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Gandalf The White
27 December 2013 21:40:03



I got caught out with this link the other day GTW...it's a link to a page full of charts. Scroll down to see the one I think Gavin means?

Originally Posted by: Jive Buddy 


Thanks, I didn't realise it was a whole set of charts.


Nailed on cold easterly then, just need to wait 2 weeks for it to arrive!



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
27 December 2013 21:42:56




Still a disappointing 10 day mean from ECM tonight and what's more concerning is there is little movement away from the very wet spell of recent times.


ECM 10 Day Mean Chart


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


Martin, that is quite a bit different to yesterday's ensemble mean chart - the core of the low pressure is now between Iceland and Scotland.  If my memory is correct yesterday's showed the core of the low pressure over Newfoundland with an extended trough eastwards towards Scotland.  It may revert tomorrow but if the trend continues we could have the low pressure to our north and eventually a Scandi trough?


In the meantime, as you say, it looks to remain very unsettled.


 


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Given the long lange and the likely spread of sceanrios then I would suggest it's as much use as the average of the telephone numbers in the phone book.


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


Maybe not if you use the spread charts as well to see where the areas of uncertainty sit.


On today's run the answer is that the largest uncertainties are in an area from the eastern USA through Newfoundland,eastwards through the Atlantic into western Europe and Scandi:


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2013122712/EEH1-240.GIF?27-0


Which means quite a lot of uncertainty for us at the 10 day range.


 


 


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


colin46
27 December 2013 22:04:08
One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!
shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
nickl
27 December 2013 22:07:18



Still a disappointing 10 day mean from ECM tonight and what's more concerning is there is little movement away from the very wet spell of recent times.


ECM 10 Day Mean Chart


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 


Martin, that is quite a bit different to yesterday's ensemble mean chart - the core of the low pressure is now between Iceland and Scotland.  If my memory is correct yesterday's showed the core of the low pressure over Newfoundland with an extended trough eastwards towards Scotland.  It may revert tomorrow but if the trend continues we could have the low pressure to our north and eventually a Scandi trough?


In the meantime, as you say, it looks to remain very unsettled.


 


Originally Posted by: GIBBY 


correct call gandalf. whether you can extrapolate that to a scandi trough, given the blocking to our ne is quite a step !! i'm afraid i think it has our name on it - slap bang across us although given the low dams, that in itself could be notable in places.

llamedos
27 December 2013 22:32:05

One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: colin46 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Sevendust
27 December 2013 22:43:19


One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: colin46 


That old chestnut


As James said earlier, it is still December and many winters don't have cold Decembers, in fact  cold spells are more likely towards late winter as the Atlantic eases its grip

Quantum
27 December 2013 22:47:45

The heights do seem to be rising in general by 192 which is consistant with a slightly weaker PV. No angry purples and blacks in canada by then. The depressions also seem to be getting weaker and perhaps more eliptical (major axis west to east). So things may be getting gradually better for the chance of a cold spell; however the unsettled and mobile nature of the weather will be most prominent over the next couple of weeks I imagine. Still, by 384 we have blocking in E canada and some much needed WAA. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
llamedos
27 December 2013 22:47:50



One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: Sevendust 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


That old chestnut


As James said earlier, it is still December and many winters don't have cold Decembers, in fact  cold spells are more likely towards late winter as the Atlantic eases its grip


Originally Posted by: colin46 

Pretty much what I was saying Dave......not unusual to have a cold March   


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Gandalf The White
27 December 2013 22:50:01

One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old

Originally Posted by: colin46 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bang on cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
27 December 2013 22:51:05



One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


That old chestnut


As James said earlier, it is still December and many winters don't have cold Decembers, in fact  cold spells are more likely towards late winter as the Atlantic eases its grip


Originally Posted by: llamedos 

Pretty much what I was saying Dave......not unusual to have a cold March   

Originally Posted by: colin46 



Ah, you mean a cold start to spring?

