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GIBBY
14 January 2014 08:26:12

Another dramatic switch by the ECM this morning (the latest in a growing list this winter), as it too powers through the Atlantic in FI today. The ECM really is the "willing fool's" model of choice this winter. Though it must be said all output at that range needs to be handled with care.

Originally Posted by: Whether Idle 


In fairness to ECM the mean charts last night did not in any way support the operational's handle on events so I am not at all surprised to see it fall back into an Atlantic based pattern today, However, as long as that cold pool out East remains there we could well see more isolated output suggesting an 'Easterly' like last night's ECM did but until there is considerably more support from the rest of the models and ensemble data in general (i.e 50%+) then I would treat them with speculation.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
GIBBY
14 January 2014 08:35:48

Good morning. Here is this morning's guide through the output from the big 5 NWP models for today Tuesday January 14th 2014 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models continue the changeable theme of weather for the next week or so. Low pressure remains in control of the weather though a ridge of High pressure crossing East today will give a dry and fine day for many with an early frost under light winds. Tonight a warm front crosses East with rain and drizzle for all before the cold front follows tomorrow with further outbreaks of rain. Temperatures will become mild melting hill snow settled over Northern Britain. Through the remainder of the week and weekend Low pressure remains close to NW Britain with showers or longer spells of rain in all areas and temperatures never far from average in mostly South or SW winds. Further flooding issues are a risk in the South and West in particular.


GFS then shows a drier and colder interlude early in the week being quickly replaced by strong winds and more unsettled weather with spells of rain and showers at times for the rest of the period. It may feel rather cold at times especially in the North with some snow on higher ground at times.


The GFS Ensembles remain tightly packed in agreement on average temperatures in an Atlantic based pattern throughout the run this morning. All areas remain at risk of further rain and showers throughout the period with no prospect of any significant change to drier or colder conditions anytime soon.


UKMO closes it's run next Monday with Low pressure well established to the NW of Britain with an unstable Westerly airflow over the UK carrying alternating spells of rain and showers mixed with short drier spells in temperatures close to average.


GEM today shows more settled conditions developing next week as pressure builds from the SW with High pressure over the UK by Day 10 with frost and fog by night and some dry and bright days with sunshine. Though improvements in the South start quite early next week things take rather longer over Northern Britain.


NAVGEM has no such improvements shown with Low pressure continuing to rule the roost with Westerly winds carrying further troughs and attendant rainfall quickly East across the UK followed by showers in temperatures close to or a little below average with some hill snow possible in the north from the showery spells.


ECM today shows a very changeable pattern next week and after a brief drier and colder interlude to start the week next Monday the weather becomes unsettled and windy with spells of rain and showers again as Low pressure moves across close to the North with strong Westerly winds in average temperatures once more.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts show a similar pattern as last night pulling the pattern slightly East while maintaining the bias towards Low pressure to the NW with Low pressure troughing lying SE down across the East of the UK and North Sea with further rain at times for all the most likely result.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif 


The Jet Stream continues to maintain it's theme of crossing the Atlantic, moving SE to the SW of the UK then East across Southern Europe for some considerable time yet. Later the trend seems for it to tilt more to a East or NE direction across the UK as Low pressure moves East North of Britain through Week 2.


In Summary the pattern remains locked at the moment in a generally unsettled period with rain and showers at times for all areas. Temperatures never look to be far from average as one would expect with a basically Westerly bias to the winds over the period in association with Low pressure mostly close to Northern Britain throughout. It's GEM's turn today for it's operational to show something rather different with High pressure settling things down next week with fine days and night frost and fog but it is looking very isolated in the overall scheme of things this morning. For those looking for snowfall you will continue to have to travel to the hills and mountains of the North at times with even here only limited amounts in the polar maritime air masses that pass through at times.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Gusty
14 January 2014 09:39:13

As others have eluded..there is good consistency this morning at T+96 across the model output.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn961.png


A very wet picture for many,especially so near southern and western coasts. Cooler at times in the north with the risk of wintry precipitation over higher ground. Fortunately the winds do not appear as strong as recent weeks.


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
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The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 10:00:53

bitter cold gets right down to the deep south of the USA


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011406/gfsnh-1-90.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
David M Porter
14 January 2014 10:05:20

I think it's looking increasingly likely now that if anything is going to alter the course of the pattern this winter, it will be the SSW which I believe is/has been taking place recently. Since Christmas there have been hints from time to time of possible changes, but no more than hints and they have never been either well supported or modelled with any real consistency.


