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RobSnowman
09 September 2013 17:59:25


 


Really could do with a bit of luck there - a challenging time for me now as I prepare to take on a Masters in Meteorology at Reading University.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Good luck with the Masters SC. I couldn't bring myself to do another year at uni. All that work, when will you get time to post!?


I built this snowman of myself.
cowman
09 September 2013 19:22:59
ECM gets rid of that low all together
Stormchaser
09 September 2013 19:29:42



 


Really could do with a bit of luck there - a challenging time for me now as I prepare to take on a Masters in Meteorology at Reading University.


Originally Posted by: RobSnowman 


Good luck with the Masters SC. I couldn't bring myself to do another year at uni. All that work, when will you get time to post!?


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Thanks Rob I'll do the best I can to keep posting. Remaining a moderator as well... now that's going to take some doing, but I'm willing to give it my best shot as I enjoy helping to keep this forum clear of nasty content




It seems ECM also responded to my post with some kind charts:


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20130909/12/ecmt850.168.png


LP a long way N of where it was on the 00z op run


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20130909/12/ecmt850.216.png


Decent ridge builds in, accompanied by some warm air - albeit TM air that benifits nights more than days. This is the kind of thing GFS was consistently showing until yesterday evening.


I think the main difference to the GFS 12z op and the 00z ECM op is the development of LP near Greenland; the runs that take this further then divert the energy downstream to the NE, taking that vicious storm with it.


In terms of how that strong LP is developed, UKMO resembles ECM far more than GFS. NAVGEM is similar and follows ECM:


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2013090912/navgem-0-168.png?09-18


I know, that's NAVGEM... but it's so similar to UKMO at 144h that it probably offers a reasonable guide as to where UKMO would go.




...so things don't look as bleak this evening when all the models are taken into account - but of course the model output has been so volatile lately... for all I know the LP could decide to dive to our SW instead (not an option I'm genuinely considering, by the way!).


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
GIBBY
09 September 2013 19:30:09

Good evening. Here is the report on the 12 midday output from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday September 9th 2013.


All models show Low pressure to the East of the British Isles giving cold NW or Northerly winds down across the UK. Many areas will be dry from now but Eastern Coastal Counties will be cloudy with spells of rain and a very cold day for September tomorrow. This eases away East along with the Low pressure on Wednesday as a ridge topples SE across the UK. Following hard on it's heels is a series of fronts which bring rain SE across all areas later in the day with Thursday seeing unsettled and cloudy conditions predominating with further rain at times gradually clearing from the North on Friday but slow to do so in the South. Over the weekend the winds freshen markedly in the North on Saturday and more generally on Sunday as Low pressure winds up to the North of the UK.


GFS then shows early next week as a very turbulent spell with gale or severe gale force winds over Scotland and NE coastal counties as a vicious Low pressure slides past Eastern Scotland. As well as high winds for all rain would occur too, heavy for a time before being chased away by cold NW winds and showers by midweek. The Low pressure responsible then moves away North to be followed by a very changeable and Autumnal remainder of the run with spells of strong winds and rain alternating with cool and showery weather with the South too seeing some appreciable rain at times.


The GFS Ensembles tonight show considerable spread from the end of the week with most members showing very changeable but not always wet conditions with widely fluctuating temperatures from day to day and member to member.


The Jet Stream is showing signs of getting into Autumn now with a much stronger flow at times than recently. It's position remains variable through this wee, mostly tumbling down over the UK from the NW. Later in the week and next week the flow strengthens on a strong West to East motion across Scotland or England.


UKMO tonight shows a deep Low winding itself up to the North of Scotland next Sunday with strengthening winds and rain sweeping East across most areas by the start of next week.


GEM tonight also shows the UK experiencing a swipe from a deep Low pressure travelling ESE close to NE Scotland late in the weekend clearing away East as we move into next week with a cool and showery NW flow blowing ahead of a temporary looking midweek ridge.


NAVGEM too shows the weekend Low but further North and affecting mostly just the north with wind and rain while the South though cloudy and breezy would probably see  just a short spell of rain as the cold front weakens as it moves SE in the wake of the blow.