;-)
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


llamedos
27 December 2013 22:53:22


One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: llamedos 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bangor cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)

Originally Posted by: colin46 

 ..........The gospel according to GTW


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Quantum
27 December 2013 22:58:19




One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


That old chestnut


As James said earlier, it is still December and many winters don't have cold Decembers, in fact  cold spells are more likely towards late winter as the Atlantic eases its grip


Originally Posted by: llamedos 

Pretty much what I was saying Dave......not unusual to have a cold March   


Originally Posted by: colin46 


Yes but we all know that by the time we get to early march, the only people that will want it to be cold will be me and Gooner. Even Gooner hands in the towel by early april. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Gandalf The White
27 December 2013 23:01:50


One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bangor cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

 ..........The gospel according to GTW

Originally Posted by: colin46 



Nah, just the Met Office.

I think that's game set and match...... 🙂
Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


llamedos
27 December 2013 23:07:30





One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: Quantum 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


That old chestnut


As James said earlier, it is still December and many winters don't have cold Decembers, in fact  cold spells are more likely towards late winter as the Atlantic eases its grip


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 

Pretty much what I was saying Dave......not unusual to have a cold March   


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Yes but we all know that by the time we get to early march, the only people that will want it to be cold will be me and Gooner. Even Gooner hands in the towel by early april. 


Originally Posted by: colin46 

What you want and what you get can be worlds apart.......FWIW the Meteorological calendar, by the Met Offices own admission, just keeps things nice and tidy http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/learn-about-the-weather/how-weather-works/when-does-winter-start 


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Gooner
27 December 2013 23:21:49

18z temps IMBY


6c 5c 9c 9c 7c 8c 5c 8c 6c 3c 4c 7c 5c 4c 2c 3c


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


llamedos
27 December 2013 23:22:01



One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: llamedos 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bangor cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)

Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 

 ..........The gospel according to GTW


Originally Posted by: llamedos 



Nah, just the Met Office.

I think that's game set and match...... :-)

Originally Posted by: colin46 

Read my post in response to Quantum ......I rather think that's advantage point to me


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Gooner
27 December 2013 23:25:19




One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bangor cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

 ..........The gospel according to GTW


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Nah, just the Met Office.

I think that's game set and match...... :-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

Read my post in response to Quantum ......I rather think that's advantage point to me


Originally Posted by: colin46 


Winter has just started then


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
27 December 2013 23:30:34
All eyes on the GFS, backed up by the ECMWF and the UKMO their all staying Positive NAO Areas of PV Low Pressure bands of Strong winds and heavy rains- Temperatures shall stay above the late Dec. and Early Jan. Averages more particularly by night as it will be a largely wet and Overcast Unsettled Pattern- this looks like lasting upto 6 days given the major models agreed- and a few days later it might turn Colder around 9-11 Jan. with NNW winds as the main PV locates to over UK.

I hope all who are doing well to have a good New Year Celebration. London New Year Day / Eve Fireworks look very soggy wind and a bit chilly by that day.

Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
NickR
  • NickR
  • Advanced Member Topic Starter
27 December 2013 23:55:56




One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bangor cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

 ..........The gospel according to GTW


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Nah, just the Met Office.

I think that's game set and match...... :-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

Read my post in response to Quantum ......I rather think that's advantage point to me


Originally Posted by: colin46 


For a meteorological site discussing meteorology, only the meteorological winter matters and counts IMO. 


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Gandalf The White
28 December 2013 00:16:13




One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

That would be Meteorological winter rather than astronomical winter......for the latter, winter is just a mere 5 days old


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Oh look, a hardy perennial popping its head up again, Bangor cue.....

The winter solstice isn't the start of winter. End of......

:-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

 ..........The gospel according to GTW


Originally Posted by: Gandalf The White 



Nah, just the Met Office.

I think that's game set and match...... :-)

Originally Posted by: llamedos 

Read my post in response to Quantum ......I rather think that's advantage point to me


Originally Posted by: colin46 


As this is the Weather Forum and not the Astronomy Forum I think your advantage point has been overturned on appeal....



Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


Gandalf The White
28 December 2013 00:20:40

The ECM 12z ensemble for London:


http://www.weathercast.co.uk/services/ensemble-forecast.html


Still a lot of scatter beyond 7 but the two main groupings are for cool (highs 6-7C) or cold (highs 3C) conditions from around Day 8.


