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Gooner
07 December 2013 22:30:51


I confess that I'm watching I'm a Celebrity in preference to spending more than a few minues on studying model data tonight.
That's how uninspiring it all is just now.
Roll on 2 . . .


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Im watching Darren Barker defend his world title fight


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120718/gfsnh-0-186.png?18


A change does look on the cards


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Russwirral
07 December 2013 22:53:42
Its remarkable how solid the GFS is looking out til ~15th Dec. Hardly any change on current run vs old run.

This is probably best refelcted in the ensembles - with very little scatter - again until the 15th December


There are sniffs of change though, which will probably arrive after then - by the sounds - looks like it will arrrive from the west, rather than north or east.
ARTzeman
07 December 2013 22:59:33

Its remarkable how solid the GFS is looking out til ~15th Dec. Hardly any change on current run vs old run.

This is probably best refelcted in the ensembles - with very little scatter - again until the 15th December


There are sniffs of change though, which will probably arrive after then - by the sounds - looks like it will arrrive from the west, rather than north or east.

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


Perhaps some rain this time next week will make a change ...






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
Quantum
07 December 2013 23:40:11

I think the chances of any cold before xmas are diminishing fast, if you want anything that lasts more than a day. Might even have to wait until 2014 if these models keep churning out this 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Zubzero
07 December 2013 23:42:12

Even a GFS mega low can not break through 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gens-13-1-150.png?18 


Endless SW wind's as for as the eye ,models can see 

Jiries
08 December 2013 00:12:53


 must be very mild outlook if Jiries is about anyway hope you had a good summer and made lots at car bootys have a good one.


Originally Posted by: Polar Low 


It did indeed but never had a chance this Autumn boot sales except 1 once in September and early November, rest was wash out Sundays and kept looking at the models to see dry days for Sundays but some very wet Saturdays also cancelled for Sunday sales.


I see that now this current dry spell could had been useful as it look stunning on London ensembles for Sept/Oct.  I will be back deep model watching for Toronto ensembles when 7th Jan date line will appear.


 

some faraway beach
08 December 2013 00:16:46

I suppose the 12z CFS shows the way out of it, with high pressure weakly rebuilding over the Bering Strait by this time next week and the polar vortex looking a bit less cocky:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfse_cartes.php?ech=180&mode=0&carte=1&run=10


Another week of to-ing and fro-ing and we finally see high pressure more favourably aligned NW->SE over the UK, and a small low in the Atlantic now thinking about undercutting it:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfse_cartes.php?ech=348&mode=0&carte=1&run=10


Give it another week to develop over Christmas and northern blocking and undercutting becomes the norm:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfse_cartes.php?ech=516&mode=0&carte=1&run=10


I hardly need to post the map showing the UK and the Continent enveloped in cold and snow a week after that:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/cfse_cartes.php?ech=684&mode=0&carte=1&run=10


So there you are ... it really is that simple.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Russwirral
08 December 2013 00:22:32

I wouldn't worry too much about Xmas snow...its 3 weeks away, knowing the way our weather works I would rather something arrived last minute. Cold doesn't last long in this country, and usually once a breakdown occurs, the cold very rarely arrives back quickly.

In a few days the charts will look different. I've never seen the charts as settled as they are at the moment - ever. #


 


Having said that - what you are seeing in FI at the moment - most likely wont happen. so just accept it will be mild until at least Thursday or so. after that - well - let see what tomorrow brings.

Put it this way - if we were in Very cold spell, with the charts forecasting nothing but cold, would you believe it? You know sooner or later the mild weather will come calling in the form of a breakdown. For the moment, the mild setup is the flavour of the month. It will change, tomorrow, 2 days time, whenever... but it will happen. We know how quickly a breakdown from colder weather can happen - so to can it happen when we want a mild weather breakdown


Gandalf The White
08 December 2013 00:45:12


I confess that I'm watching I'm a Celebrity in preference to spending more than a few minues on studying model data tonight.
That's how uninspiring it all is just now.
Roll on 2 . . .


