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Ally Pally Snowman
Monday, November 11, 2013 6:42:12 PM

Cracker of a Northerly!!!! Looking good for the Scots for some proper snow perhaps. Very cold for the time of year.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.html


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.html


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1922.html


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Matty H
Monday, November 11, 2013 6:49:15 PM

Cracker of a Northerly!!!! Looking good for the Scots for some proper snow perhaps. Very cold for the time of year.UserPostedImageUserPostedImage
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.html 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.html 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Not very cold for the time of year. You'd expect incursions like this at this time of the year or even earlier.
Zubzero
Monday, November 11, 2013 6:58:37 PM

The 192 ECM is intresting If you like cold but to far away to take much notice of atm. But some sort of northerly looking likely from the Weekend http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1921.gif

Ally Pally Snowman
Monday, November 11, 2013 7:03:09 PM

Cracker of a Northerly!!!! Looking good for the Scots for some proper snow perhaps. Very cold for the time of year.UserPostedImageUserPostedImage http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.html  http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.html 

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

Not very cold for the time of year. You'd expect incursions like this at this time of the year or even earlier.


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Uppers about 7c or 8c below average. So quite unusual.


 


Snow around!


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.html


 


 


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
some faraway beach
Monday, November 11, 2013 7:11:59 PM



navgm looks a bit less tricky with things in canda than gfs and the amount of A Wave that is required for the block not  to become to flat.      


Nice from navgm


 http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgeme_cartes.php?ech=180&code=0&mode=0&carte=1&archive=0


 


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


Nice to see some yellows head towards Greenland.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Yes. That low pressure to the south-west of Greenland is just the right sort of place to feed some warmth up there.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Quantum
Monday, November 11, 2013 7:24:53 PM

That WAA towards the baffin has caught my eye. We have gone from a rather pathetic high that has been trampled on by canadian lows to one that is starting to build itself up and move towards greenland. The 2nd more rigorous low on the ECM at 240, you could imagine diving SE and setting up a full blown block. Now obviously that is just one scenario, but things are looking far more interesting than just 24 hours ago with the position of that mid atlantic ridge being far more preferable. Strong southerly winds in the newfoundland area would be highly desirable 


 


EDIT: This happens in a full blown way on the GEM. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
White Meadows
Monday, November 11, 2013 7:54:35 PM
Must be worth watching this develop if the big boys have sat up.

Can anyone post that GEM chart Quantum has mentioned??
Gooner
Monday, November 11, 2013 7:56:55 PM

Must be worth watching this develop if the big boys have sat up. Can anyone post that GEM chart Quantum has mentioned??

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rgem2401.gif


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


GIBBY
Monday, November 11, 2013 8:19:29 PM

Good evening everyone. Here is tonight's account of the midday outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Monday November 11th 2013.


All models show a Westerly flow over the UK with a moist and mild West feed across the South ahead of a cold front crossing SE overnight. Further North colder and more showery conditions look likely. This extends to all areas tomorrow with a cold night following as a ridge moves across all areas from the West. This holds through daylight hours of Wednesday with another decent day for most before a cold front moves quickly SE on Wednesday night bringing a spell of rain and followed again by a strong rise of pressure and a chilly North wind over Thursday and into Friday when an overnight frost could develop in places. Friday and the weekend sees a lot of cloud despite high pressure close to the UK. By Sunday a weak cold front ambling South in slack winds brings outbreaks of rain and drizzle in likely dull and overcast conditions with hill fog widespread and temperatures somewhat lower than of late.


GFS then shows next week becoming steadily colder as a Northerly feed develops with some rain or showers falling as snow on Northern hills. Pressure then builds across Scotland while the South sees Low pressure to the South and a strengthening and raw East wind with rain and sleet at times. At the same time the North would see frost and fog night and morning, possibly lasting all day in places. Rather cold here too. The end of the run sees more changeable and still rather chilly conditions as Low pressure lies close to or over the UK with rain at times and snow on hills in the North.


UKMO tonight shows a large High pressure to the SW and West of the UK with a slack and cooling North flow over the UK. Following rain clearing the South most areas would become dry and bright and rather chilly with frost and fog early and late in the South.


