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Phil G
24 December 2013 17:29:36

GFS must be onto something...

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 



Has been for a few days now, with variations on a theme.
Pressure falling over the continent, with HP moving in from the NE.
Whether Idle
24 December 2013 17:50:28




GFS must be onto something...


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 


 


or ON something


Originally Posted by: Bugglesgate 



Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


.  Surely we all reralise the chances of that (384h) happening are probably in the region of 1/200.  A lovely Christmas Present nevertheless for model watchers from good ol' GFS


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
White Meadows
24 December 2013 17:56:40
There's still no evidence to support the 'lack of data' over Xmas myth.
John p
24 December 2013 17:59:35

There's still no evidence to support the 'lack of data' over Xmas myth.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



I'd like to point out my post was tongue in cheek and in no way do I support the lack of data theory.

Wish I hadn't bothered now!


Camberley, Surrey
Retron
24 December 2013 18:09:55

There's still no evidence to support the 'lack of data' over Xmas myth.

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


It's not a myth - it's a fact that there is less data going into the models on Christmas Day (and into Boxing Day in our part of the world, as it's still Christmas Day in America). If you're lucky enough for it to be selected as the freebie you'll see the ECMWF data acquisition chart on ecmwf.int - the lower amount of data stands out like a sore thumb on Christmas Day.


That's about the only time there is less input data than normal though.


Whether or not a little less data going in has any noticable effect is another matter, of course. In theory it shouldn't matter too much as the manual and plane obs are only a small part of the total data input - and as such shouldn't cause a sudden switch to a less-progressive set of charts. It's funny how often the models have a less-progressive blip in our part of the world over Christmas though, although I suspect it's just coincidence.


 


Leysdown, north Kent
nouska
24 December 2013 18:49:00


 



Stunning FI


Some early Christmas cheer from GFS


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Lack of data


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Not at all....that's just Santa getting his ass in gear and realising he had better do something about all the letters requesting a Greenland /Scandinavian high for Christmas.

Gooner
24 December 2013 18:57:14

There's still no evidence to support the 'lack of data' over Xmas myth.

Originally Posted by: John p 



I'd like to point out my post was tongue in cheek and in no way do I support the lack of data theory.

Wish I hadn't bothered now!

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 


Its ok, I understood it was


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 December 2013 18:58:30

Dear o dear


Clearly people cannot see humour in someone's post


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
24 December 2013 19:03:33

Some interesting options in the GFS ENS


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


David M Porter
24 December 2013 19:12:34

ECM 12z also seems to go with the idea of the Polar Vortwx gradually weakening as we go into the early part of January. Heights to the north of the UK are still low, but interestingly the purple colours that have been in evidence over Greenland and eastern USA seem to have gone by the 240hr chart on tonight's ECM.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/wz/pics/Recm2401.gif


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
Gandalf The White
24 December 2013 19:24:09


ECM 12z also seems to go with the idea of the Polar Vortwx gradually weakening as we go into the early part of January. Heights to the north of the UK are still low, but interestingly the purple colours that have been in evidence over Greenland and eastern USA seem to have gone by the 240hr chart on tonight's ECM.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/wz/pics/Recm2401.gif


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Yes, there does seem to be a trend but it's slow and erratic.  On top of that there is the minor problem of that 1,040mb anticyclone just north of the Azores.   Unless that fades away we're not getting a southerly jet - of course it could build north and force the jet the long way round north of Iceland I suppose.


Anyway, the general trend is still OK - the 00z ECM ensemble pushed up the cold runs past Day 10 a little and it will be interesting to see how the 12z ensemble run has gone.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


GIBBY
24 December 2013 19:30:59

Good evening. Here is the Christmas Eve report on today's NWP midday output.


All models show an intense Low close to NW Scotland moving slowly North and filling slowly. A rather cold SW flow covers the UK with most showers over the Christmas period hugging coastal areas facing South and West and it maybe that many inland areas stay largely dry and bright with some sunshine by day with a touch of frost by night. Where showers do occur they could be heavy and wintry over any high ground above 250 mtrs. By the end of Boxing Day a new storm is shown to move in off the Atlantic with further very strong winds and heavy rain commencing 48 hrs from now in the SW and spreading quickly NE to all areas overnight. On Friday the rain will clear East to sunshine and showers in a strong WSW wind again and snow will fall from these showers too over the hills in the North. This showery theme then continues over next weekend with the showers dying away on Sunday as a weak ridge is shown to cross from the West.


GFS then shows another storm system to take us up to the New Year with yet another Low pressure coming into the UK from the West. This then fills in situ over the days up to the New Year and into 2014 itself with showers or outbreaks of rain, falling as snow over the hills in decreasing winds over the period. Low pressure then pulls down from the NW and settles towards the SE of Britain by the end of the run with a change to much colder and unsettled weather with sleet and snow becoming much more prominent should it verify in a cold and blustery NE flow with High pressure having built North through mid Atlantic.


UKMO tonight shows next Monday with a new Low pressure in the Central North Atlantic with a WSW flow over the UK. Troughs in the flow will continue to bring rain at times and it will fall as snow for a time over Northern hills. In the South it looks somewhat milder later.


GEM shows a continuing flow of Low pressure moving West to East across Britain from a weeks time though with less explosive force as recently. There would be spells of rain and showers for all but it should be less windy than recently.