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


I'd sooner watch bread go stale - or turn off and read a good book....


The ECM 12z ensemble maintains the same basic theme and there are a few more colder members towards the end of the run. The mean reflects one main grouping that average to mild conditions and two others than give a cold outlook.


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html 


Interestingly the Op once again goes for a milder spell around Days 9 and 10 with a pick up in the wind and some rainfall - a trough penetrating the high pressure area.


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Chunky Pea
08 December 2013 01:14:44


I'd sooner watch bread go stale - or turn off and read a good book....


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


+1


Looking fairly mild on the ECM Ens alright. Hopefully the overall projected pattern will help spur on some decent stormy weather developing in the near Atlantic as we head into the middle part of December. There has been a overdoes of quiet weather the over the last few months.


Current Conditions
https://t.ly/MEYqg 


"You don't have to know anything to have an opinion"
--Roger P, 12/Oct/2022
Hendon Snowman
08 December 2013 02:07:37



I'd sooner watch bread go stale - or turn off and read a good book....


Originally Posted by: Chunky Pea 


 


+1


Looking fairly mild on the ECM Ens alright. Hopefully the overall projected pattern will help spur on some decent stormy weather developing in the near Atlantic as we head into the middle part of December. There has been a overdoes of quiet weather the over the last few months.


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


 


I am pretty sure we have also had some decent storms and powerful systems (even if, not record breaking) swing through or near the UK over the last couple of months 


 


I suppose its a diffrent perspective of what has occured 


 


Also this amount of blocking happening might become very useful if the high presssure behaves differently to forecasted.


 


many have suggested our pattern is very dry and mild or going to flip to a zonal pattern  


 


 Ensembles are showing much scatter after the 13th.  Its really a case of more runs needed and maybe some of the background teleconections may keep us in the character of recent winters.   


 


 


 

nsrobins
08 December 2013 08:02:27

Pert 16 on GFS ENS manages a brief Scandy high on day 9. Other than that, nothing new to report really.

We have had periods like this before. I suggest model addicts try some alternative therapies - exam revison, painting the shed, reading a decent book - and come back in a week


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
GIBBY
08 December 2013 08:42:34

Good morning everyone. Here is my interpretation of the midnight outputs from GFS, UKMO, GEM, NAVGEM and ECM for today Sunday December 8th 2013.


The General Situation. All models show a pattern of High pressure over France with a Westerly flow of winds across the UK, strongest in the North. Through the coming week the trend will be for winds to back more towards the SW and then South with even milder air affecting the North and West in particular through the coming week with some further rain at times towards the NW as Atlantic fronts brush by. In the SE there are still some signs that it may be a little less mild than elsewhere with a drift off the Continent for a time midweek and mist and fog could be present on some nights between now and Thursday. Towards the end of the week though High pressure remains stubbornly to the SE and mild SW winds will affect all areas with further rain in the NW which may extend further SE next weekend in what could become very windy weather in the NW.


GFS then shows next weekend as windy and mild with rain at times. This extends into week 2 with the trend for winds to veer more towards the West and later NW drawing colder air South and East across the UK behind successive depressions and cold fronts with temperatures returning to normal and a little below in the North. With rain at times likely for all by then some of this will fall as snow over Northern hills before the end of the run.


UKMO for next Saturday maintains High pressure down over SE Europe with a broad and mild SW flow over Britain with troughs out to the West delivering some rain to the North and West of the UK while the South and East remain largely dry but cloudy.


GEM today keeps High pressure over Germany next weekend very much in control with just local variations on temperatures and cloud cover the only likely items of interest in an otherwise benign pattern. The High does show signs of weakening for a day or so before intensifying again near SE Britain at the end of the run with a renewed period of fine weather but maybe a little colder with mist and fog possible in light winds.


