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GIBBY
12 December 2013 07:13:20

Hi folks. Just a quick summary for me before off to work. 


In Summary the models all show a potentially stormy and generally mild period in the run up to Christmas and probably over Christmas too with some rapidly deepening depressions spinning across the Atlantic and up to the NW of Britain with SW gale or severe gales and temperatures remaining generally on the mild side of average. In among the periods of rain some brighter and showery conditions will rush over at times and temperatures will fall briefly to average with some wintry showers over northern hills. But from this morning' output this looks the best we can hope for between now and maybe the New Year as the very strong Jet Stream continues unabated across the Atlantic and the UK supported by High pressure over Southern Europe.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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Arcus
12 December 2013 08:20:15
A nasty satellite low develops on ECM next Thurs. Quite a few of these coming through on all models, looks pretty wet'n'wild as an outlook at present.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.gif 

Ben,
Nr. Easingwold, North Yorkshire
30m asl
Rob K
12 December 2013 08:29:17
Yes all that talk of a record dry December and utterly boring benign weather "locked in for weeks" looks a bit foolish now, doesn't it? Always remember how rapidly the models can change, as demonstrated this week 🙂
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
KevBrads1
12 December 2013 08:32:22

The models continue to torture coldies today. You know when things are bad when the best hope is for slush in the far north above 150 meters from Groundhog Day zonal patterns.

Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


Indeed looking very zonal, looks like another depressing damp Xmas day 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Manchester_ens.png

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



Another? Wet Christmas Days have been pretty rare recently around our neck of the woods.


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nsrobins
12 December 2013 09:07:18

A nasty satellite low develops on ECM next Thurs. Quite a few of these coming through on all models, looks pretty wet'n'wild as an outlook at present.
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.gif

Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Yes the set-up is now conducive for the development of daughter lows bombing around the periphery of the parent low. If the jet phases in sync with one of these we could have a nasty situation.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
nouska
12 December 2013 09:26:00
The next step in the sequence @ +174.

http://i.imgur.com/mBCJNHL.png 

I wonder if this (if it develops) will track further south as on many recent occasions.
roger63
12 December 2013 09:31:22


The models are suggesting that blocking highs develop right the way across from N.E. Asia to the (western) U.S., placing pressure onthe PV and pushing it over to our side i.e. close to our over the UK.


It brings an epic cross polar flow to the U.S., although it's not a smooth affair on ECM and GFS chooses to deflect it out across the Atlantic.


It all starts with a bit of PV energy trracking well south over the Pacific and providing support for a high latitude block there, which then encroaches on the Pole. The critical point for this is now at around 120 hours, so we've got a good chance of seeing the process get started. Whether it will succeed in displacing the PV right over to the UK remains to be seen.


 


It's something to watch. That's it really... at this stage.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Fascinating analysis Stormchaser.Lets hope that it will eventually shift the south westerly flow which promises currently a mild windy Xmas day.

Stormchaser
12 December 2013 09:58:12

The theme of blocking over the other side of the pole remains this morning. ECM actually splits the energy apart on day 10, but with part of the energy heading to Canada, we'd be looking for our own PV section to dominate affairs and drive the Atlantic lows south.


Unfortunately, unless something seriously depletes the PV energy, it will be hard to get more than a backend cold blast or two. I say 'blast' because of how energetic the storms are looking - could eventually deliver a brief but remarkable blizzard somewhere.


By eventually, I mean probably after Christmas Day, I'm afraid 


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Russwirral
12 December 2013 11:22:27
http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131212/06/168/h850t850eu.png 

Heavy snow to the north and west of the LP.

If this ends up on the path of Jude (ie a more southerly route) - we could see a surprise evaporating cooling snowfall.

Like i said yesterday - lots of potential for short lived snowfall events next week.
Quantum
12 December 2013 11:26:03

Suprisingly ECM has put out another decent set of charts, with some similar features to last night. In particular we have even bigger height rises over the arctic this time. When and if this stuff starts to appear on the GFS I might be able to say with some confidence when the next cold spell is possible. 


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2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
JoeShmoe99
12 December 2013 13:55:07

As well as all the hopecasting for cold and looking deep into FI in the short term theres some very interesting charts around


Next week looks especially interesting with some potentially nasty storms, esp on Thurs


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.gif


Is that sting jet potential?

Gavin P
12 December 2013 14:00:54

Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


Stormy Next Weelk - Where's The Cold?


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Looks like the US in some dangerous cold while we face an Atlantic onslaught.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
roger63
12 December 2013 14:35:02

K Outlook for Tuesday 17 Dec 2013 to Thursday 26 Dec 2013:


Through next week it should remain windy across much of the UK. The most unsettled weather will be in the north and west, where there will be a continuing risk of heavy rain and severe gales. Across the south and east the rain should be less widespread and the winds more moderate. Generally mild although some wintry showers are possible in the northwest, and there will be some overnight frosts. Through next weekend and into the following week there is still likely to be the risk of severe gales and heavy rain mainly in the northwest. It should still be mild at times, however there is an increasing chance of temperatures dropping to near or below normal, bringing a risk of frost generally and snow over northern high ground.


Updated: 1150 on Thu 12 Dec 2013


Looks like METO forsee a cooler interval over the Xmas period prsumably with a W/NW flow or ridge following a trough.

nsrobins
12 December 2013 14:40:41


Looks like METO forsee a cooler interval over the Xmas period prsumably with a W/NW flow or ridge following a trough.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


Yep pretty much what the output is showing - mean to mild mobility trending cooler zonal in time with a more polar maritime influence.