ECM tonight harmlessly takes the Low on a track well North of the UK with some affects to the North in the shape of windy weather with a spells of rain. Southern areas would maintain largely benign conditions with just short bursts of showery rain as weakening fronts pass by in association with that Low to the North. Late in the run and High pressure arrives back over the UK from the West with fine, dry and Autumnal conditions prevalent for all.


In Summary the weather remains less than certain for the period later in the week and the weekend. In the short term troughs moving down from the NW will deliver a lot of cloud for all this week with some rain at times, chiefly Wednesday and Friday in the South. Thereafter we have a variety of options shown ranging from raging gales, heavy rain  and cool conditions to more mundane conditions when there will be mostly cloudy skies with just patchy outbreaks of rain, less wind and temperatures close to average. The next instalment tomorrow morning will probably give us some more variable output maintaining the poor run that the models have had of late of predicting things more than 5 days out in a unified manner.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Quantum
09 September 2013 19:40:23

The GFS has the -5C isotherm coming really remarkably close to the british isles.


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20130909/12/183/h850t850eu.png


 


I don't think I have seen anything like this before in september. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Hungry Tiger
09 September 2013 19:40:44


Good evening. Here is the report on the 12 midday output from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday September 9th 2013.


All models show Low pressure to the East of the British Isles giving cold NW or Northerly winds down across the UK. Many areas will be dry from now but Eastern Coastal Counties will be cloudy with spells of rain and a very cold day for September tomorrow. This eases away East along with the Low pressure on Wednesday as a ridge topples SE across the UK. Following hard on it's heels is a series of fronts which bring rain SE across all areas later in the day with Thursday seeing unsettled and cloudy conditions predominating with further rain at times gradually clearing from the North on Friday but slow to do so in the South. Over the weekend the winds freshen markedly in the North on Saturday and more generally on Sunday as Low pressure winds up to the North of the UK.


GFS then shows early next week as a very turbulent spell with gale or severe gale force winds over Scotland and NE coastal counties as a vicious Low pressure slides past Eastern Scotland. As well as high winds for all rain would occur too, heavy for a time before being chased away by cold NW winds and showers by midweek. The Low pressure responsible then moves away North to be followed by a very changeable and Autumnal remainder of the run with spells of strong winds and rain alternating with cool and showery weather with the South too seeing some appreciable rain at times.


The GFS Ensembles tonight show considerable spread from the end of the week with most members showing very changeable but not always wet conditions with widely fluctuating temperatures from day to day and member to member.


The Jet Stream is showing signs of getting into Autumn now with a much stronger flow at times than recently. It's position remains variable through this wee, mostly tumbling down over the UK from the NW. Later in the week and next week the flow strengthens on a strong West to East motion across Scotland or England.


UKMO tonight shows a deep Low winding itself up to the North of Scotland next Sunday with strengthening winds and rain sweeping East across most areas by the start of next week.


GEM tonight also shows the UK experiencing a swipe from a deep Low pressure travelling ESE close to NE Scotland late in the weekend clearing away East as we move into next week with a cool and showery NW flow blowing ahead of a temporary looking midweek ridge.


NAVGEM too shows the weekend Low but further North and affecting mostly just the north with wind and rain while the South though cloudy and breezy would probably see  just a short spell of rain as the cold front weakens as it moves SE in the wake of the blow.


ECM tonight harmlessly takes the Low on a track well North of the UK with some affects to the North in the shape of windy weather with a spells of rain. Southern areas would maintain largely benign conditions with just short bursts of showery rain as weakening fronts pass by in association with that Low to the North. Late in the run and High pressure arrives back over the UK from the West with fine, dry and Autumnal conditions prevalent for all.


In Summary the weather remains less than certain for the period later in the week and the weekend. In the short term troughs moving down from the NW will deliver a lot of cloud for all this week with some rain at times, chiefly Wednesday and Friday in the South. Thereafter we have a variety of options shown ranging from raging gales, heavy rain  and cool conditions to more mundane conditions when there will be mostly cloudy skies with just patchy outbreaks of rain, less wind and temperatures close to average. The next instalment tomorrow morning will probably give us some more variable output maintaining the poor run that the models have had of late of predicting things more than 5 days out in a unified manner.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Cheers Martin - Things still seem as confused as ever.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Andy Woodcock
09 September 2013 21:05:30

Zero consistency in the models, they really have been crap this summer.