NAVGEM is resilient to showing any major changes either as it ends it's run with mild SW winds bathing the UK in dry and rather cloudy weather though a rogue weak trough could deliver a little rain for a time next weekend and rather more frequently over the NW.


ECM does also show a rather windier spell for all next weekend but still potentially very mild in a strong SW breeze. Occasional rain could occur almost aywhere as weak troughs pass NE but this becomes restricted to NW Britain later as High pressure remains in total control stretching in a belt from the Azores to Southern Europe by early next week and lockning the UK in a mild SW flow for some considerable time to follow Day 10 if verified as shown.


The GFS Ensembles this morning show little change to that being shown in previous runs. There seems little support to exit the UK out of this locked pattern of mild SW winds which only slowly lose their very mild uppers status late in the run. However, a drift to average upper levels is unlikely to make much difference down at the surface as SW winds just become more unstable with rain at times for all likely later with winds still blowing for the most part over the UK from a mild Atlantic point.


The Jet Stream this morning remains at odds with delivering cold weather with the flow running NE strongly between Scotland and Iceland. Over the coming week this flow moves even further North for a time before the continuing trend to slip it back further SE to be crossing NE over the UK in Week 2. It's orientation does change slightly late in the run to a more direct East flow over Britain as High pressure collapses over Europe and relocates near the Azores, Southern France and Spain.


In Summary this morning there remains little sign of change in conditions over the UK for the next few weeks. In such conditions it is unlikely that anywhere above mountain top location will see a white Christmas this year if this morning's charts verify. The UK seems locked in a South or SW flow with High pressure persistent over SE Europe bathing the UK in potentially very mild and cloudy air. Some local low level cold inversions may affect the South briefly midweek but other than that cold remains on hold for now. Rainfall amounts will be small in the South though the NW could see quite a bit of rain at times as troughs brush past in a strengthening SW flow here later in the week. There are then small signs of this sinking SE to affect many areas through Week 2 with rain at times for all should it occur but it looks unlikely that such a change would result in anything very wintry soon afterwards as High pressure is shown remaining locked strongly over Southern Europe and the Azores.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Retron
08 December 2013 09:09:09
0z ECM ensembles:

http://oi43.tinypic.com/wleqkw.jpg 

After a short average spell it looks like increasing Atlantic influence and temperatures rise above average by the end of the week. There's not much appetite amongst the ensemble members to maintain a Continental flow beyond a few days.

FWIW yesterday's EPS control run shows southerlies persisting out to day 10, whereupon a monster Atlantic low brings wet and windy weather across the UK. Beyond that - generally unsettled.
Leysdown, north Kent
Gooner
08 December 2013 09:25:38

0z ECM ensembles:

http://oi43.tinypic.com/wleqkw.jpg

After a short average spell it looks like increasing Atlantic influence and temperatures rise above average by the end of the week. There's not much appetite amongst the ensemble members to maintain a Continental flow beyond a few days.

FWIW yesterday's EPS control run shows southerlies persisting out to day 10, whereupon a monster Atlantic low brings wet and windy weather across the UK. Beyond that - generally unsettled.

Originally Posted by: Retron 


wonderful


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
08 December 2013 10:18:54

GEM offers something slightly different and GFS now going up to Christmas and signs of a pattern change by then.


Would be a delicious irony if we get a northerly blast in time for the big day !


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Stormchaser
08 December 2013 10:22:55

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20131208/00/ecmt850.144.png


The ECM 00z has some very intense storms in the Atlantic! I daresay this one would have sustained winds of hurricane force. The temperature gradient does look to be truly immense out there, and there is a growing signal for the PV to migrate eastward again towards Siberia (though admittedly ECM itself is far from convincing in that respect), which to me indicates the risk of an extreme wind event some time in the next fortnight.


Funny that GFS manages to throw us a severe winter storm for Christmas Eve.


 


The PV sure is looking fiesty these days, though it does remain curiously unable to stabilise in one area.


