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Ally Pally Snowman
06 January 2014 18:58:14
JMA also joins the party!


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=192&mode=1 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Gooner
06 January 2014 19:02:32

JMA also joins the party!


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

">http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma.php?ech=192&mode=1


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2014010612/JN192-7.GIF?06-12


realy cold not far away either


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
06 January 2014 19:11:08

The most important thing here for a snow event is not the 850 temps but the strength of the front. 


The more well defined the frontal system, the more likely all precipatation will be snow. In a weaker (kata) system, warm air tends to mix into the frontal zone turning precipatation to rain. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
sriram
06 January 2014 19:15:53

Nearly a very snowy chart. Some good output tonight

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2162.html


 


yes - hope it comes in the reliable timeframe though - that is 24-48 hrs


 


Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Whether Idle
06 January 2014 19:24:27


Nearly a very snowy chart. Some good output tonight

Originally Posted by: sriram 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2162.html

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


 


yes - hope it comes in the reliable timeframe though - that is 24-48 hrs


 



Limited hope offered for cold weather fans this evening.  These glimpses at cold represent the best the season has had to offer the casual model watcher.  The ECM sensembles will be of interest.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
JoeShmoe99
06 January 2014 19:33:01

Looks like quite a big model divergence after T+120, clearly what happens in N America and the jet will have a big influence

Gusty
06 January 2014 19:38:08



Nearly a very snowy chart. Some good output tonight

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 

">http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2162.html

Originally Posted by: sriram 


 


yes - hope it comes in the reliable timeframe though - that is 24-48 hrs


 


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Limited hope offered for cold weather fans this evening.  These glimpses at cold represent the best the season has had to offer the casual model watcher.  The ECM sensembles will be of interest.



I concur 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Essan
06 January 2014 19:38:15

Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Gooner
06 January 2014 19:44:24


Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Bloody well does this year matey


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


cowman
06 January 2014 19:47:41
😂 😂


Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Bloody well does this year matey

Originally Posted by: Essan 



😂 😂 😂
Quantum
06 January 2014 19:50:32



Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Essan 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
06 January 2014 19:53:59


When two tribes go to war.....


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014010612/ECM1-216.GIF?06-0


lets hope the battle lines end up a bit further west


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Why? That would only be good for N ireland and SW england. As it is exactly, we have heavy snow for most of central and northern england and scotland. Hopefully though the atlantic will loose, unlike it did in this particular run. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
White Meadows
06 January 2014 20:01:17
Just read the MetO extended outlook up until early Feb. First real encouragement for proper cold IMO.
I would expect the models to start getting really interesting for coldies in the coming days/weeks.

...oh and Gfs is useless in these situations. When it can't handle changes in default zonality it freaks out like a premature daffodil in Melton Mowbray.
Essan
06 January 2014 20:06:58




Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Originally Posted by: Essan 



With air temps and Dps ~8c it looks like rain to me   Except perhaps in the Highlands.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21617.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21610.png

(I know those charts are GFS and not ECM, but there's not a lot of difference between the two models and experience says the milder solution is always most likely, especially when the preceding weather has been mild)


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
superteacher
06 January 2014 20:11:41
Good grief. This has been the most difficult period of model watching that I can remember in a long time. At least there are some colder options being shown in the models now - for ages, there seemed to be nothing whatsoever.

So it may be straw clutching. But at least we now have some straws to clutch at. For most of December, there were few, if any.
Zubzero
06 January 2014 20:15:18





Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Originally Posted by: Gooner 



With air temps and Dps ~8c it looks like rain to me   Except perhaps in the Highlands.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21617.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21610.png

(I know those charts are GFS and not ECM, but there's not a lot of difference between the two models and experience says the milder solution is always most likely, especially when the preceding weather has been mild)


Originally Posted by: Essan 


GFS is nothing like the ECM at the same time frame 


Pointless debating if it will be rain/snow that far away anyway, hard to know 24 hours away let alone 216

