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Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 5:33:03 PM

and Matty gets it all


quote=ITSY;550182]


GFS Control, along with a number of other Pertubations on the 12Z suite offer the first snow event of the season for large parts of england next Wednesday morning. 2-5cms maybe, for the higher ground at least. (which is what some snow accumulation charts on the previous page allude to). UKMO at the same time frame offer a similar possibility on the back edge. All goes to show how things can change in a few days, given that only a week ago it was zonal dross and 2 days ago it was snowtastic. All to play for this winter guys. 

FYI, even MBY (low altitute) has a 30% snow risk for the above time period. Probably won't happen, but the point is not all is lost!

http://www.meteociel.fr/cartes_obs/gens_display.php?ext=1&x=307&y=103 


Matty H
Friday, November 15, 2013 5:35:01 PM
Winter rule of thumb, PL. I always get buckets of snow here. No idea why, but if its going to snow anywhere it'll be here. Been ridiculously lucky the last 3 winters or so. We've had around 4 or 5 substantial falls 😂
Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 5:38:10 PM

I know I noted and me nowt  cant make it up


 


Winter rule of thumb, PL. I always get buckets of snow here. No idea why, but if its going to snow anywhere it'll be here. Been ridiculously lucky the last 3 winters or so. We've had around 4 or 5 substantial falls LOL

Originally Posted by: Matty H 

Medlock Vale Weather
Friday, November 15, 2013 5:42:31 PM

I think this was just one GFS run and shouldn't be taken as gospel as we know it has a cold bias, ECM could be much different, hopefully.


Also I reckon our expectations have rocketed over the past few years to the point where people are expecting more and more extreme cold evolutions, nothing wrong in that after so many years of mild Winters. 


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 5:44:56 PM

Nice, very nice


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=192&mode=0&carte=1


Repeat again and very nice the pole

Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:01:35 PM
Quantum
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:27:38 PM

There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:37:34 PM

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm961.gif


ECM certainly a downgrade IMO , there wasn't that much to downgrade from being fair


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1201.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1441.gif


Just standard November weather


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:37:39 PM

Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Gooner
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:38:51 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-168.GIF?15-0


will we get something from the North ??


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:39:27 PM


Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


The ECM12z yesterday was amazing, prospect of a long cold spell. Now everything is collapsing. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gooner
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:44:09 PM



Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


The ECM12z yesterday was amazing, prospect of a long cold spell. Now everything is collapsing. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-192.GIF?15-0


Not quite


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:45:11 PM




Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


The ECM12z yesterday was amazing, prospect of a long cold spell. Now everything is collapsing. 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-192.GIF?15-0


Not quite


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Yeh but its at 192! Yesterday the awesome was at 144. I see the models are pulling the classic keep it in FI and then gradually make it dissapear manuover. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:51:56 PM

I love it Q the evolution under the block she goes lovely at the pole


 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=1&map=1&archive=0






Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


The ECM12z yesterday was amazing, prospect of a long cold spell. Now everything is collapsing. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-192.GIF?15-0


Not quite


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Yeh but its at 192! Yesterday the awesome was at 144. I see the models are pulling the classic keep it in FI and then gradually make it dissapear manuover. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

doctormog
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:54:50 PM




Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


The ECM12z yesterday was amazing, prospect of a long cold spell. Now everything is collapsing. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-192.GIF?15-0


Not quite


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


Yeh but its at 192! Yesterday the awesome was at 144. I see the models are pulling the classic keep it in FI and then gradually make it dissapear manuover. 

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



With c. 516dam thickness here (500-1000hPa) at 120hr it looks potentially wintry. The details beyond a couple of days of cold, and potentially wintry in places, conditions.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1201.gif 

I suspect things may remain cooler than average after midweek next week too but the details are far from certain.something like the end of 12z ECM would be a nice option but there is little consistency at that range (or indeed before then!)
Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:56:15 PM

Becoming colder again at t216


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=216&mode=0&map=1&archive=0


 


some very frosty nights in the mix before then


 


 

Gooner
Friday, November 15, 2013 6:59:17 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-240.GIF?15-0


And back to something eventually from the NW


Quite a turnaround from this mornings 240 which gave us an Easterly flow


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Polar Low
Friday, November 15, 2013 7:02:54 PM

 would have been nice to look at the postage stamps later but I dont think we can get to them now for some reason.


 






Are you sure Q im not


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=168&mode=1&map=1&archive=0


 



There really has been a substantial downgrade today, yesterday there were some stunners. Today the block is subsiding. 


Originally Posted by: doctormog 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


The ECM12z yesterday was amazing, prospect of a long cold spell. Now everything is collapsing. 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013111512/ECH1-192.GIF?15-0


Not quite


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Yeh but its at 192! Yesterday the awesome was at 144. I see the models are pulling the classic keep it in FI and then gradually make it dissapear manuover. 