 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Gooner
08 December 2013 10:47:43

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn37217.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3721.png


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2013120806/gfsnh-0-372.png?6


I would be happy with this in the run up to the big day, dry and cold , very seasonal


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


JoeShmoe99
08 December 2013 11:18:21

Have to say the Express were spot on with 100 days of heavy snow and worst winter for 60 years


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/443462/Winter-2013-expected-to-be-worst-since-1947-with-heavy-and-persistent-snow-forecast-for-UK


ARTzeman
08 December 2013 11:24:42

384 hrs is long time to wait for THE change...






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
johnm1976
08 December 2013 13:15:06

Hi all I don't comment very often and definitely do not consider myself any kind of expert, but it looks to me like GFS is consistently modelling a minor stratospheric warming over north east Asia from approx 204h out and this is displacing the vortex in our direction.


This is why GFS has been toying with the jet heading south and giving us a cold zonal type of set up in FI athough it hasn't been consistent. Look at the 10hPa on the 6z.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=10&ech=204&carte=1


One to watch?


I'd be interested to read what those who know more think?

nouska
08 December 2013 13:26:57
BCC is seeing a mid month change too - hard to see it though, from current output,

http://cmdp.ncc.cma.gov.cn/pred/md/MD2013122/MD2013122NH_H5D1_1.GIF 

http://cmdp.ncc.cma.gov.cn/pred/md/MD2013122/MD2013122NH_H5D2_1.GIF 

GFS 100mb height chart - away out at 384 - might be pointing to something more northerly?

http://i.imgur.com/MeA0pUi.gif 
speckledjim
08 December 2013 13:29:29


Have to say the Express were spot on with 100 days of heavy snow and worst winter for 60 years


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/443462/Winter-2013-expected-to-be-worst-since-1947-with-heavy-and-persistent-snow-forecast-for-UK



Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 

along with James Madden of Exacta, who is now claiming the heavy snow and huge drifts will begin on the 23rd December 


Thorner, West Yorkshire


Journalism is organised gossip
jondg14
08 December 2013 13:31:39


Hi all I don't comment very often and definitely do not consider myself any kind of expert, but it looks to me like GFS is consistently modelling a minor stratospheric warming over north east Asia from approx 204h out and this is displacing the vortex in our direction.


This is why GFS has been toying with the jet heading south and giving us a cold zonal type of set up in FI athough it hasn't been consistent. Look at the 10hPa on the 6z.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?mode=10&ech=204&carte=1


One to watch?


I'd be interested to read what those who know more think?


Originally Posted by: johnm1976 


I can't claim to know much about it but that looks a negligible warming that would have very little effect on the troposphere. The stratosphere looks like staying very cold with no sign of a significant warming event.


The last couple of years have seen SSWs in January so keep watching (and hoping!)

Quantum
08 December 2013 13:46:47



Have to say the Express were spot on with 100 days of heavy snow and worst winter for 60 years


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/443462/Winter-2013-expected-to-be-worst-since-1947-with-heavy-and-persistent-snow-forecast-for-UK



Originally Posted by: speckledjim 

along with James Madden of Exacta, who is now claiming the heavy snow and huge drifts will begin on the 23rd December 


Originally Posted by: JoeShmoe99 


You didn't buy his forecasts did you!?


Anyway he will be wrong, I see virtually no chance of snow before xmas. The charts couldn't be more pessimistic. 


 


EDIT: I see you mean his facebook page. Does he seriously think a pathetic surface high over Europe with absolutely no WAA, and a badass PV stuck right over the arctic means a scandi high? if there is no support up north then the natural solution is to keep the blocking well to the south and the jet flat. My CET prediction is going to be dreadful, with this month looking like it could come out above average barring any inversions that last for weeks on end. Can anyone offer me even the slightest straw at all? I even see stratospheric cooling forecast.


Worst


December


Ever.


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
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