Whether Idle
06 January 2014 20:16:39





Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Originally Posted by: Gooner 



With air temps and Dps ~8c it looks like rain to me   Except perhaps in the Highlands.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21617.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21610.png

(I know those charts are GFS and not ECM, but there's not a lot of difference between the two models and experience says the milder solution is always most likely, especially when the preceding weather has been mild)


Originally Posted by: Essan 


You will probably be correct, and I cannot fault your logic.  I will cast an eye over the ECM ensembles though.  It is most likely a close but no cigar scenario.  The GEM and JMA both side with ECM but its as good as a mile off as in these circumstances FI is pretty close and charts at the 168+ range will fluctuate wildly.


Dover, 5m asl. Half a mile from the south coast.
Ally Pally Snowman
06 January 2014 20:22:47





Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Essan 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Originally Posted by: Quantum 



With air temps and Dps ~8c it looks like rain to me   Except perhaps in the Highlands.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21617.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21610.png

(I know those charts are GFS and not ECM, but there's not a lot of difference between the two models and experience says the milder solution is always most likely, especially when the preceding weather has been mild)


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


You will probably be correct, and I cannot fault your logic.  I will cast an eye over the ECM ensembles though.  It is most likely a close but no cigar scenario.  The GEM and JMA both side with ECM but its as good as a mile off as in these circumstances FI is pretty close and charts at the 168+ range will fluctuate wildly.


Originally Posted by: Essan 



It's a very dynamic situation and no model has a handle on it yet. It could still stay zonal and mild or we could be on the verge of a cold snowy spell. But I think we have taken a step to the cold and snowy camp to tonight.




Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Ally Pally Snowman
06 January 2014 20:30:30
ECM mean looks very good tonight a massive step forward.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1921.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Quantum
06 January 2014 20:33:44





Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Originally Posted by: Gooner 



With air temps and Dps ~8c it looks like rain to me   Except perhaps in the Highlands.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21617.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21610.png

(I know those charts are GFS and not ECM, but there's not a lot of difference between the two models and experience says the milder solution is always most likely, especially when the preceding weather has been mild)


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Yes but its also true it doesn't take alot to turn rain to snow. But yes that GFS chart is definately rain, wheras the ECM one is definately snow. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
doctormog
06 January 2014 20:35:00




Looks like a lot of clutching at damp straws to me.  A day of colder rain doeth not a winter maketh 

I think the latest MetO 30 dayer offers more hope than anything in the models - albeit not till next month.


Originally Posted by: Essan 


Bloody well does this year matey


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


That 216 chart is not rain....



Originally Posted by: Gooner 



With air temps and Dps ~8c it looks like rain to me   Except perhaps in the Highlands.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21617.png

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn21610.png

(I know those charts are GFS and not ECM, but there's not a lot of difference between the two models and experience says the milder solution is always most likely, especially when the preceding weather has been mild)

Originally Posted by: Essan 



It is all hypothetical but there is actually a large difference between the GFS and ECM at 216hrs. The former would indeed bring rain but in the latter it would be snow for many.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif 

Who knows which (if either) evolution tomorrow will show but some form of change looks likely in the coming days and that change at least increases the possibility of more wintry weather. Whether we actually get any is another matter entirely!
GIBBY
06 January 2014 20:39:36

Good evening. Here is the report on the midday outputs from the NWP for today Monday January 6th 2014.


All models show a deep depression to the NW of the UK filling slowly over the next 48 hours as it moves slowly NE ending up to the North of Scotland by this time on Wednesday. In addition frontal rain will flirt with the South at times over the next 48 hours enhancing the flooding risk even further in the South. However, strong winds will become less of an issue with time with only moderate Westerly breezes by Thursday with some further rain running West to East across the UK. By the end of the week pressure will of risen strongly to the SE of the UK with drier and quieter weather likely for all for a time.


GFS through the weekend shows quiet and fine weather for many before the unsettled weather returns from the West early next week with rain bearing fronts crossing the UK from the West in what would be if verified another round of deep depressions, intensely so at the end of the run with strong to gale winds again and heavy rain and flooding issues likely again.