It is possible that this winter may ultimately turn out to be something like 2004/05, which saw a lot of extremely unsettled, sometimes stormy, weather during December and January, but finished with a much quieter February which included a cold spell in the second half of that month.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 10:09:40

consistent out to this point. should be quite cold under the slack trough and PM air


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011406/gfsnh-0-120.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 10:18:17

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1441.png


 


No mans land. Not a bad place to be even though we know the western army will begin the charge soon


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
14 January 2014 10:22:16


consistent out to this point. should be quite cold under the slack trough and PM air


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011406/gfsnh-0-120.png?6


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12017.png


Indeed, might get a -5 out of this


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn12617.png


Followed by a cold day


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 10:27:09

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1681.png


Interesting. a little shortwave slides across. is it cold enough?


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
14 January 2014 10:28:45

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1684.png


Shows the position of the HP quite well


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 10:32:06

the battle is lost for now, but there is still room for improvement


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Quantum
14 January 2014 10:33:08

6Z is an upgrade on the 0Z. It seems to me that the situation we have is extremely unstable and that it takes very little to push it one way or the other. I wouldn't be suprised to see the easterly come back for a 3rd time at some point. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Russwirral
14 January 2014 11:01:52

Thankfully after Wednesday nights rain - it does look like a drier outlook (despite being under Low Pressure)


 


small bands of showers rather than large systems of rain look to be the order of the day, which should allow for rivers to empy a bit more.  It will be cool though - enough for some snow on the hills in the north.


 


 


Arbroath 1320
14 January 2014 11:07:36

6Z is an upgrade on the 0Z. It seems to me that the situation we have is extremely unstable and that it takes very little to push it one way or the other. I wouldn't be suprised to see the easterly come back for a 3rd time at some point.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 



Yet another GFS run though and yet again it models the Azores High running the show. In December, the dominant feature was the Euroslug whereas in January it is the Azores High.

As things stand, it's difficult to see how the UK can get any sustained cold from this set up. Even when the Atlantic calms down the Azores high is there exerting its influence.
GGTTH
Stormchaser
14 January 2014 11:08:09

The long term signal for a block somewhere to our NE remains this morning.


While it's looking like a case of 'close but no cigar' in the next 10 days, ECM shows LP on the slide again on day 10 and with an amplifying pattern upstream that could generate a ridge over the top of our slider, then enticing the Russia/Scandi block westward.


GFS 00z is flatter and more progressive for a time in FI (surprised?  ...nope) but does actually go on to produce a very similar scenario to ECM, and generates a very promising NH setup from there for days 14-16.


GFS 06z wasn't far away in the end - just had too much PV energy drifting from Siberia into the high Arctic.


 


At the risk of restarting what nearly became a stuck record last winter;


Patience, grasshopper....


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
colin46
14 January 2014 11:13:43

cold weather seekers are an optimistic bunch even in the face of certain defeat!!


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
Quantum
14 January 2014 11:16:58

6Z is an upgrade on the 0Z. It seems to me that the situation we have is extremely unstable and that it takes very little to push it one way or the other. I wouldn't be suprised to see the easterly come back for a 3rd time at some point.

Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 

Yet another GFS run though and yet again it models the Azores High running the show. In December, the dominant feature was the Euroslug whereas in January it is the Azores High. As things stand, it's difficult to see how the UK can get any sustained cold from this set up. Even when the Atlantic calms down the Azores high is there exerting its influence.

Originally Posted by: Quantum 


Well the ECM used LP over Europe to inflate a scandi high and kept the high in the atlantic a mid-atlantic feature. What we do consistantly see on all the models is an extremely southerly jet at about 84h. This seems to be what is causing the models confusion. The jet itself goes right into north africa and it sends upper level lows south with it. The amount of energy that goes south seems to be key, and seems finely balanced in favour of not quite enough to inflate the scandanavian high. But as yesterday's ECM shows, it really doesn't take much more stuff going south to change that. Until this period is resolved and the jet flattens later on in the run it cannot be completely ruled out that another Easterly will show again today.  


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Stormchaser
14 January 2014 11:17:55


Thankfully after Wednesday nights rain - it does look like a drier outlook (despite being under Low Pressure)


 


small bands of showers rather than large systems of rain look to be the order of the day, which should allow for rivers to empy a bit more.  It will be cool though - enough for some snow on the hills in the north.


 


 

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Sorry, but the GFS 00z and 06z runs show a stalled or slow moving frontal system across the UK this weekend, so that analysis isn't entirely true for some places.