Look at the GFS and ECM at +240, they couldnt be anymore different, useless!


Andy


Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
Gooner
09 September 2013 21:39:13


Zero consistency in the models, they really have been crap this summer.


Look at the GFS and ECM at +240, they couldnt be anymore different, useless!


Andy


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


That is well into FI though Andy, 120 timeframe is a little better


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Hungry Tiger
09 September 2013 22:51:26



Zero consistency in the models, they really have been crap this summer.


Look at the GFS and ECM at +240, they couldnt be anymore different, useless!


Andy


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


That is well into FI though Andy, 120 timeframe is a little better


Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


It's getting ever more difficult to pin down a forecast at the moment.


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Gooner
10 September 2013 06:41:33

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2401.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3841.png


High pressure throughout FI


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Charmhills
10 September 2013 06:52:09

[quote=doctormog;530957]I see the GFS 00z op run is having a laugh this morning http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1743.png[/quote]


Autumnal snow showers!


An unsettled and chilly look to the models this morning especially, for next week.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Jiries
10 September 2013 06:53:49


Let hope it does happen when time come near as we are dangerously getting rather too cool far too early in September as I never see low day maxes that early as it often happen in late September.  All my records always show 20-30C in first 10-15 days of September every year.  This September more like 1994 which I know what winter follow ahead.  Sea temps also dropping quickly with yellow 17-18C zone moving away rapidly from N Sea that early. 


At least for now here is looking settled with temps recovering later on and dry weekend here before the next LP swipe late on Monday giving a unwelcome early chill before HP build in later.

GIBBY
10 September 2013 07:17:24

Good morning. Here is the report on the outputs issued at midnight for GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday September 10th 2013.


All models show Low pressure to the East of the UK with a cold and cloudy Northerly flow bringing rain to the far East, only exiting the SE later tonight. Here it will be distinctly chilly. Elsewhere a slacker Northerly flow will bring dry conditions with broken cloud and sunny spells by day and clear spells tonight. However, all models also show a new set of fronts to the NW slipping SE over the UK tomorrow and Thursday bringing a spell of rain and cloudy conditions to all areas by the end of tomorrow clearing in the North. Then on Thursday the weak fronts by then over the South and West spread back East across Northern areas with rain and drizzle with drier but rather cloudy conditions in the South. By Friday a cold front crosses South with more rain in the South, having cleared the North early in the day. Saturday is then left dry and bright for many as a ridge crosses SE followed by freshening winds from the West with an increase of cloud and rain by the end of the day into the NW.


The Fax Charts show the evolution as stated above but with a little more reluctance to clear the rain out of Southern England on Friday as the trough develops a wave. A deepening depression is shown moving towards NW Scotland on Saturday with wind and rain expected soon after term of the 120 chart.


GFS then shows a steady build of pressure such as a lot of the second half of the run sees the UK covered in High pressure with attendant fine and pleasant conditions by day with cool and potentially foggy nights given such light winds.


The GFS Ensembles are beginning to firm up somewhat on another surge of cold weather between the 17th and 19th as the strong NW winds behind the early next week depression drag cold uppers down from the North. Things are then shown to become average if not slightly above this morning with amounts of rain thereafter becoming relatively small again in the South. there is though a lot of spread in the second half of the run between members.


The Jet Stream pattern show upper winds expected to blow SW over the UK ahead of tomorrows rainfall before slackening off and reverting to a West to East motion across Scotland later in the week and weekend before diving South over the UK in the wake of the deep Atlantic depression to the NE early next week.


UKMO shows a deep depression heading SE towards Norway early next week with a spell of windy and wet weather crossing all areas followed by cool and windy weather with sunshine and showers soon after. Showers would be most heavy in Northern and Western areas in exposure to the NW wind.


GEM today has the same depression affecting the UK in similar fashion early next week moving on to bring the whole complex slowly South into the UK maintaining very unsettled and cool weather with rain at times for all areas of Britain to see out the run.


NAVGEM also brings the Low pressure down the Eastern side of the UK next week with a cold and very showery North or NW flow being maintained for some time as the low pressure seems in no hurry to move away from the UK by midweek next week.


