the warm members will gradually vanish. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Stormchaser
30 July 2013 19:22:47

For the 96-144h period, I've just compared the jet stream charts from the very progressive GEM with the far less progressive GFS, and found almost no difference. There seems to be a difference in how the models handle a given setup with the jet behaving in a particular way.


Not a lot of help then


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Keep Calm and Forecast On
GIBBY
30 July 2013 19:58:48

Good evening. Here is my version of the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday July 30th 2013.


The General Situation. A warm front is beginning to move North across the UK over the next 6 hrs and will of made its Way up to Scotland by tomorrow evening. It will be at it's strongest in the West but weak elsewhere with rain and drizzle for many for a time. A moist Southerly flow then follows with some warm and humid sunshine later tomorrow and for much of England and Wales on Thursday when it will become very warm or hot. Through Friday and the weekend the weather looks like gently cooling down again as a weak cold front crosses the UK Friday into Saturday. No major thundery weather is shown by any model at this juncture and a slow trend to a weekend of fresh air, sunny intervals and scattered showers is shown by most output.


GFS then shows a showery eek next week as Low pressure to the West early in the week transfers slowly East then NE to the North Sea by Friday. Showers could be locally heavy in the afternoons. Little change is shown towards the end with further showery days in slack winds and average temperatures.


The GFS Ensembles still show two hikes in temperatures in the South, one over the coming days and another next week. the weather cools off beyond that with a greater chance of rain, mostly in showery form. The North sees little benefits from these warmer phases with more unsettled conditions throughout with rain at times. The operational for Scotland was a cold outlier in the far reaches of the run.


The Jet Stream seems set in it's current latitudes for the foreseeable future flowing across the Atlantic in an undulating form and crossing the UK on a NE track.


UKMO tonight shows a very slack pressure gradient over the UK early next week with light winds as a result. With cool uppers aloft the weather could well be rather showery with slow moving and heavy showers in places, mostly during the daytime's.


GEM has a showery start to next week with shallow Low pressure close by. Later in the week a ridge from an Atlantic High moves across the North and sinks SE to the South later with attendant fine, bright and warm conditions for most, at least for a time.


NAVGEM has a more unsettled feel about it next week with a thundery Low moving up from the South and settling over the top of the UK from midweek with showers or rain at times with cooler air after a warm start to the week.


ECM shows a showery pattern too early in the week with average temperatures. Later in the week it shows a vigorous Atlantic depression moving in from the NW with bands of rain and strong winds crossing all areas to be followed by squally showers behind. With all the wind and showers needless to say it would feel a good bit cooler than recently should it evolve.


In Summary there is likely to be two fairly short bursts of summer warmth to affect Southern and Eastern Britain over the next week. The longevity of these look very short on tonight's output with a slightly firmer suggestion of more definitively cooler weather beyond a week's time with the ECM model on the extreme end of this scenario. The majority of output though holds a trough somewhere near the UK next week with light winds and slow moving showers, some heavy the most likely outcome with little suggestion that I can see of any nationwide sunny and very warm conditions at the moment.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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cowman
30 July 2013 20:08:15
Thanks martin.
Sevendust
30 July 2013 20:41:11



12Z GFS backs away from prolonged warmth in August. Looks like time to dig the sweaters out, sadly. :(


 


Still a huge amount of scatter, but I suspect the warm members will gradually vanish. http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Some very hot runs in there outside chance of a severe hot spell.


 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Think I'm looking at different ensembles to Rob!  Two bursts of heat amongst at least average ensembles which in early August are at the peak anyway. Even given an unsettled scenario its going to be pretty humid and consequently feel warm, especially at night

Gooner
30 July 2013 22:27:14

early part of next week is cooler run from GFS 18z


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn14417.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn16817.png


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


NickR
30 July 2013 23:10:03


steam fog ,well i am confused now. that chart is used in the forecast. he descibes it as the gfs ensemble and seems to think it has some creedence rather than operational runs. perhaps it is an adjusted chart.


Originally Posted by: bledur 


The ens are the whole set of runs (20 in the GFS, I think). Your link shows one set of figures only. So either it is one run or it is the ensemble mean. Either way, it's as clear as you can get that it does not present all the ensemble runs.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
31 July 2013 05:51:36


Good evening. Here is my version of the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday July 30th 2013.


The General Situation. A warm front is beginning to move North across the UK over the next 6 hrs and will of made its Way up to Scotland by tomorrow evening. It will be at it's strongest in the West but weak elsewhere with rain and drizzle for many for a time. A moist Southerly flow then follows with some warm and humid sunshine later tomorrow and for much of England and Wales on Thursday when it will become very warm or hot. Through Friday and the weekend the weather looks like gently cooling down again as a weak cold front crosses the UK Friday into Saturday. No major thundery weather is shown by any model at this juncture and a slow trend to a weekend of fresh air, sunny intervals and scattered showers is shown by most output.


 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Another day, another run! MetO have now put out a warning of heavy rain fro Fri night/Sat morning from central S England up to East Anglia


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Chichester 12m asl
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