Better than benign high pressure? If you're fence panels and roof tiles start flying, you might think not.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
12 December 2013 16:14:19

Looks more like autumn weather now in prospect rather than winter. Although there's little hope of anything of the cold and wintry variety down here for some time, the suggestion of some slingshot satellite lows as the jet pushes south will hopefully snatch my model watching pulse from imminent morbidity.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
idj20
12 December 2013 17:03:23

Although it does look set to be rather windy and unsettled over Northern and Western parts over the weekend, GFS is showing a distinct downgrade in terms of storminess as we go into next week which is reassuring for me, but ECM is going off on one (but thats stilll based on the midnight runs ). 
  I guess that's all part of the models still trying to get to grips with it all as they continue to fine tune things.


Folkestone Harbour. 
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
12 December 2013 17:34:54

I have seen GFS 12z Model Run at the 500 hPa, GFS Stratosphere North Hem Temperatures, GFS Pacific USA Atlantic North (W to E)' Russia and Asia and the Arctic, that included MSLP, 1000-500hPa heights in all those areas mentioned on with GFS 12z run.

And I checked T850 hPa and 500hPa GFS North Hem, and Europe Atlantic as well, a large intake of info to interpret the Outlook from now to upto t168 and t192hrs.

The Situation has Very Old Airmass in W and NW Russia, N and NW and NE Siberia and through Canada, USA Central and NE plus NNW and NE Europe, Iceland NW and Far N and far NE Atlantic that includes Svalbard and much of Eastern and SE to mid Norwegian Sea and all over and out wards over and in Greenland and it's SEA- Surface forecasted Temps at 850 hPa are at -10 to -30 deg C and some -5's for the UK at times too.

The -70 to -75 even -78 or lower Temps in the Stratosphere for N NW and NE UK and Canada NE USA, Greenland Iceland much of the Arctic very cold from now to T192 hrs. South and SW at first in USA High Strat temps of -40 c, moves to SE USA and Central South mid Atlantic area during mid and latter part in the forecast, and high over W Central Africa and close to and near over South Asia is High pressure which spreads SW to the other West SW Central Africa Regions.

The Polar Arctic Vortex Shape and it's intense low Temps spread out covers lots of areas as much out from the Central Pole that it covers it affects Canada Iceland Siberia NE and N Europe UK and Iceland affected as well! and the PV Low's Pressure and a vortexes are large Strong things, with Stormy and Cold to less Cold Waves interaction with Short and long Wave Low's and Trof's etc.

The UK get hit as well as NE and N USA and many other large parts of N Hemisphere!!!.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
12 December 2013 18:22:37
UKMO 12z Commentary.

This Friday it Turns Wet and Windy- it will be mild but turn colder from the West.

This Saturday Mild or Cool in the South and SE, Windy with heavy Rain and cooler in West and NW UK, rain on and off for all parts Overcast.

Very Windy NW and N, later this Saturday in N Ireland and Scotland.

Sunday all areas plenty of Strong Winds and areas of Overcast and Heavy Rain, near Av. temps.

Monday West and N to NE windiest with more of the Rain, with Central South and SW parts seeing some dry and bright sun, but Showers possible for the West SW and in the North of this part, winds moderate or light in Central and South.

Turning Colder overnight and more Deep Low pressure moves across the SW to to NE very windy for several hours in Evening and early on Tuesday.

It will later on Tuesday lift the temps from SW ahead of Wednesday and Thursday's area of Low Preesure and it will stay milder for Wednesday next Week, but then cold and Showery with some hail and Sleet or Hill plus Mountain Snow or sleet showers with Winds from the NW direction after it is SW then West flow from Tuesday night to Wednesday Night.

This Weather System will bring Severe Gales and and Storm Surges for West SW South and NW and NE plus the East as well on Wednesday through Thursday.

Thursday could turn very cold and windy with frost overnight, and Another Deep NW Atlantic PV low will cross Friday and Saturday - At day 8 and day 9, it will bring Severe Gales with prolonged heavy and active torrential rain then turn colder with NW winds by Saturday or Sunday, and then plenty of heavy and blustery showers with hill sleet and snow possible.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Gooner
12 December 2013 18:27:30

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn9617.png


Mild


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png


Then a shock for many


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn14417.png


chilly


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn16817.png


chillier still


Some days much more akin to December from GFS


 


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
12 December 2013 18:28:49

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3121.png


XMAS day looks awful...............................on this run


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


nsrobins
12 December 2013 18:43:44

Nothing changed as another day goes by. Classic sinusoidal ENS pattern indicative of a zonal steam train with no MLB or HLB of note in sight in our third of the N Hemisphere.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
12 December 2013 18:43:45

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH0-168.GIF?12-0


Changeable and cooler from ECM


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH1-168.GIF?12-0


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
12 December 2013 19:25:28

ECM shows stubborn high pressure over Europe


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH1-240.GIF


and no let up in the temperature gradient over the Pond


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH0-240.GIF


 


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gavin P
12 December 2013 19:35:51


ECM shows stubborn high pressure over Europe


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH1-240.GIF


and no let up in the temperature gradient over the Pond


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH0-240.GIF


 


Originally Posted by: RobN 


I think we'll be hearing a lot about brutal cold and disruptive snow across the States this holiday season - Just to rub salt into the wounds.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
nickl
12 December 2013 20:45:18


ECM shows stubborn high pressure over Europe


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH1-240.GIF


and no let up in the temperature gradient over the Pond


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013121212/ECH0-240.GIF


 


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


I think we'll be hearing a lot about brutal cold and disruptive snow across the States this holiday season - Just to rub salt into the wounds.

Originally Posted by: RobN 



I wonder if we can 'see ' their cold December and 'raise' them our own frigid jan/feb?

gawd, I've turned into madden!

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