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doctormog
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:17:28 PM


There is room for improvement but the outlook isnot great. Hopefully the next trend will be for the block to set up at a higher latitude

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


The outlook is great, if you live in GreeceUserPostedImage
ECM setting up nicely for a Athens Special.
Andy

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1202.gif  although after that it looks like turning chillier in Greece while much of England and Wales are stuck under anticyclonic conditions.
The Beast from the East
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:20:38 PM

GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:30:39 PM


GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Polar Low
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:34:34 PM

colder with time the blue army marches east


http://wxmaps.org/pix/temp4.html


uk and Weestern Europe below average for sometime?

Hippydave
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:39:12 PM


Bit strangely pessimistic/depressive on here atm.


I know I'm a fairly optimistic coldie, which probably colours my viewpoint, but the outlook is the same as it's been for the last week or so - a short sharp cold snap with a variety of options on for after that. Now if a nailed on prolonged cold and unsettled spell had just totally vanished I could understand the frustrations.....


Given the trends on ECM and GFS I'd say there's a realistic but unlikely chance of a cold easterly/continental influence post the initial Northerly and subsequent HP collapse. A lot better outlook than it could be, although the continental influence would doubtless not suit the North


On most of the output I've looked at in the long term there are signs of Northern blocking, whether it affects us in terms of bringing cold is debateable even if it does develop of course.


Oh and WI your refereeing skills are terrible USA wasn't even playing the right game for most of the past week


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
doctormog
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:45:00 PM


GEM and NAVGEM are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0 
At least frost free.

BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...UserPostedImage
To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far. USA 2 Europe 0.

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 



Which GFS op run? Up until yesterday the GFS was all over the place. The ECM and UKMO on the other hand have been pretty consistent with only a gradual change.

For the time point 12z on Friday 6th of December

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/11/28/basis12/euro/pslv/13120612_2812.gif 

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/11/29/basis12/euro/pslv/13120612_2912.gif 

http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/11/30/basis12/euro/pslv/13120612_3012.gif 

To say that the GFS op has consistently called this correctly is impossible as it has been far from consistent on a day to day basis. A poor effort and I'm sure the stats will continue to show that. (It is currently 4th at day 5 behind the ECM, UKMO and GEM. In that order)
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 7:58:46 PM

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/cmae_cartes.php?&ech=144&mode=0&carte=0


The Chinese model still going for a northerly of sorts on Saturday.  How well does this one verify?


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 8:05:23 PM
http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/2013/11/30/basis12/euro/pslv/13120612_3012.gif  To say that the GFS op has consistently called this correctly is impossible as it has been far from consistent on a day to day basis. A poor effort and I'm sure the stats will continue to show that. (It is currently 4th at day 5 behind the ECM, UKMO and GEM. In that order)


Hi Doc


 


The runs that I have seen have shown the gradual eastward correction of the northerly.  GFS never seemed too keen on the northerly blast (ie as depicted on ECM 0z) when Ive looked; ECM was but has gone off the idea.  Thats my perception influenced by the charts Ive studied. 


I think the ECM is on the most accurate model when averaged over time, but on key cold focussed winter type will it/ wont it moments at 144 hours, my perception, based on a decade or more of winter model watching, is that its no more or no less successful in these moments than the GFS.


 


WI


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
GIBBY
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:00:31 PM

Good evening. Here is the slightly late report from me on how I see the 12 noon outputs from the big 5 models for this evening Sunday December 1st 2013.


All models show a quiet first half of the week as High pressure remains in control for the time being with slack and light winds and largely close to average temperatures. Through the middle of the week weak troughs move South over the UK with the later one bringing a substantial drop in temperature, especially over Northern and Eastern areas where snow showers will become a feature for a time with accumulations here and there. In the South and West though colder the weather will be fine and dry with sunny spells with frost developing overnight.


GFS then shows a change to milder conditions soon after the beginning of next week with milder SW winds bringing cloudy and mild conditions with rain at times over the remainder of the run with strong winds at times and the heaviest rain towards the North and West.