The GFS Ensembles look very unsettled and changeable again tonight with rain at times with strong winds too and little likelihood of much in the way of drier weather after the breather of later this week.


UKMO for next Sunday shows High pressure declining away SE early next week as troughs of Low pressure move in from the Atlantic with further unwanted rainfall following the drier interlude early in the weekend.


GEM shows an interesting period from next weekend as it's operational shows Low pressure moving in late next weekend with further rain before the whole system slides SE allowing pressure to rise strongly to the NW of Britain. This would enable winds to swing NE and Low pressure to reside near the Meditteranean with the cold wind giving rise to some wintry weather with snow in places in 10 days time.


NAVGEM declines High pressure away SE too after the weekend as Low pressure to the NW sends troughs back NE over the UK next week with renewed rain, this time probably heaviest towards more NW areas rather than places further South and east.


ECM tonight shows Saturday as the best day of this week when it should be dry and fine under a transient ridge of High pressure. It isn't long before Low pressure troughs swing back in from the West before sliding SE and giving rise to plenty of rain again in the process. then towards the end of the run a new Low over the Western Atlantic send another active trough slowly East across the UK hitting a High pressure block slowly declining across Europe.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts show strong signals for the majority of members of the ECM pack to favour a blocking High over Scandinavia at this time point with the UK lying in a SSE flow with Lower pressure troughs close to the West. If this majority verifies then we can look forward to some colder and drier weather but if the fronts to the West come in too close then we could all end up with a lot of cold rain and perhaps some snow.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The GFS Jet Stream Forecast tonight shows the current flow imploding in a few days time before becoming diffuse and unclear with regard to favoured position before the pattern resets with an incredibly powerful surge of flow shown racing over the Atlantic towards the UK late in the run.


In Summary tonight the pattern is taking a backwards step towards maintaining rather unsettled weather moving into next week and beyond. The Atlantic is shown to weaken considerably later this week with at least a window of drier weather likely towards the weekend before it looks increasingly possible for wet and windy weather to return later though hopefully not to the extremes of recently. There is still a nugget of hope for cold lovers though as both GEM and ECM go for some trough disruption next week meaning an awful lot of cold rain for many as Low pressure slides SE and opens the door to something rather colder behind it ala GEM. However, despite the principal being the same from ECM the Atlantic proves too strong from this run to set up cold Easterlies as the next Low pushes troughs back in from the West on Day 10.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Quantum
06 January 2014 20:51:12

wrg to the difference between GFS and ECM



Copyright meteociel.com used here in accordance with fair use laws UK. 


This is at 216 and ive attempted to draw the fronts on. Note this is using the shapiro keyser model, rather than the norwegen model which is why the frontal system looks different to what is typically seen, the warm occlusion and warm front are considered to be the same. The first one, ECM has snow falling to the east of the warm front including E anglia, yorkshire, N england and most of scotland. In SW england heavy rain showers or thunderstorms on the cold front. Contrast the more developed GFS version, warm front fully passed through, and cold front running more or less perpendicular indicating more matured depression which is why less opportunity for snow. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Karl Guille
06 January 2014 20:54:59

ECM mean looks very good tonight a massive step forward.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem1921.html 

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.html 

Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 



But where does it sit in the ensembles I wonder after the 00z Op was one of the coldest of the bunch! 😉

St. Sampson
Guernsey
roger63
06 January 2014 20:58:16

Step by step.


GFS op,JMA,ECM all attempt to build HP to our NE/E.in the period 120h-192h.(GEM fails but then has another go by240H) Maybe we will be able to add METO to the list tomorrow


That gives us something to focus on for Sunday onwards.


So step 1 is does HP form around Scadinavia Europe?(no SSW to help I presume)


Currently even if HP forms the further out models suggest Atlantic pushing HP out of the way.So we may have an Atalntic?HP battle later next week!

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