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NickR
21 December 2013 22:27:11


Models really are looking the worst I've seen since I've been model watching (2000) in terms of storms for Tuesday and Friday - Horrendous stuff.


Suspect you'd have to go back to Christmas/New Year 97/98 for a comparatively horrendous period?


Not a winter cold/snow lovers will be wanting to compare 13/14 to I'm sure.


 


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Agreed.


THough Monday and Monday night  looks worse than Tuesday for the bulk of the UK.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Gavin P
21 December 2013 22:35:11



Models really are looking the worst I've seen since I've been model watching (2000) in terms of storms for Tuesday and Friday - Horrendous stuff.


Suspect you'd have to go back to Christmas/New Year 97/98 for a comparatively horrendous period?


Not a winter cold/snow lovers will be wanting to compare 13/14 to I'm sure.


 


Originally Posted by: NickR 


Agreed.


THough Monday and Monday night  looks worse than Tuesday for the bulk of the UK.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Yeah, what makes Tuesday's gales so bad for Scotland though is the fact it's occuring  through the day on Christmas Eve when people WILL obviously be travelling about a lot.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Russwirral
21 December 2013 22:37:57

interesting little feature over central britain

http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20131221/18/114/hgt500-1000.png



could bring some seasonal weather to some!


Gooner
21 December 2013 22:50:55

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn601.png


As has been mentioned, parts of N England, N Ireland and Scotland will get battered


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
21 December 2013 22:52:17

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1621.png


A large area of the UK will feel the full force of the following LP


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gavin P
21 December 2013 22:55:55

Looks like these storms finish at the end of the year and we'll get a pattern change early January.


Will be interesting to see where we end up after these storms - In the previously mentioned winter of 97-98, after the Christmas/New Year storms we finished ended up with... Spring


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/1998/Rrea00119980110.gif


 


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
nouska
21 December 2013 23:02:01




I noticed a somewhat odd pressure pattern near the French/Italian border:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122112/ECF1-120.GIF?21-0


Data error or is there something else going on, I wonder?


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Yeah, I noticed that as well, Peter. I imagine that tomorrow's model runs will go a long way towards clearing that one up one way or the other.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


i would put that down to some sort of topography impact.. it matches exactly the contours of the Alps. 


 


Infact wouldnt a strong wind across the alps create the lift required that would reflect in a very strong dip in pressure?  makes sense to me.


 


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


That is correct - a combination of Mistral and Tramontane creating a very tight squeeze up against the mountains.


Example  http://i.imgur.com/qRO69TZ.jpg

Gooner
22 December 2013 01:03:55


Looks like these storms finish at the end of the year and we'll get a pattern change early January.


Will be interesting to see where we end up after these storms - In the previously mentioned winter of 97-98, after the Christmas/New Year storms we finished ended up with... Spring


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/1998/Rrea00119980110.gif


 


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


 Surely you aren't pattern matching ??


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Sevendust
22 December 2013 01:21:16



Looks like these storms finish at the end of the year and we'll get a pattern change early January.


Will be interesting to see where we end up after these storms - In the previously mentioned winter of 97-98, after the Christmas/New Year storms we finished ended up with... Spring


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/1998/Rrea00119980110.gif


 

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Surely you aren't pattern matching ??


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


Gav never does that

Whether Idle
22 December 2013 06:11:47

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/vent-rafales/48h.htm


According to the GFS things have got no better and possibly worse as purples now showing up in English Channel (gusts > 130kmh), this is for midnight on Christmas Eve. 


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Sevendust
22 December 2013 06:23:33


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/vent-rafales/48h.htm


According to the GFS things have got no better and possibly worse as purples now showing up in English Channel (gusts > 130kmh), this is for midnight on Christmas Eve. 


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


The T60 fax is a shocker for Scotland. The isobaric tightening is scary.


 

doctormog
22 December 2013 06:32:13
Yes, it looks like if anything the outlook has become worse overnight.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm601.gif 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn601.png 

The cross-model agreement on the track and intensity of this storm looks worryingly consistent now.
Whether Idle
22 December 2013 06:49:16



http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/vent-rafales/48h.htm


According to the GFS things have got no better and possibly worse as purples now showing up in English Channel (gusts > 130kmh), this is for midnight on Christmas Eve. 