Location: South Cambridgeshire
130 metres ASL
52.0N 0.1E


glenogle
28 December 2013 02:16:32

One third of winter over and still I haven't been able to lamppost watch!

Originally Posted by: colin46 


If it is a neccessity i could point my webcam at the lamp post outside my house next time it snows up here. (but your more likely to see rain at present)


To me, the pressure is increasing from the east or the eastward movement of the lows is slowing, one of the two.  This is happening less than 48hrs out and imo, is a sign of the changes taking place elsewhere. The progression is slowing or high to the east is awakening.  Subttle but big change for down the line imo.


This low was yesterday modeled to be sitting slap bang over us for the next week.  Now its out a few hundred miles further west.  Will make a fair difference to our weather.


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/charts/gfs/18_87_mslp500.png?cb=819


UserPostedImage LLTNP 105m asl 
GIBBY
28 December 2013 07:50:30

Good morning everyone. Here is my interpretation of how I see events unfolding as we enter the first weeks of 2014 seen through the eyes of the midnight outputs of the NWP for Saturday December 29th 2013.


All models show a steadily weakening SW to West airflow with showers as pressure rises over the next 24 hours. A ridge of High pressure crosses East early tomorrow with an active frontal system moving quickly in from the Atlantic later tomorrow with increasing SW winds and heavy rain sweeping East across all areas late tomorrow and overnight. Over Monday showery weather returns behind a cold front before more rain on Tuesday and later on New Years Day maintain the very wet conditions with renewed floods likely as we move into the New Year in association with deep Low pressure areas close to or over the UK in temperatures close to average.


GFS takes us through the start of 2014 with a seemingly incessant barrage of Low pressure after Low pressure streaming in on a strong Jet flow and delivering spell after spell of heavy rain and strong winds with only brief drier weather in between, these most likely later when transient ridges of High pressure cross over briefly ahead of the next system.


UKMO today show Low pressure covering all of the Atlantic Ocean North of the Azores with strong SW to West winds and series of troughs crossing quickly East or NE in the flow. Areas of rain and showers will be heavy at times with strong winds too making for an unpleasant and wet start to 2014.


GEM also shows a sustained and prolonged wet period with Low pressure permanently present over or just to the North of Britain with fronts bringing spells of rain and showers repeatedly East in the strong flow throughout the runs later stages.


NAVGEM also shows no remorse with with spells of heavy rain too occurring in very strong WSW winds and temperatures close to average.


ECM today also paints a worrying picture for those looking for relief from recent floods as it indicates a very unsettled phase with frequent bouts of gales and heavy rains as trough after trough crosses East over the UK in strong to gale Westerly winds and temperatures largely near to normal.


The GFS Ensembles indicate the Atlantic remains in top gear as it continues to pummel the UK with Low pressure after Low pressure with rain and strong winds at times from all members with temperatures close to the long term mean.


The Jet Stream continues to blow very strongly out of the States and across the Atlantic towards Southern Britain for the next week or so. If anything it then slips very slightly South across France as the UK remains under a broad and deep Atlantic trough.


In Summary today if anything the resolve towards wet and windy conditions persisting has strengthened overnight. All models indicate some very worrying synoptics for those that are looking for relief from recent floods as next week looks thoroughly wet and stormy at times with strong winds reaching severe gale force in places. In Week 2 small changes to the far NE in the Arctic only serve to pull depressions even further down over the UK from GFS and landing us under a deep trough with further wet and sometimes stormy conditions through Week 2 as well. All other models just continue the incessant feed of wind and rain East across Britain too 10 days from now. We really do need a break from this pattern soon as flooding issues are going to become unprecedented if some of this morning's output verify..lets hope for some moderation in the theme soon.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Gusty
28 December 2013 08:03:55

Thanks Martin.


A good summary. Increasing heights to our north are indeed starting to pull the jet further southwards on a collision course over the UK.


We have been comparatively dry here compared to other areas further west in southern England but even here 350mm of rain has fallen in the last 12 week.


If some proper cold is to develop in January it would appear to be at the expense of another prolonged spell of numerous and potentially very disruptive flooding events. 


We really don't need this.


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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