GEM shows the weather becoming colder next week as a cool West, NW then a cold Northerly flow is succeeded by Low pressure coming close to the East Coast later in the week and High pressure building to the NW. All this would mean unsettled weather with rain or sleet at times and snow over all Northern higher elevations and possibly over the higher hills of the South too with time. With slack cyclonic winds, low uppers and any clear skies overnight, this could allow for freezing fog and frost patches at times.


NAVGEM closes it's run next Monday showing High pressure ridging North through the Atlantic and allowing the door to be opened to the North over the UK with the prospect of a cold and showery North flow later next week with some snowfall in the North and widespread night frosts developing.


ECM shows a complex and confused pattern synoptically next week with the most likely result for the UK being a spell of rather cold and unsettled weather with rain at times with snow on Northern hills and patchy night frosts. With High pressure over the Atlantic and lower pressure over Europe the favoured wind flow would naturally be Northerly but never overly strong. 


The GFS Ensembles show rather cold and changeable conditions for the two weeks when taken as an average. A predominance of NW winds look likely and they would be none too warm at times though not dramatically cold. High pressure looks like being maintained down to the West or SW of the UK. Rain at times look likely for all areas especially through the second half of the run.


The Jet Stream is set to continue ridging North over the Atlantic and eventually returning Southwards across the UK later in the weekend and next week though weakening in strength.


In Summary there is strong evidence of a change to rather colder weather with the winds turning to a more Northerly direction. With pressure falling beyond the weekend there is a good likelihood of rain at times too next week and with temperatures on the decline some snowfall on Northern hills at least seems likely with the increased risk of frost and fog too if skies clear overnight.


http://www.norton-ra...is(2859336).htm


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Hippydave
Monday, November 11, 2013 8:22:46 PM

Interesting watching the PV splitting and wandering off, more noticeably on GFS but also featured on the ECM.


Presumably quite a strong signal/driver for this if both models are picking it up at the edge of 'reliable' range.


Certainly looks to produce some cold weather for the North (or colder than some of the chilly stuff of late anyway) although suspect it'll just be chilly and damp or chilly and dry for the South. (or imby anyway)


Either way it'll be a bit weird having anything like seasonal weather* down here, have got all used to mild weather


*Lasting more than 24 hours anyway....


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Whether Idle
Monday, November 11, 2013 8:35:00 PM


Interesting watching the PV splitting and wandering off, more noticeably on GFS but also featured on the ECM.


Presumably quite a strong signal/driver for this if both models are picking it up at the edge of 'reliable' range.


Certainly looks to produce some cold weather for the North (or colder than some of the chilly stuff of late anyway) although suspect it'll just be chilly and damp or chilly and dry for the South. (or imby anyway)


Either way it'll be a bit weird having anything like seasonal weather* down here, have got all used to mild weather


*Lasting more than 24 hours anyway....


Originally Posted by: Hippydave 


Yes HD, there does seem to be a pivotal moment around the weekend where we could slip into a colder regime.  Interesting times for model watchers.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
squish
Monday, November 11, 2013 10:48:23 PM

Interesting 'pub run' from the GFS.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2761.png


D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
nsrobins
Monday, November 11, 2013 10:53:35 PM


Interesting 'pub run' from the GFS.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2761.png


Originally Posted by: squish 


Indeed. The Op manages to bring in a more notable Easterly than the 12z did, and with ECM and GEM climbing aboard (well, boarding passes are in hand maybe), perhaps the back-door cold spell hinted at a few days ago is looking increasingly likely.

The pick-up so far in this thread has been understandably casual, but given tweets from John H in the last few hours, and a succession now of ever colder looking ensemble sets, the launch button for the winter TWO rollercoaster ride is about to be pressed I reckon


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:05:59 PM

Bloody hell, that dartboard svalbard storm is starting to look more and more like a hurricane. Reminds me of 'day after tommorow'


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2013111118/navgemnh-2-120.png?11-23


 


Being serious now though, the 18z navgem is the most promising run, I can see, so far - despite only going to 144h we have already established an omega block. The trough is ready to drop and introduce persistant arctic air. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:11:21 PM



Interesting 'pub run' from the GFS.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2761.png


Originally Posted by: squish 


A much cooler period looks on the cards and welcome


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:14:21 PM

Oh also, the high res 12z NASA charts are just coming out. They only go to 120h though, but they are up there with the NAE. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
glenogle
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:17:46 PM


Indeed. The Op manages to bring in a more notable Easterly than the 12z did, and with ECM and GEM climbing aboard (well, boarding passes are in hand maybe), perhaps the back-door cold spell hinted at a few days ago is looking increasingly likely.