 


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


The T60 fax is a shocker for Scotland. The isobaric tightening is scary.


 


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Yes, its not what we had hoped.  Locally, its the tightening of the pressure gardient that is caused as the monster low deepens butting up against the high over Europe, resulting in sustained speeds of 46mph and gusts of 80mph, the 48 h fax shows the tightening of the isobars in the far SE; the GFS shows it perhaps even more tightly:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ukmo2.php?ech=48&carte=2000  fax


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=48&mode=0 gfs


 


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
JACKO4EVER
22 December 2013 07:16:06

Looks like these storms finish at the end of the year and we'll get a pattern change early January.


Will be interesting to see where we end up after these storms - In the previously mentioned winter of 97-98, after the Christmas/New Year storms we finished ended up with... Spring


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/archive/ra/1998/Rrea00119980110.gif


 

Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


There have been a few indicators of a pressure rise to the south on some runs so that's a very plausible possibility.
In the meantime it's looking very stormy indeed
tinybill
22 December 2013 08:31:59
models suggesting the beast has deepened over night ,and after that there could be deeper ones heading our way to the new year
Andy Woodcock
22 December 2013 09:01:19
Nothing in the models for coldies this morning, more cool zonality with less sign of pressure rises to the north or south.

The intensity of the zonal flow reduces and by New Year's Day we are in a very typical westerly flow.

Few people will see snow over the next 10 days but the mountains in Scotland will see tons of the stuff which will lead to a bumper new year at the ski resorts.

The Great Christmas Storm of 2013 is still a worry and I hope the National Grid have got plenty of engineers on stand by or it could be cold Turkey for many

I wish I had booked that Villa in Lanzarote while I had the chance, 22c and 6 hours of sun Christmas Day!

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
JoeShmoe99
22 December 2013 09:06:08

Yes, it looks like if anything the outlook has become worse overnight.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm601.gif 
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn601.png 

The cross-model agreement on the track and intensity of this storm looks worryingly consistent now.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 



Yes, if anything it's got slightly worse, it looks nailed on and I suspect the travel disruption and power outages this will cause headlines
NickR
22 December 2013 09:06:53

Nothing in the models for coldies this morning, more cool zonality with less sign of pressure rises to the north or south.

The intensity of the zonal flow reduces and by New Year's Day we are in a very typical westerly flow.

Few people will see snow over the next 10 days but the mountains in Scotland will see tons of the stuff which will lead to a bumper new year at the ski resorts.

The Great Christmas Storm of 2013 is still a worry and I hope the National Grid have got plenty of engineers on stand by or it could be cold Turkey for many

I wish I had booked that Villa in Lanzarote while I had the chance, 22c and 6 hours of sun Christmas Day!

Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


...and the one on the 27th/28th looks pretty shocking too:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1381.png


 


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
GIBBY
22 December 2013 09:11:01

Good morning everyone. Here is this morning's look at the synoptics for the UK over the run up to Christmas, Christmas itself, run up to the New Year and into the first days of 2014 data supplied from the midnight outputs from the NWP for Sunday December 22nd 2013.


All models show a showery WSW flow today which will deliver scattered showers and breezy weather to all areas with some heavy and wintry showers over the hills of the North. Tonight shows winds backing SW as a rapidly deepening depression in mid Atlantic moves NE towards the NW of Scotland tomorrow with a very wet and windy spell for all with severe gales and potentially storm force winds in the NW for a while. Clearer and more showery weather will reach the West and North by dusk. Christmas Eve then shows all areas in a very windy and showery WSW flow again with showers, turning progressively wintry on Northern and Central hills through the day. Any remaining rain from the previous day will clear the SE. Christmas Day and Boxing Day shows isobars opening up over the UK giving much less windy days with as a result many inland areas staying dry and bright in rather cold winter sunshine. However, Western coasts and hills will be peppered with showers and where these are allowed to drift inland on prevailing winds they could be heavy and wintry. Late on Boxing Day winds will back SW and freshen again markedly with Friday seeing another very deep depression close to NW Britain with another area of very strong winds and rain followed by showers the order of the period as we approach next weekend.