ECM is less dramatic in its handling of the Low though it is shown to be more effective to the British isles than last night's run with a cold front bringing rain and introducing cool and showery NW winds early next week before  winds back more towards the West with less cool conditions developing but still with a lot of cloud and occasional rain, especially in the NW as weak fronts cross East.


In Summary after this weeks changeable but relatively quiet weather conditions it looks this morning like a spell of cool and Autumnal showery NW winds look likely early next week with some heavy and squally showers about in a distinctly chilly NW wind following a band of rain later on Sunday and early Monday. Thereafter the jury is still out with a mixture of options ranging from the deeply unsettled GEM and NAVGEM both of which would maintain very cool and showery weather for all areas to a more modest approach shown by ECM and definitely GFS who bring High pressure back close to the UK or in the case of GFS over us with plenty of fine Autumn weather to be enjoyed. IMO until the exact track of the early week Low is decided I think we will continue to see wide fluctuations in the events shown from the models next week and that may take some days to pin down yet so the model rollercoaster continues.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
ARTzeman
10 September 2013 07:33:39

Thank You Martin.


 


Lots of  changes there.. It Is that time of year.






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
10 September 2013 08:01:56

Its my Birthday next Tuesday. I have never seen cold weather on my Birthday!

Stormchaser
10 September 2013 10:03:45

Mid-September looks to be particularly chilly this year, perhaps more so than most. The models still can't determine just how much energy will slide SE from the main complex to our NW, but they've really backed away from having the entire system barge it's way through into Scandinavia.


ECM and GFS see strong WAA, driven by the storm storm system, generating a very strong block to our NE. This acts to keep the troughing to our NW, with westerlies becoming more tropical-maritime in nature. GFS manages to settle things down from day 9 while ECM would take until day 11 to get the ridge across from the SW.


GEM builds blocking right across the high-latitudes from our NE to our NW. The model loves to do this whenever it gets the chance, so I tend to ignore such output unless it gains support from one of the 'big three'. That said, the support from NAVGEM does give some cause to wonder (GEM is usually totally isolated when it shows such extensive blocking all of a sudden).


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
nsrobins
10 September 2013 10:11:08


GEM builds blocking right across the high-latitudes from our NE to our NW. The model loves to do this whenever it gets the chance, so I tend to ignore such output unless it is early January and the air across Siberia is -45C

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 



Just corrected your post there, James
The radio weather presenter this morning was hinting at a fine and warm late September.
Bit of a long-shot that one given the current +240 onwards output.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
RavenCraven
10 September 2013 10:12:10

Looks like a more settled end to this week before a cool autumnal blast early next week. Nothing exceptional though and talk of snow showers is a tad premature unless its in reference to the mountain tops. Good support for the high wanting to push back later in  the month.

Stormchaser
10 September 2013 10:26:47



GEM builds blocking right across the high-latitudes from our NE to our NW. The model loves to do this whenever it gets the chance, so I tend to ignore such output unless it is early January and the air across Siberia is -45C

Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



Just corrected your post there, James
The radio weather presenter this morning was hinting at a fine and warm late September.
Bit of a long-shot that one given the current +240 onwards output.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Some truth in that.


The radio presenter probably just glanced at the GFS op run in FI. A glance at ECM could lead to similar conclusions. Just need good consistency before it can be taken seriously.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Polar Low
10 September 2013 10:32:27

Indeed Steve


GM also likes the idea someone has turned the turbo on over at grenny


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=216&mode=0&carte=1


 


Im just sat here on the beach in corfu, 31c and crystal clear skies,
For the last week I have been keeping a watch over the ECM only and has gradually showing more and more positive signals for heights to build north in the atlantic towards southern greenland,
This happened around 10 days ago for last weekend but eventually the wave was quite low amplitude, something more inline with summer, however this second attempt may result in more amplification this time - and could even see the first north/ north west flow of the year ushering in the 0c isotherm. Maybe just maybe in the most amplified solution even the -2 line-

Either way something autumnal on the cards as the polar heights seem to be building in september once again


S

Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 

Polar Low
10 September 2013 10:40:41

opp has good support at that time a few members even cooler


http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/two/ensembles/


 


 


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1743.png 

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