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Stormchaser
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:29:02 AM

A December of persistent high pressure and inversions... yikes.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013120400/ECH1-144.GIF?04-12


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cma/runs/2013120400/cmanh-0-144.png?00


This is ECM followed by CMA, purely to illustrate how a difference in the energy distribution makes all the difference... especially in the Atlantic, where CMA has the energy bundled up further west in an intense Atlantic storm, as opposed to splitting with a lot of it racing NE as ECM, GFS and UKMO all show this morning. The Pacific ridge is also rather unhelpful on the ECM 00z.


See here what a big deal that then proves to be:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013120400/ECH1-168.GIF?04-12


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/cma/runs/2013120400/cmanh-0-168.png?00




As it is, the number of things that haven't gone our way is enough to set us back another week or so in terms of realistic timeframes for any 'proper' cold, although homegrown cold does look to be very much possible in the 6-10 day timeframe if we see something close to ECM. That does tend to be rather unexciting, though 




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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
moomin75
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:36:56 AM

Wow...just looked at the 6z for the reliable - and - well - really mild springs to mind.


If we can avoid persistent gloom and get a few sunny breaks, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see 14-15c somewhere with the Foehn Effect.


So much for a cold snap...Down here the daytime temps don't fall below 7-8c now.


I'm off for 3 weeks on Saturday - so hope you guys enjoy December and Christmas and don't worry too much about the charts for a couple of days over the festive period.


What will be will be - and no amount of hopecasting/rainbow chasing/crystal ball gazing will make any difference.


This will be my last post until the new year as I've got a busy couple of days ahead - so you can all breathe a sigh of relief.


All the best guys and gals see you in 2014 (when no doubt we will be buried by 20ft snow drifts)!


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
The Beast from the East
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:40:08 AM

All the best Moomin


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
haghir22
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:42:58 AM


Wow...just looked at the 6z for the reliable - and - well - really mild springs to mind.


If we can avoid persistent gloom and get a few sunny breaks, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see 14-15c somewhere with the Foehn Effect.


So much for a cold snap...Down here the daytime temps don't fall below 7-8c now.


I'm off for 3 weeks on Saturday - so hope you guys enjoy December and Christmas and don't worry too much about the charts for a couple of days over the festive period.


What will be will be - and no amount of hopecasting/rainbow chasing/crystal ball gazing will make any difference.


This will be my last post until the new year as I've got a busy couple of days ahead - so you can all breathe a sigh of relief.


All the best guys and gals see you in 2014 (when no doubt we will be buried by 20ft snow drifts)!


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


One down


YNWA
Gooner
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:46:20 AM


Wow...just looked at the 6z for the reliable - and - well - really mild springs to mind.


If we can avoid persistent gloom and get a few sunny breaks, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see 14-15c somewhere with the Foehn Effect.


So much for a cold snap...Down here the daytime temps don't fall below 7-8c now.


I'm off for 3 weeks on Saturday - so hope you guys enjoy December and Christmas and don't worry too much about the charts for a couple of days over the festive period.


What will be will be - and no amount of hopecasting/rainbow chasing/crystal ball gazing will make any difference.


This will be my last post until the new year as I've got a busy couple of days ahead - so you can all breathe a sigh of relief.


All the best guys and gals see you in 2014 (when no doubt we will be buried by 20ft snow drifts)!


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


5c here yesterday


Just thought I would mention it


15c ....not here matey , in sunny Witney maybe with the snow shield wrapped over


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:47:15 AM


This will be my last post until the new year as I've got a busy couple of days ahead - so you can all breathe a sigh of relief.


All the best guys and gals see you in 2014 (when no doubt we will be buried by 20ft snow drifts)!


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Enjoy your trip, and we'll miss you

GFS OP again fails to build the high North but it does edge it in the right direction again.

It's fair to say the momentum that was gathering pace for a Scandy high has now diminished across the board, but as we know it can very easily be re-instated at short notice.
In teh meantime, if it's pre-Christmas snow you're after, then a week in Cyprus may be the answer


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
JoeShmoe99
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 10:47:22 AM


In Summary today there is no chance of any real cold shown in any of the output this morning under the time span covered. This gives us two weeks in which to relax from wondering whether the atmosphere will throw anything at us  


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Think that sums it up, im awaiting someone to bring up a strat forecast soon which is ususlly the sign of coldie desperation!

nsrobins
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:04:46 AM

http://www.netweather.tv/index.cgi?action=stratosphere;sess=


Unfortunately the North Pole Strat temp forecast isn't offering hope in the next 15 days>


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
ARTzeman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:07:20 AM



In Summary today there is no chance of any real cold shown in any of the output this morning under the time span covered. This gives us two weeks in which to relax from wondering whether the atmosphere will throw anything at us  


Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 


Think that sums it up, im awaiting someone to bring up a strat forecast soon which is ususlly the sign of coldie desperation!


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Back to  mundane mildness then...Not good for time of year....


Could 11/12c....