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 



With c. 516dam thickness here (500-1000hPa) at 120hr it looks potentially wintry. The details beyond a couple of days of cold, and potentially wintry in places, conditions.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1201.gif

I suspect things may remain cooler than average after midweek next week too but the details are far from certain.something like the end of 12z ECM would be a nice option but there is little consistency at that range (or indeed before then!)

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

Whether Idle
Friday, November 15, 2013 7:03:21 PM


 


Yeh but its at 192! Yesterday the awesome was at 144. I see the models are pulling the classic keep it in FI and then gradually make it dissapear manuover. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


FI (post 144 ) is Fantasy Island because anything around or beyond is simply that - fantasy.  In mild to cold transitions in winter FI seems often much closer than 144, and with an easterly onset its often at 72 hours.


Check my tag-line for further advice.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
GIBBY
Friday, November 15, 2013 8:13:25 PM

It's very quiet in here tonight. Anybody would think there has been a downgrade in the upcoming cold spell. I for one am not surprised we have been here many times before and will be in the future. 


Anyway, Good evening everyone. Here is tonight's account of the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Friday November 15th 2013.


All models show a slack flow over the UK with a ridge of High pressure lying across Central regions. To the SE of it some clear skies allow frost and fog to form tonight while the North, on the other side of the ridge see cloudier, milder Westerly winds but mostly dry weather. With time over the weekend the cloudier weather in the NW wins out covering all areas by Sunday. At that time a trough sinking South over the UK could bring some rain to many areas as it moves North to South through the day. On Monday a more active feature sinks South too with a cold NW flow with scattered wintry showers following mostly over Northern and Western areas on Tuesday.


GFS then keeps things rather cold and showery for a time through the middle of next week with some snowfall over the hills before High pressure develops over the UK with frost and freezing fog likely to become a major problem later in the week as pressure builds across from the Atlantic. Later in the run details are irrelevant but the trend shows Low pressure gradually taking control from the SW with rain at times in rather cold conditions but snow only likely on high ground in more Northern Britain. It looks like it will stay quite chilly feeling though.


UKMO shows High pressure building quickly over the UK later next week following Low pressure moving away South from Southern Britain midweek. Rain and wintry showers will affect Southern areas for a time midweek with snow on the higher hills briefly. Temperatures would be cold everywhere and particularly in the High pressure area later in the week frost and freezing fog will become a big issue, difficult to shift through the days.


GEM shows a cold NW, North then NE flow next week and while it will never be cold enough for snow generally it will feel cold enough in a raw wind with sunshine and wintry showers, especially in the north at first and the South and East later. Pressure becomes very high to the NW and with a serious injection of cold air approaching Eastern areas at the end of the run possibly grazing the SE for a time.


NAVGEM maintains High pressure to the North and then West as we move through next week with the innitial North flow with wintry showers quickly turning North-easterly across the South with rain or sleet at times briefly. Late in the run winds back Northerly again as the cold theme continues with some wintry showers in the North and East a week from now.


ECM tonight shows a chilly NW flow with showers, wintry on hills in the North and West. Soon after midweek High pressure builds in killing the showers and cold wind and a frosty and potentially foggy spell develops as the High sits over the South of the UK. As it moves slowly East late in the run a small Low sinks SE down to the SW with dull and damp weather likely for a time while others stay misty or foggy and cold. The NW would see milder SW winds encroaching by Day 10 as the Jet Stream rides North with Greenland Low pressure developing.  


The GFS Ensembles tonight show a short cold snap before the general average of members suggest a milder trend from the mid and end sections of the run. Average level temperatures are then popularly shown with rain at times as the Atlantic gradually regains momentum.


The Jet Stream tonight blows across the North for the next day or so before buckling South as the weather turns colder early next week. Longer term tonight the Northern arm of the Jet appears to remain strnger than on recent outputs and carries East across the Atlantic and across the UK in a week or so time.


In Summary tonight there has been a cross the board downgrade today if it's snow you are after, not that away from higher ground in the North it ever looked like a major problem to be brutally honest. However, High pressure over the UK is likely to promote colder temperatures at the surface with sharp frosts and freezing fog much more likely to feature next week now rather than sleet and snow. It's seems the behaviour and the track of the Jet flow has changed in it's more up to date projections with a UK based Jet flow shown after next week instead of being at a point South of the UK being shown yesterday. The net result looks like a period of UK high pressure giving fog and frost but with little high level blocking in evidence tonight from GFS and ECM it looks like a steady road towards the Atlantic train before too long beyond next week.


Transcript taken from:-http://www.norton-ra...is(2859336).htm


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
moomin75
Friday, November 15, 2013 8:14:51 PM


Good evening everyone. Here is tonight's account of the 12 noon outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Friday November 15th 2013.