NAVGEM closes it's run with Low pressure still well in control with centres close to or over the UK with plenty of wind and rain for many areas under temperatures close to average.


ECM keeps the unsettled and changeable theme going later in it's run though the charts look far less stormy than recently. Nevertheless there will be troughs crossing East in the Westerly flow with rain or showers at times in temperatures never far from average though it may turn rather cold towards the end of the run in a more NW flow.


The GFS Ensembles show that the weather remains changeable for the next 10 days. There is some support between it's own members of a cool off at the end of the run when it would become rather less wet though the operational is at the extreme end of this scenario.


The Jet Stream shows the flow remaining close to or just to the South of the UK tonight keeping the UK under a trough throughout the run meaning Low pressure close by. Evidence of a build of pressure in the Atlantic is shown towards the end of Week 2.


In Summary tonight the weather stays on an unsettled track for a good while to come. After a relatively quiet and showery Christmas another powerful storm looks likely later this week and the weekend before less stormy conditions are trended thereafter. Nevertheless there seems little evidence of any settled conditions with further rain expected off and on throughout the next few weeks with the saturated ground having little chance to recover. GFS does show some signs of a pattern change late in it's outputs supported by some of it's own ensemble members. However, I feel that we need such a trend developed on over the coming days and given more cross model support once such a change comes within all models time range.


A Very Merry Christmas to you all.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
White Meadows
24 December 2013 19:46:24
Jokes aside- Can anyone post a link supporting the lack of data theory?
Rob K
24 December 2013 19:46:44
GFS 12z is a prime example of what I said earlier about deep lows out of Canada propping up blocking. Eminently plausible! 😉
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Tom Oxon
24 December 2013 20:54:45
There were some signs of height rises a short while ago, however:

The latest ECM data at T240 from 23 December suggests 30hPA tempatures to be rock bottom:

http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/ecmwf30f240.gif 

Vortex west of where it needs to be for cold. Stormy first half of January IMO but I still expect a more blocked feature for the end of January and into Feb/March.

-T/O

S Warwickshire countryside, c.375ft asl.
nickl
24 December 2013 22:02:31

There were some signs of height rises a short while ago, however:

The latest ECM data at T240 from 23 December suggests 30hPA tempatures to be rock bottom:

http://users.met.fu-berlin.de/~Aktuell/strat-www/wdiag/figs/ecmwf1/ecmwf30f240.gif

Vortex west of where it needs to be for cold. Stormy first half of January IMO but I still expect a more blocked feature for the end of January and into Feb/March.

-T/O

Originally Posted by: Tom Oxon 


only issue i have with the day 10 output is that it is derived solely from the op run so is unreliable in the lower reaches of the strat. the chart you link to is in the middle strat and therefore likely to be close to verifying. i see no issue with that chart allowing a nw/se axis jet taking low heights into the continent with a mid atlantic ridge, which waxes and wanes.  how close the uk can get to be the polar side of the jet is the question and currently, i'd say it looks pretty reasonable for a fair chunk of us as we head through the latter part of week 2.

dagspot
24 December 2013 23:43:10
I like Davids little Mr Humphries avatar. Hope you're "being served" in here. My inside leg is a 32
Merry Christmas !
Neilston 600ft ASL
Gooner
25 December 2013 00:12:22

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-324.png?18


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-384.png?18


Control keeps us on the cold side


Merry Xmas all


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Hungry Tiger
25 December 2013 00:13:51

Better chance of a night with Cheryl Cole than a cold spell with this lot.



http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Karl Guille
25 December 2013 00:14:34


Merry Christmas Marcus!

St. Sampson
Guernsey
Gandalf The White
25 December 2013 01:18:44


Better chance of a night with Cheryl Cole than a cold spell with this lot.



http://www.jp2webdesign.co.uk/ds/gfs.htm


Originally Posted by: Hungry Tiger 



Happy Christmas to you - and everyone on TWO


 


The ECM 12z ensemble mean continues to trend colder into the New Year:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html


I would have said there were grounds there for cautious optimism.


 



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Retron
25 December 2013 05:47:13

There are a couple of bits of interest in the latest ECM ensemble output:

* The 15-day control run shows low after low, as in previous runs, but this time by the end they're tracking over England and Wales as pressure builds to the NW. At the same time the Siberian High ridges westwards over Scandinavia.
* The 32-day control run shows a similar evolution and after day 15 the highs link, forcing the next low even further south and drawing easterlies over the UK for a day or two, followed by northerlies for another day or two. After that the block collapses and we return to SW'lies and a very deep low to the NW.

What's of note is the way both the 15-day and 32-day control runs show a break in the zonal dross and both show an opportunity for something colder to appear, albeit briefly in the 32-day run's case.


Merry Christmas btw - hope everyone has a good one!


Leysdown, north Kent
Gooner
25 December 2013 06:36:58



Merry Christmas Marcus!

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


And to you Karl


Very quiet in the Berry household , Im up drinking tea and all the kids are zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Have a good one everyone


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


wallaw
25 December 2013 06:39:33
Merry Christmas all, hope you all have a good one
Ian


Stockton-on-Tees

Whether Idle
25 December 2013 07:28:33
Merry Christmas fellow model watchers and TWOers


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
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