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
cowman
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:22:54 AM
I'll take this for the time being.could get four months of cold and snow yet if last year is anything to go by.sure you cold boys and girls will have some fun soon
Hungry Tiger
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:35:32 AM


Good morning folks. Here's my take on the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Wednesday December 4th 2013.


All models show a change to colder, windier and brighter conditions beginning today as the first of two weak cold fronts cross SE bringing fresher and somewhat colder conditions with some sunshine later today and some frost tonight. At this time all models also show a rapidly deepening depression crossing East to the north of Scotland and then on over Europe with a fast moving cold front moving South tomorrow bringing a narrow and short-lived burst of rain followed by very much colder weather with severe gales in the North for a time along with snow showers, appreciable on Scottish mountains for a time. High pressure then builds quickly back across Southern areas and cuts off the cold feed to bring a less cold weekend and probably rather cloudy again with a little rain possible in the North for a time.


GFS then shows the High settling to the South, most likely over France with a mild SW flow over the North and West with cloud and a little drizzle possible. The South and East will share in this benign weather pattern but here there remains a risk of patchy night frost and fog should cloud breaks occur. Things then turn more changeable for all briefly with some rain possible for just about all as troughs move through before thing again return anticyclonic and benign at the end of the run and still relatively mild for December.


UKMO today closes it's run for next Tuesday High pressure well established to the SE of Britain with relatively mild Southerly winds moving North over the UK. The North and West will likely feel the full benefit of these with largely dry and cloudy conditions while the South too sees a lot of cloud too but less mild with some mist, fog and frost patches possible at times should cloud breaks drift across in association with drier continental air to the SE.


GEM shows a similar pattern to begin the week but it pulls High pressure to more northern latitudes over Europe maintaining a ridge towards Britain. This then allows colder and brighter conditions to gradually infiltrate the South of the UK from Europe with frost and fog patches night and morning while the North clings on to milder weather.


NAVGEM is virtually the same with High pressure to the East drawing up Southerly winds with the mildest air to the North and West with the same patchy fog and frost risk likely towards more South-eastern parts of Britain.


ECM keeps High pressure towards the East and SE with a slack SE flow over the South for much of the time. There looks likely to be a lot of cloud trapped in the flow but as with the other models a SE feed from Europe could carry clearer and colder air in at times with frost and patchy fog night and morning. Further North and West this looks less likely with the mildest weather likely in the NW.


The GFS Ensemble data suggests a very dry period for Southern and Eastern areas with high uppers aloft once the cold phase clears out of the way early this weekend. There is little rain shown throughout for the South with any shown transitory to a route with more High pressure.


The Jet Stream is expected to maintain a position well Northwest of the UK next week and beyond probably near Iceland offering the UK no real chance of tapping into cold conditions anytime soon with High pressure maintained over Southern and Central Europe.


In Summary today there is no chance of any real cold shown in any of the output this morning under the time span covered. This gives us two weeks in which to relax from wondering whether the atmosphere will throw anything at us that will affect any outdoor plans as after the next few days with High pressure close to the SE days of useable benign weather conditions look likely when we will be chasing areas of cloud around to allow some pleasant and relatively mild sunshine or conversely as to how much frost and fog such clearances at night will allow. Such breaks are more likely over the South and East where conditions shouldn't be overly mild but further North and West mild weather is likely and here there is more risk of occasional rain from Atlantic fronts 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Good heavens - beginning to think a mild winter is on the cards. But it is still early.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


JOHN NI
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:37:51 AM



Good morning folks. Here's my take on the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Wednesday December 4th 2013.


All models show a change to colder, windier and brighter conditions beginning today as the first of two weak cold fronts cross SE bringing fresher and somewhat colder conditions with some sunshine later today and some frost tonight. At this time all models also show a rapidly deepening depression crossing East to the north of Scotland and then on over Europe with a fast moving cold front moving South tomorrow bringing a narrow and short-lived burst of rain followed by very much colder weather with severe gales in the North for a time along with snow showers, appreciable on Scottish mountains for a time. High pressure then builds quickly back across Southern areas and cuts off the cold feed to bring a less cold weekend and probably rather cloudy again with a little rain possible in the North for a time.


GFS then shows the High settling to the South, most likely over France with a mild SW flow over the North and West with cloud and a little drizzle possible. The South and East will share in this benign weather pattern but here there remains a risk of patchy night frost and fog should cloud breaks occur. Things then turn more changeable for all briefly with some rain possible for just about all as troughs move through before thing again return anticyclonic and benign at the end of the run and still relatively mild for December.


UKMO today closes it's run for next Tuesday High pressure well established to the SE of Britain with relatively mild Southerly winds moving North over the UK. The North and West will likely feel the full benefit of these with largely dry and cloudy conditions while the South too sees a lot of cloud too but less mild with some mist, fog and frost patches possible at times should cloud breaks drift across in association with drier continental air to the SE.


GEM shows a similar pattern to begin the week but it pulls High pressure to more northern latitudes over Europe maintaining a ridge towards Britain. This then allows colder and brighter conditions to gradually infiltrate the South of the UK from Europe with frost and fog patches night and morning while the North clings on to milder weather.