All models show a slack flow over the UK with a ridge of High pressure lying across Central regions. To the SE of it some clear skies allow frost and fog to form tonight while the North, on the other side of the ridge see cloudier, milder Westerly winds but mostly dry weather. With time over the weekend the cloudier weather in the NW wins out covering all areas by Sunday. At that time a trough sinking South over the UK could bring some rain to many areas as it moves North to South through the day. On Monday a more active feature sinks South too with a cold NW flow with scattered wintry showers following mostly over Northern and Western areas on Tuesday.


GFS then keeps things rather cold and showery for a time through the middle of next week with some snowfall over the hills before High pressure develops over the UK with frost and freezing fog likely to become a major problem later in the week as pressure builds across from the Atlantic. Later in the run details are irrelevant but the trend shows Low pressure gradually taking control from the SW with rain at times in rather cold conditions but snow only likely on high ground in more Northern Britain. It looks like it will stay quite chilly feeling though.


UKMO shows High pressure building quickly over the UK later next week following Low pressure moving away South from Southern Britain midweek. Rain and wintry showers will affect Southern areas for a time midweek with snow on the higher hills briefly. Temperatures would be cold everywhere and particularly in the High pressure area later in the week frost and freezing fog will become a big issue, difficult to shift through the days.


GEM shows a cold NW, North then NE flow next week and while it will never be cold enough for snow generally it will feel cold enough in a raw wind with sunshine and wintry showers, especially in the north at first and the South and East later. Pressure becomes very high to the NW and with a serious injection of cold air approaching Eastern areas at the end of the run possibly grazing the SE for a time.


NAVGEM maintains High pressure to the North and then West as we move through next week with the innitial North flow with wintry showers quickly turning North-easterly across the South with rain or sleet at times briefly. Late in the run winds back Northerly again as the cold theme continues with some wintry showers in the North and East a week from now.


ECM tonight shows a chilly NW flow with showers, wintry on hills in the North and West. Soon after midweek High pressure builds in killing the showers and cold wind and a frosty and potentially foggy spell develops as the High sits over the South of the UK. As it moves slowly East late in the run a small Low sinks SE down to the SW with dull and damp weather likely for a time while others stay misty or foggy and cold. The NW would see milder SW winds encroaching by Day 10 as the Jet Stream rides North with Greenland Low pressure developing.  


The GFS Ensembles tonight show a short cold snap before the general average of members suggest a milder trend from the mid and end sections of the run. Average level temperatures are then popularly shown with rain at times as the Atlantic gradually regains momentum.


The Jet Stream tonight blows across the North for the next day or so before buckling South as the weather turns colder early next week. Longer term tonight the Northern arm of the Jet appears to remain strnger than on recent outputs and carries East across the Atlantic and across the UK in a week or so time.


In Summary tonight there has been a cross the board downgrade today if it's snow you are after, not that away from higher ground in the North it ever looked like a major problem to be brutally honest. However, High pressure over the UK is likely to promote colder temperatures at the surface with sharp frosts and freezing fog much more likely to feature next week now rather than sleet and snow. It's seems the behaviour and the track of the Jet flow has changed in it's more up to date projections with a UK based Jet flow shown after next week instead of being at a point South of the UK being shown yesterday. The net result looks like a period of UK high pressure giving fog and frost but with little high level blocking in evidence tonight from GFS and ECM it looks like a steady road towards the Atlantic train before too long.


Transcript taken from:-http://www.norton-ra...is(2859336).htm


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 

Thanks Martin...


So a cross-model downgrade tonight....time for the razor blades?


Oh no, wait, it's November and we're in Autumn....No winter is not over yet.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Ally Pally Snowman
Friday, November 15, 2013 8:32:59 PM

Very interesting ECM ensemble Mean looks very blocked with a massive Scandi High. Completely different to the Op.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.html


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gooner
Friday, November 15, 2013 8:47:25 PM


Very interesting ECM ensemble Mean looks very blocked with a massive Scandi High. Completely different to the Op.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.html


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Very different


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Russwirral
Friday, November 15, 2013 8:53:43 PM



Very interesting ECM ensemble Mean looks very blocked with a massive Scandi High. Completely different to the Op.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.html


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Very different


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


Like I said the other day - the Mean looks alot like the Mean pressure pattern for Winter last year.  HP to the North East and South west.  LP moving NW to SE towards Italy etc.  Would be interesting if the GFS will arrive at that - and the whole too-ing and fro-ing we're seeing that at the moment is actually just all part of the foreplay.


Though it looks like we are in fact headin for a lump of HP sitting very close if not over the UK whilst Europe cools down.  Typical November weather.  Frost and Fog aplenty.


 


pdiddy
Friday, November 15, 2013 9:04:31 PM

there will be more twists and turns yet... I believe the models are struggling to navigate the uncertain position:


- how much amplification;


- whether high pressure stays to the North; and


- the lows' progression across the Atlantic


Still all to play for in the longer term, even if next week looks more transient.

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