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Gooner
30 December 2013 17:56:08

12z ENS show much more interest


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


marting
30 December 2013 18:06:37
Yes definitely something going on with the ensembles tonight. Will see if the trend continues and operational shows us any decent examples.
Martin
Martin
Greasby, Wirral.
Rob K
30 December 2013 18:09:29
A couple of proper cold runs appearing on the ensembles. And even the Op run is far from mild zonality:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3003.png 

Would certainly be a wintry flavour to some of the precipitation there, given a bit of height.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Ally Pally Snowman
30 December 2013 18:15:47

12z ENS show much more interest

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Yes the coldest set for ages. Maybe the SW taking effect who knows. Good to see though.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png 

Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
roger63
30 December 2013 18:18:56

Yes definitely something going on with the ensembles tonight. Will see if the trend continues and operational shows us any decent examples.
Martin

Originally Posted by: marting 


 


Agree we need to see if there is trend developing Currently as far out as 360h  80% of ENS on GFS 12h are still zonal.4 members only have cold flow 2,9,14,18 have cold easterly.When the majority of ENS are cold then we can take the possibility of a pattern change  more seriously.

Rob K
30 December 2013 18:27:05


12z ENS show much more interest


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Yes the coldest set for ages. Maybe the SW taking effect who knows. Good to see though.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Meanwhile the period from Jan 3 - 7 is looking very soggy.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
some faraway beach
30 December 2013 18:37:52


12z ENS show much more interest


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



Yes the coldest set for ages. Maybe the SW taking effect who knows. Good to see though.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Or just the result of our westerly weather systems now following a largely cooler-than-average path over the Atlantic?


http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gif


Remember even those yellows around the British Isles are within 0.5C of the average. Most of the journey from Canada is crossing water that has been cooled right down by recent storms.


As Rob K pointed out, the result is some pretty cold zonal charts, with the 528 dam line over Bordeaux.


2 miles west of Taunton, 32 m asl, where "milder air moving in from the west" becomes SNOWMAGEDDON.
Well, two or three times a decade it does, anyway.
Gooner
30 December 2013 18:49:27



12z ENS show much more interest


Originally Posted by: some faraway beach 



Yes the coldest set for ages. Maybe the SW taking effect who knows. Good to see though.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Or just the result of our westerly weather systems now following a largely cooler-than-average path over the Atlantic?


http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gif


Remember even those yellows around the British Isles are within 0.5C of the average. Most of the journey from Canada is crossing water that has been cooled right down by recent storms.


As Rob K pointed out, the result is some pretty cold zonal charts, with the 528 dam line over Bordeaux.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Or maybe some with Easterly flows perhaps


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Hungry Tiger
30 December 2013 18:49:52

A couple of proper cold runs appearing on the ensembles. And even the Op run is far from mild zonality:

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn3003.png

Would certainly be a wintry flavour to some of the precipitation there, given a bit of height.


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Those are very cold westerlies - shades of January 1984 there.


Note the 528 dam air line is past us there.


 


Gavin S. FRmetS.
TWO Moderator.
Contact the TWO team - [email protected]
South Cambridgeshire. 93 metres or 302.25 feet ASL.


Quantum
30 December 2013 18:57:00



The warming on the GFS would still be classified as a minor event, not a major as the 10hpa winds are still westerly. So this needs to be beared in mind. 


Originally Posted by: ITSY 


Thats true, and although I'm no expert in the least, I wonder how much more pressure the strat could take before the mean wind flipped over. (and also, where can we find the 10hpa wind forecast)?


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I've tried my best to generate them. I'm still a real n00b at this, so they might not be right. The one on the left is +0h and the one on the right is +384h, these are the strat winds (I think)



But note the colour schemes are not the same. negative numbers represent easterly winds. And the numbers are still positive in the arctic at 384.


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
bledur
30 December 2013 18:57:26

Some colder weather appearing in the CFS for the first time in a while


 


 huh? cfs was showing colder weather  around mid jan a  week ago.

LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
30 December 2013 19:09:20
The GFS and ECMWF 10hPa Strat Pressure and Temp Forecast Does Split to Some Exten the Polar Vortex, and Canada USA - Norway NE Europe and particularly N and NW Russia NW Siberia comes under direct effect of the Polar vortex but it Wanes and Waxes reduce and then Re join as one Strong Arctic to those locations Polar Stratospheric Vortex, and it remains fairly cold At wide Central area that spreads out and reduces as it moves farther South.

High Pressure and the Higher Temps most largest in Siberia and N to E NE Asia and also near WSW USA and form mid part and later from there in Canada SE S and Mid US to E NE USA to SW Greenland -towards there, especially later, The Mid North Atlantic warms to less extent and it appears like a mid Lat High in Stratosphere.

The Narrowing Cold Stratospheric vortex, still is spread out N W and the E across Northen Hemisphere across the main Continens and it does bend as well which means on the Outer parts of the cold and near the lifted temperatures and the High Pressures High winds likely mean the winds low down and low Presssure lower down at the Troposphere level is still quite West to East with some NW and NE wind and pressure waves moving down at the Low PV vortex Low pressure Systems, I have seen the ECMWF and the GFS NCEP NOAA and GFS Strat. meteociel North hem Maps as well.

The Asia Siberia Warming as well as the USA Cemtral SW and North to NE Strat Temp up and downs and Control and extent in those areas of that Arctic Polar vortex still likely brings limited Contrasts of Weather - but Central and North to NW and the NE USA looks like getting the most benefit from this effect.