NAVGEM is virtually the same with High pressure to the East drawing up Southerly winds with the mildest air to the North and West with the same patchy fog and frost risk likely towards more South-eastern parts of Britain.


ECM keeps High pressure towards the East and SE with a slack SE flow over the South for much of the time. There looks likely to be a lot of cloud trapped in the flow but as with the other models a SE feed from Europe could carry clearer and colder air in at times with frost and patchy fog night and morning. Further North and West this looks less likely with the mildest weather likely in the NW.


The GFS Ensemble data suggests a very dry period for Southern and Eastern areas with high uppers aloft once the cold phase clears out of the way early this weekend. There is little rain shown throughout for the South with any shown transitory to a route with more High pressure.


The Jet Stream is expected to maintain a position well Northwest of the UK next week and beyond probably near Iceland offering the UK no real chance of tapping into cold conditions anytime soon with High pressure maintained over Southern and Central Europe.


In Summary today there is no chance of any real cold shown in any of the output this morning under the time span covered. This gives us two weeks in which to relax from wondering whether the atmosphere will throw anything at us that will affect any outdoor plans as after the next few days with High pressure close to the SE days of useable benign weather conditions look likely when we will be chasing areas of cloud around to allow some pleasant and relatively mild sunshine or conversely as to how much frost and fog such clearances at night will allow. Such breaks are more likely over the South and East where conditions shouldn't be overly mild but further North and West mild weather is likely and here there is more risk of occasional rain from Atlantic fronts 


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


Good heavens - beginning to think a mild winter is on the cards. But it is still early.


 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Yes there's certainly no sign of proper cold at the moment with a chilled boundary layer the best to hope for under high pressure.


John.
The orange County of Armagh.
Sevendust
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:39:15 AM



In Summary today there is no chance of any real cold shown in any of the output this morning under the time span covered. This gives us two weeks in which to relax from wondering whether the atmosphere will throw anything at us  


Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 


Think that sums it up, im awaiting someone to bring up a strat forecast soon which is ususlly the sign of coldie desperation!


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


I trawled the models before coming in here....My thoughts as well really although we may get some inversion synoptics under any slack HP so it could get quite cold at the surface at times.


As for winter as a whole, the following 10 days don't make the winter

Rob K
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:43:42 AM


 


Good heavens - beginning to think a mild winter is on the cards. But it is still early.


 


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


Ha, if there were cold synoptics showing in early December then people would be moaning about using them up too early instead of at the coldest time of year, etc etc. Plenty of time yet. If it gets to the end of January and the charts still look the same then I might start to agree...


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
David M Porter
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:47:00 AM



 


Good heavens - beginning to think a mild winter is on the cards. But it is still early.


 


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Ha, if there were cold synoptics showing in early December then people would be moaning about using them up too early instead of at the coldest time of year, etc etc. Plenty of time yet. If it gets to the end of January and the charts still look the same then I might start to agree...


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


I seem to recall from reading this thread during the second half of last December that some people thought the rest of last winter would be mild.


 A lot can and sometimes does change quickly with the model runs; I've seen it before more times that I care to remember.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
NickR
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:47:14 AM


Good heavens - beginning to think a mild winter is on the cards. But it is still early.


 


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 



Haven't you learnt from your "this summer looks like it will be awful! Make the most of the next few days, because this is it" posts from early June?


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Jonesy
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:48:35 AM

Crikey we are 4 days in to what we call Winter ( in weather terms )... Don't panic, we had winter is over crap last year and look what happened late on and into Spring.


2010 really did effect people more than I first thought.


It was only yesterday retweets and posts about IanF hinting at something in the 10/14day and everyone getting there panties excited about it.


I respect Gibby's view and work, but some people take them way too seriosly and as a forecast, I may be wrong but Gibby simply states what he see's after each output and we have seen  time and time again this can change on a daily basis, there be something popping up in FI soon and everyone will be able to breath easily again.


Shows how spoilt we have become when we don't spend much time looking at tomorrows events for some  some windy weather about which will certainly make it feel bitter.


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
Gooner
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 11:50:59 AM

Temps for MBY from GFS


8c 8c 7c 9c 11c 10c 7c 5c 4c 5c 6c 7c 8c 7c 5c


a couple of mild days then average


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nouska
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:24:34 PM


Looking at the ECM this morning, I wonder if anyone will fall into the "orange trap*"? ;P


Orange trap - the act looking at a chart with lots of orange on it in winter and assuming it means mild!

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif


Originally Posted by: Retron 


I've fallen through the orange, then yellow, and landed in a nasty grey pit.


This is the third day in a row where mid day temps are close to freezing - even though upper air levels look reasonble on the models it is currently windchill of -2C and.....











LFBA 041200Z AUTO 06004KT 0300 R29/0500N FG VV/// 01/01 Q1030

NickR
Wednesday, December 4, 2013 12:34:30 PM
As it's quiet...


>>>>>>>>>>>> CLOSING IN 2 MINUTES
Nick
Durham
[email protected]
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