The pick-up so far in this thread has been understandably casual, but given tweets from John H in the last few hours, and a succession now of ever colder looking ensemble sets, the launch button for the winter TWO rollercoaster ride is about to be pressed I reckon


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


 


It's posts like that, that make me wish there was a like button on TWO (it is available on this forum/software afaik)


On topic - http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/18_159_mslp500.png?cb=314  This seems so much flatter than previous runs at this time, i wonder if it will develop as the models show?  Will the HP become lodged over us instead of moving on as shown.


UserPostedImage LLTNP 105m asl 
Hungry Tiger
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:25:09 PM





Interesting 'pub run' from the GFS.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2761.png


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


A much cooler period looks on the cards and welcome


Originally Posted by: squish 


Amazing chart that is. That will cool things down a bit - but one proviso. Western Russia has had a record mild autumn so that area is by no means cold at the moment.


It would take a high in that position a good couple of weeks before really cold air got advected into it even before it arrived here.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Quantum
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:28:42 PM






Interesting 'pub run' from the GFS.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2761.png


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


A much cooler period looks on the cards and welcome


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Amazing chart that is. That will cool things down a bit - but one proviso. Western Russia has had a record mild autumn so that area is by no means cold at the moment.


It would take a high in that position a good couple of weeks before really cold air got advected into it even before it arrived here.


 


Originally Posted by: squish 


 


Although if the greenland high sets up before hand, an arctic trough could cool things down extremely quickly over russia. I think thats basically what happened in 2010. Indeed, the pattern in that part of the arctic looks somewhat similar. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
SEMerc
Monday, November 11, 2013 11:35:33 PM



Interesting 'pub run' from the GFS.


 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn2761.png


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Indeed. The Op manages to bring in a more notable Easterly than the 12z did, and with ECM and GEM climbing aboard (well, boarding passes are in hand maybe), perhaps the back-door cold spell hinted at a few days ago is looking increasingly likely.

The pick-up so far in this thread has been understandably casual, but given tweets from John H in the last few hours, and a succession now of ever colder looking ensemble sets, the launch button for the winter TWO rollercoaster ride is about to be pressed I reckon


Originally Posted by: squish 


I won't be convinced until I see Younger Dryas posting again. That's the best barometer in here.


And if Steve Murr pops up, well it's shovels at the ready.

Scandy 1050 MB
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 7:30:31 AM

Some sort of cold spell now looks increasingly likely but which will it be?  ECM, GEM and GFS all have different views, I like ECM though:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=192&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=0&archive=0


Should give some wintry showers even to low levels in Scotland with that as the air is northerly sourced.


GFS at the same time frame has a slightly different idea:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=216&mode=0


Which eventually leads to the classic GFS winter run (if I had a pound for every one of these I have seen which never happen!):


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=372&mode=0


GEM at the same time frame:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=216&mode=0&carte=0


All of them have cooler weather on the way (GEM less so) just differing levels, ECM pick of the bunch probably but with such different runs about from run to run anything is possible currently. As ever more runs needed before this one is nailed, could possibly put a dent in the CET though if any of those runs are correct.


 


 

some faraway beach
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:08:09 AM

Looking at the differences between GFS and ECM at 192 hours, I think I prefer ECM:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=192&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


I think the position of those lows to the SW of Greenland are often crucial in these situations to determine whether the UK is in the right position for cold. On that chart it's not quite there to my eye, but they're still itching to point towards central Greenland and send milder air in that direction to help build that crucial Greenland high. 


GFS at the same time has low pressure nervously arsing around over the southern tip of Greenland, and that makes getting a cold spell for the UK more problematic in my experience.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0&carte=1


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
haghir22
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 8:50:48 AM


Looking at the differences between GFS and ECM at 192 hours, I think I prefer ECM:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=192&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


I think the position of those lows to the SW of Greenland are often crucial in these situations to determine whether the UK is in the right position for cold. On that chart it's not quite there to my eye, but they're still itching to point towards central Greenland and send milder air in that direction to help build that crucial Greenland high. 