GFS then show the rest of the period between Christmas and the New Year as remaining unsettled and windy with showers and periods of rain. Though rather chilly at times in the North under the more showery interludes the South looks like it could turn milder as pressure builds over Europe. Into the first days of the New Year a brief colder and drier interlude is quickly squashed away South as Westerly winds return though with pressure staying high not far from the South all areas will become quite mild with rainfall much more restricted to far Northern and NW areas.


UKMO closes it's output for next Saturday with deep Low pressure up to the West of Scotland with a strong to gale WSW wind blowing everywhere with further rain or showers in very average temperatures.


GEM shows pressure building over Europe next weekend and while this period will be still influenced by Low pressure North of the UK with attendant rain and showers with time the worst of the weather will transfer more towards the North and West while Southern and Eastern parts slowly turn less wet and rather milder.


NAVGEM remains very unsettled next weekend with Low pressure still covering sea areas North of Scotland with strong and blustery West or SW winds over Britain with heavy rain at times in largely very average temperatures.


ECM keeps the unsettled and windy theme going throughout the post Christmas period and up to the New Year with Low pressure close to northern Britain throughout. As a result there will plenty more wind and rain though the threat of damaging winds should steadily diminish. Temperatures look like holding close to average for all.


The GFS Ensembles today show virtually no chance of any significant cold weather developing on a natuionwide scale at all over the last week of this year nor the first week of the New Year. Instead uppers are locked solid at average levels as far as the eye can see and with plenty of rain spikes from all members at times the Atlantic remains in complete control of this seasons UK Winter so far. The damaging winds of the current period do look like becoming less of an issue as we reach the New Year but rainfall amounts could continue to be a problem on flood plains and other susceptible low lying areas.


The Jet Stream continues to pump actively out of the States for the duration of this morning's output. It oscillates between a position over and to the South of the UK over the next week in response to the ebb and flow of the low pressure systems to it's North. In Week 2 a temporary weakening of strength is short lived as a new surge is shown crossing the Atlantic towards the UK later in week 2.


In Summary the weather remains locked in an Atlantic pattern which looks like refusing to lie down. There are plenty more active and powerful Low pressure areas between now and the New Year each producing their own version of gales, heavy rain followed by showers with the chance of wintry showers over the hills at times, largely in the North. In Week 2 there are some signs of pressure rising over the Meditteranean Sea and pulling the Jet flow more NE towards Scandinavia and as a result sucking milder air across the South and East while maintaining quite unsettled but less stormy conditions however, this all looks tentative at the moment. The one constant between all the models being that not one shows any excursion into anything cold and wintry so we are left stuck looking at wind and rain events for the foreseeable and staring at the computer models outermost limits for seeking any embryonic signs of change. I think the 240 hr mean chart sums up our problem for cold weather fans this morning considering this is a chart for 10 days from now.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
nsrobins
22 December 2013 09:16:43

Thanks Martin and another succinct summary.

Without appearing to blow smoke up your arse, these posts are excellent and the effort you put into them is much appreciated.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
ARTzeman
22 December 2013 09:18:26

Thanks Martin.


A difficult call to make for after day 10.


But weather seems a  better for the festivities.






Some people walk in the rain.
Others just get wet.
I Just Blow my horn or trumpet
sriram
22 December 2013 09:44:58
What people forget is that last dec was the same as this year and the pattern changed mid jan with snow and freezing cold that lasted till March

Regardless of how strong the Atlantic is the pattern can and will change for snow fans in jan
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
GIBBY
22 December 2013 09:46:07

Thanks Guys. I'm gald you enjoy reading them.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
David M Porter
22 December 2013 10:04:40

What people forget is that last dec was the same as this year and the pattern changed mid jan with snow and freezing cold that lasted till March

Regardless of how strong the Atlantic is the pattern can and will change for snow fans in jan

Originally Posted by: sriram 


The second half of last December was certainly very unsettled, although I don't recall any instances of very high winds during that spell like we are seeing at the moment. There was a lot of rain with with flooding in places, not at all surprising after a very wet year generally that also saw the wettest summer in 100 years. Thankfully I don't think the flooding risk will be so great this year after a rather drier year overall.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Hungry Tiger
22 December 2013 10:15:48


Thanks Martin and another succinct summary.

Without appearing to blow smoke up your arse, these posts are excellent and the effort you put into them is much appreciated.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 



I'll second that Neil. Those forecast summaries from Martin are excellent. 


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


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