It might affect Europe but to me we need it to build pressure and lift the temp up Europe West NW side or NE side as well as more of it for North and nE Atlantic so that some Cold Northerly or NW winds or NE winds are able to play a part - this might happen after the next passage of the. Atlantic PV Vortex crosses us, but you never know out in NE USA and West N Altantic crop up further Zonal PV Low for 2nd Week of Jan and towards the 2nd weekend for the month!!
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
GIBBY
30 December 2013 19:15:12

Good evening folks. Here is tonight's report on the 12 noon outputs of the NWP for today Monday December 30th 2013.


All models show the weather fine for a time tonight as a lull passes East over the UK. Another squally trough feature then moves East over Britain after midnight clearing tomorrow morning to a day of sunshine and squally heavy showers. On New Years Day the weather remains very unsettled with a new Low spinning NE up the Western flank of the UK with renewed gales and heavy rain followed by showers late in the day. The unsettled and windy theme is then shown to continue in one shape or another from all models up to the end of the weekend.


GFS then shows the second half of the run with little respite with further Low pressure areas marching in from the West close to Northern Scotland sending rain bearing troughs East across the UK with further severe gales in places and temperatures close to average throughout.


UKMO closes the run next Sunday showing Low pressure to the West of Ireland with a strong SW flow across the UK with heavy rain and gales continuing to batter the UK on occasion with showers and sunny intervals in between.


GEM tonight shows stormy conditions to start next week before a colder interlude develops with wintry showers as pressure rises from the South with a dry and brighter spell for most in 10 days time, though it doesn't look likely to last long.


NAVGEM closes it's run with deep low pressure to the north of the UK with strong WSW winds carrying further rain and shower bands East across the UK in average temperatures.


ECM too shows the chance of something rather colder setting up as we move towards the end of next week as Low pressure slows down and fills over the UK as High pressure ridges through the Atlantic, setting up a cell of High pressure just to the North and with lower pressure over Southern Europe there is a chance that the end of tonight's ECM could be the break that many cold fans were looking for.


The GFS Ensembles do show some signs of change later in the output as a few members drop into the abyss with regard to cold while others take a more modest approach towards cold late in the run. the net result is another week to 10 days of wet and wild weather before things may turn rather colder and drier.


The Jet Stream shows the flow as before through the next week to 10 days with the increased tendency for it to buckle later as the speed of flow of Atlantic Lows is slowed.


In Summary tonight I am pleased to say that there does seem to be some light at the end of the recent very long tunnel. There is a lot of wind and rain to get through during the next 10 days but there are tonight better signals for a pattern change later next week as the chance of something rather colder and drier is indicated from more than one source.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Phil G
30 December 2013 19:17:20
Thought this chart showed a bit of potential and a slight change on recent weeks
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif 
Ally Pally Snowman
30 December 2013 19:26:30

Thought this chart showed a bit of potential and a slight change on recent weeks
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2402.gif 

Originally Posted by: Phil G 




Yes looks like an easterly would set up there and a very cold one at that. Some glimmers of hope form the models tonight.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Quantum
30 December 2013 19:51:26

 


Okay I think I have it this time. For it to be a major Strat warming



we would need blue over the arctic, not pink. Blues are easterly winds, reds and yellows are westerlies. The blue core is moving north by 384h.


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
nickl
30 December 2013 20:05:56
I believe that we may soon get a new definition of an SSW following a meeting of a group in the near future. until that happens, pedantically until zonal winds reverse at 60N at 10hpa, it aint a SSW.

and pedantically again, the gfs 12z op did not split the strat vortex as the 06z did. However, it would probably have happened soon after that run ended. (Meteociel only shows the strat temps - you need to view instant weather maps strat data to see the strat heights)

back to trop modelling and ecm op close to a cluster of gefs members at day 10 with the extended atlantic ridge and hanging trough below.
Quantum
30 December 2013 20:10:01

This one is better



Sorry people, getting a little overexcited with GRADS


 


 


What I'm looking for is a complete wind reversal at the pole at the 10hpa level. All that is happening here is the PV is getting displaced hence a minor SSW event. Incidently sorry for stuffing up the last map :S.


 


Just to clarify so I don't get blamed for this , I made the images with my new toy openGRADS. Thanks brian for your help again.


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Whether Idle
30 December 2013 20:10:17


GFS shows a very wet week is in store. 2 inches plus widely over much of the south and extensively in the west.  With W or SW winds dominant, the rain shadow effects are evident, particularly so around Inverness.  Even more so around Merseyside compared with west Wales.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Matty H
30 December 2013 20:12:21
Another reminder. Links only, not charts.

Ta.
Quantum
30 December 2013 20:14:45

Another reminder. Links only, not charts.

Ta.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Can mine be an exception 😛 I couldn't find 10hpa wind anywhere online and since I generated them myself there won't be copyright issues.


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Matty H
30 December 2013 20:16:45

Another reminder. Links only, not charts.

Ta.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Can mine be an exception 😛 I couldn't find 10hpa wind anywhere online and since I generated them myself there won't be copyright issues.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 



No
Quantum
30 December 2013 20:20:27


Another reminder. Links only, not charts.

Ta.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Can mine be an exception 😛 I couldn't find 10hpa wind anywhere online and since I generated them myself there won't be copyright issues.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 



No

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Actually it doesn't matter, I can link to tinypic directly.


http://oi42.tinypic.com/73cily.jpg


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
carla
30 December 2013 20:23:00
What is the 528 dam line? Please
Holton le clay lincolnshire
White Meadows
30 December 2013 20:25:09
528 dam or lower represents thickness levels making it possible for snow to occur (in a nutshell).
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