GFS at the same time has low pressure nervously arsing around over the southern tip of Greenland, and that makes getting a cold spell for the UK more problematic in my experience.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0&carte=1


Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 


Nice summary that....


YNWA
ARTzeman
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:20:26 AM

Having just read Martin's Model Analysis form his website,looks very much colder from herein... 






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
GIBBY
Tuesday, November 12, 2013 10:23:40 AM

Good morning. Sorry this is very late this morning. Not sure what happened to the usual copy and paste feature from my website this morning and I apologise for any format problems viewing this today. Anyway, here is the latest account of the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Tuesday November 12th 2013.


All models show a chilly NW blow blowing down over the UK behind a weak cold front currently clearing the SE. A bright day with long sunny spells and the odd shower will be likely today. Tonight and tomorrow sees a ridge crossing over from the West with a cold and frosty night likely in the South tonight. Winds ad milder air encroaches across the North tonight and tomorrow and a cold front brings a spell of rain SE across the UK Wednesday night with strong winds and rain for a time. A cold NNW flow follows later Thursday and Friday with another ridge settling things down again on Friday and Saturday, again with a frost likely overnight in the South. Through the weekend most models show slack conditions over the UK with a weak front edging South over Britain bringing dull and misty weather with light winds in temperatures close to or a little below average.


GFS then shows slack conditions continuing until midweek with a mix of cloudy spells and brighter interludes as weak fronts continue to push South. By midweek a more definitive pull of Northerly winds behind a trough lowers temperatures considerably and it will become cold for all especially across the South with rain or sleet at times while the North becomes cold, clear and frosty as High pressure builds. This situation remains for several days with frost and fog widespread over the North with cloudy skies across the South preventing much frost but maintaining a risk of a little rain at times in a raw wind from the East. Late in the run a deep Low to the NE pulls a spell of cold NW winds across the UK with wintry showers in the North and West.


UKMO today ends in run with a classic set up for a Northerly following it's term. High pressure is strong across the Atlantic and with Low pressure to the NW poised to slide SE across Britain and to the SE. Cloud and rain would be slow to clear the South from an old front while the North sees the approach of another along with freshening winds through next Monday. Temperatures at this stage would be close to average.


GEM does show a brief and chilly NW flow early next week which quickly gets squeezed out by Low pressure slipping South to the SW and allowing a mid latitude High to ridge across the UK from the Atlantic which means rather cold and settled weather more likely with frost and fog the likely problems night and morning for a time. Any rain would be most likely in the far NE before milder air topples over the High and over Northern areas before the end of next week.


NAVGEM is a little different in that it pulls Low pressure down to the West of the British Isles keeping cold air away over the Atlantic but with the Low's close proximity to the UK there would be rain at times in temperatures closer to but probably still a little below average.


ECM opens the floodgates to the North early next week with falling pressure developing into Low pressure positioned across the SE and France later with a cold and raw NE flow setting up across the South with rain at times along with the possibility of a little sleet or wet snow on the highest ground. By Day 10 as high pressure builds close to the NW these regions would become drier but with sharp night frosts developing.


The GFS Ensemble mean charts do suggest strong support for a colder northerly of sorts early next week with some wintry showers possible in the North. Then for a lengthy mid term period it looks like High pressure is supported to be over or close to SE Britain with cold, frosty and foggy weather more likely before the chance of more unsettled and rather cold weather returns late in the run.


The Jet Stream profile shows a strong ridging North of the flow over the Central Atlantic and back down over the UK next week. It then looks that there is a chance of a split flow, one traveling SE well to the SW of Britain and another stronger arm also moving SE over Europe.


In Summary following the benign conditions of the rest of this week it does look like our first taste of seasonal cold weather is on the way. What shape and form this will take differs between the output with my best stab at deducing it being that all areas look like seeing a Northerly flow with the chance of rain and showers turning wintry in places as we move through next week. It then looks like the chance of High pressure setting up a location close to the UK is favoured and with cold uppers and cold surface temperatures too freezing fog and frost could become big enough issues to become disruptive to travel should it evolve as I think it may. Longer term the Jet profile being such would suggest a return to rather cold and unsettled weather late in the period with further rain at times and snow over the hills. I would add, though the trend for cold weather next week is strong today the pattern is very fluid and subject to change still over the next few days.


 


Transcript taken from:-http://www.norton-ra...is(2859336).htm


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
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