UKMO closes it's run with fine weather over all areas as High pressure is positioned over Southern Britain. The weather will be cold at the surface with some very sharp frost and fog patches, slow to clear in places. The far NW will become more cloudy and less cold later.


GEM shows High pressure slipping away towards Southern Europe through the following week with fresh SW winds developing for all with some rain at times especially in the North and West. It would become milder everywhere.


NAVGEM keeps cold and High pressure based weather early next week as High pressure slowly drifts East across the UK. Frost and fog at night would likely be problemmatical before a Southerly breeze picks up later.


ECM tonight shows High pressure sliding over towards Germany towards the middle of next week with milder weather across the North and west though with largely overcast skies. In the South and East a continental feed of air may assist in keeping thing colder, especially overnight if cloud breaks occur when frost and fog is possible. It may be though that it stays rather cloudy and grey.


The GFS Ensembles show a colder then milder spell before things return to fairly close to average. There are some colder options shown there, some with a Scandinavian High which could prove interesting in time if it evolves. Rainfall would be limited in the South until later in the run while the NW in particular sees more rainfall than elsewhere.


The Jet Stream shows the flow turning Se across the UK and North Sea later next week before another change occurs and for the first time tonight this season the flow is shown to blow well South of the UK in Week 2 as pressure possibly builds to the NE.


In Summary tonight the weather is set to turn colder later this week, albeit briefly. Some sleet or snow showers should be likely in the North and East with fewer showers in the West closest to High pressure moving in from the West. Thereafter the most popular solution looks to be for High pressure to be sliding away South or SE with milder SW winds developing but there is a lot of mileage over the coming days of this week for this pattern to change as it looks no means certain that this is how things will evolve. 


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Stormchaser
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:02:17 PM

Must admit I never expected ECM to scoop all of the Scandi energy out northward!


If that or the GFS 12z op verified, we'd be left hoping that the monstrous ridges put enough pressure on the PV to cause it to disintigrate, allowing those ridges to build to higher latitudes.




With the output so volatile, responding dramatically to changes in the Atlantic energy profile, there's little point in speculating in any detail about events... even the one in 5 days time has changed considerably over the past 24 hours... the typical downgrade strikes again! 


My busy life will probably save me from being too bothered by the model swings until mid-December. From then until early January... well, I'll have revision, but you know how it gets  etc 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Gooner
Sunday, December 1, 2013 9:30:33 PM



GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


First to 14 , long way to go


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Chiltern Blizzard
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:13:29 PM



GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


A bit premature surely... things can swing back and will evolve further.  12 hours ago it would have been 1-1... who's to say what we'll have tomorrow.  Only when things are truly nailed on later this week will we be able to judge.


Andrew


 


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Karl Guille
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:16:57 PM
GFS 18z has the colder uppers about 140 miles further west and, more interestingly, an extra vigorous looking little low to the west of Scandinavia at about T132!

St. Sampson
Guernsey
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:21:22 PM
18z GFS is Good Eye Candy.

We have to understand that the Naughty 06z and 18z runs that then are Replaced by Sensible 12z and 00z Runs and with the UKMO Support is respective.

ECMWF 12z that I seen Today and Yesterday is great Eye Candy as well.

This situation is not very simple.

It is Dependant on those Forecasters up there and some Good Computer Models and maybe some Bloggers on Space or Earth Weather Science fans and Professionals they will be able to
Put some R E A L I S T I C Model Analysis back on here, so if the Researchers at E S A and N A S A et all S O H O and the Watchers could provide us some confidence about GFS and UKMO then
We are capable people.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
jan1987blizzard
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:21:55 PM

18z GFS is an absolute shocker, positively tilted troughing meaning WAA going NE rather than NW, no undercutting on this run - Gutted.

Whether Idle
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:24:20 PM




GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


 


A bit premature surely... things can swing back and will evolve further.  12 hours ago it would have been 1-1... who's to say what we'll have tomorrow.  Only when things are truly nailed on later this week will we be able to judge.


Andrew


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Yeah, it was a bit early; and it would be just like the models to flip flop again, but I felt it was time to make my calls on this one.


Its day one of the 90 days of (meteorological) winter.  What is always amusing to me, is that here we are admitting we dont know what the weather will be like in 5 days, and I can swap threads and read umpteen LRFs, telling me the sequence of weather in 2-3 months.  Incredible!  Long may TWO remain a bastion of all things weather related.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Chiltern Blizzard
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:35:43 PM





GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Originally Posted by: Chiltern Blizzard 


 


A bit premature surely... things can swing back and will evolve further.  12 hours ago it would have been 1-1... who's to say what we'll have tomorrow.  Only when things are truly nailed on later this week will we be able to judge.


Andrew


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Yeah, it was a bit early; and it would be just like the models to flip flop again, but I felt it was time to make my calls on this one.


Its day one of the 90 days of (meteorological) winter.  What is always amusing to me, is that here we are admitting we dont know what the weather will be like in 5 days, and I can swap threads and read umpteen LRFs, telling me the sequence of weather in 2-3 months.  Incredible!  Long may TWO remain a bastion of all things weather related.


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


I agree, it amuses me too.... The cfs monthly anomoly charts are a good example. Last week Gooner posted a Jan chart with sub  -4 monthly anomoly... When i read it the day after ot was posted the anomoly was +ve - doesn't stop me  reading the thread though and having my own long range thoughts


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
jan1987blizzard
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:44:40 PM

Ironically my reverse psychology has worked - undercut coming up, too late in the run to get excited though.

White Meadows
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:47:20 PM
Gfs 18z cold then mild then potentially very cold into FI
some faraway beach
Sunday, December 1, 2013 10:47:50 PM

This is the bit that surprises me.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=84&mode=0&carte=1


At 84 hrs the GFS 18z shows a mid-Atlantic high pointing towards Greenland, supported by a low west of the Azores. There's also a low off the eastern coast of Canada directing milder air towards Greenland. I'm sure in the past that has been a recipe for the high to regress north to Greenland and for the low off Canada to head south-eastwards and undercut. The dream scenario for us in winter.


Yet the low off Canada simply rides over the mid-Atlantic high for some reason and sends it back down over us and then into the Continent, leaving us in a mild, south-westerly flow.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=144&mode=0&carte=1


Probably just wishful thinking, but I'm prepared to ignore this run.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Gooner
Sunday, December 1, 2013 11:07:16 PM

GFS now gives just one day that shows real cold


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Steve Murr
Sunday, December 1, 2013 11:11:09 PM



GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


quite possibly the most misinformed post in the history of TWO-.


The Northerly has been on the map for 5 days- X20 runs of the GFS- not one has been the same.


From this


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/archives/gfs-2013112812-0-186.png?12


to this the morning after


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/archives/gfs-2013112906-0-174.png?6


then back to this overnight


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/archives/gfs-2013113000-0-150.png?0


& so on....


 


real smooth GFS....


 

jan1987blizzard
Sunday, December 1, 2013 11:11:35 PM


GFS now gives just one day that shows real cold


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Yes it is a crap run for next weekend.

Gandalf The White
Sunday, December 1, 2013 11:16:45 PM


GFS now gives just one day that shows real cold


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png


 


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Whereas the ECM ensemble for London shows Saturday and Sunday as virtually ice days.  Th elonger term has trended slightly colder again with the mean maxima around 5C and minima around 3C from Day 11


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html 


There's the usual scatter but the majority of runs go down the cool to cold route.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Hendon Snowman
Sunday, December 1, 2013 11:17:05 PM




GEM and NAVGEM  are pretty awful so for once we cant look at the lesser models for comfort!


 


Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/geme_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=0&carte=0


At least frost free. 


 


BTW, I see the ECM corrected a long way east...


To my eyes, the GFS Op has triumphed at the second showdown of the winter thus far.  USA 2  Europe 0.


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


 


quite possibly the most misinformed post in the history of TWO-.


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


 


As I think Steve has pointed out we seem to be in a different regime climatologically wise and for me it seems that the synoptics in wintertime have changed from the past regime.  The models have been struggling for days to work the upstream pattern and hasnt it been the case over recent years for that to hopefully mean a beauty (cold and snowy) could be on the horizon.


 


Heres hoping anyways   


 


 

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