Also, the models tend to vastly underestimate the penetration of showers inland from the coast.


My local river back home has only fallen 3cm in the past 4 days, and that's with not all that much rain falling, so I anticipate steady levels or even a renewed rise from Wednesday through to the end of the weekend.


 


However, factoring this in still produces a drier week than the first 7 days of January, for example, so your overall point there stands 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/accumulation-precipitations/3h.htm


For what it's worth, I reckon a more accurate projection should increase inland totals by 5-10mm and coastal totals by 3-5mm. That's just based on recent experience, but bear in mind the values are averages over wide areas, and local totals will vary considerably around that due to the nature of showers.


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

https://twitter.com/peacockreports 
2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
roger63
14 January 2014 11:39:39


6Z is an upgrade on the 0Z. It seems to me that the situation we have is extremely unstable and that it takes very little to push it one way or the other. I wouldn't be suprised to see the easterly come back for a 3rd time at some point. 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=4&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=8&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=11&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=19&mode=0&carte=0


The pendulum swings a bit liitle more.GFS op tantaizingly close  at 144h but no supprt from ensemble swhich are 80% zonal.


The ens that bucked the trend are above.

Russwirral
14 January 2014 11:50:22



Thankfully after Wednesday nights rain - it does look like a drier outlook (despite being under Low Pressure)


 


small bands of showers rather than large systems of rain look to be the order of the day, which should allow for rivers to empy a bit more.  It will be cool though - enough for some snow on the hills in the north.


 


 

Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


Sorry, but the GFS 00z and 06z runs show a stalled or slow moving frontal system across the UK this weekend, so that analysis isn't entirely true for some places.


Also, the models tend to vastly underestimate the penetration of showers inland from the coast.


My local river back home has only fallen 3cm in the past 4 days, and that's with not all that much rain falling, so I anticipate steady levels or even a renewed rise from Wednesday through to the end of the weekend.


 


However, factoring this in still produces a drier week than the first 7 days of January, for example, so your overall point there stands 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/accumulation-precipitations/3h.htm


For what it's worth, I reckon a more accurate projection should increase inland totals by 5-10mm and coastal totals by 3-5mm. That's just based on recent experience, but bear in mind the values are averages over wide areas, and local totals will vary considerably around that due to the nature of showers.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


 


I agree there will be some fronts around, but the LP looks like a decaying feature, with only slight temperature gradients, slack winds.  Experience has told me the models seem to over egg any precip if not within the High Res time boundary (basically less than 48 hrs away)


 


I expect any precip currently being forecast to dip slightly as we go into the weekend.  Its possible some areas might see a dry weekend, albeit Frosty. With the winds being light and all....


 


 


The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 12:00:28



6Z is an upgrade on the 0Z. It seems to me that the situation we have is extremely unstable and that it takes very little to push it one way or the other. I wouldn't be suprised to see the easterly come back for a 3rd time at some point. 


Originally Posted by: roger63 


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=4&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=8&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=11&mode=0&carte=0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?ech=144&code=19&mode=0&carte=0


The pendulum swings a bit liitle more.GFS op tantaizingly close  at 144h but no supprt from ensemble swhich are 80% zonal.


The ens that bucked the trend are above.


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


a few more come very close at 144. About 10 of the perturbations look ok. Of course most get blasted away, but beyond day 6 is still at eternity away in these setups


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
14 January 2014 12:09:57

Fergusson saying now only 10% chance of the easterly, in line with the ECM ens. Perhaps I'll throw in the towel with tonights 12zs


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Russwirral
14 January 2014 12:16:03
Last night, I was thinking how this 'could*' go in a similar but the complete opposite way of the beast from the east that never was last year.

In that, there are ingredients there that could play into our favour. No easterly is being strongly forecast.

But imagine, we see a flip similar to how the Easterly was forecast then flopped back at the 11th hour back in December 2012.

Just sayin...




(*Last straws have been clutched and dropped, no more straws being grasped. Literally no evidence to back this up)


Quantum
14 January 2014 12:24:45

Last night, I was thinking how this 'could*' go in a similar but the complete opposite way of the beast from the east that never was last year. In that, there are ingredients there that could play into our favour. No easterly is being strongly forecast. But imagine, we see a flip similar to how the Easterly was forecast then flopped back at the 11th hour back in December 2012. Just sayin... (*Last straws have been clutched and dropped, no more straws being grasped. Literally no evidence to back this up)

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Has this ever happened? There are quite a few examples of dropped easterlies. But have they ever been picked up at the last minute? 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Quantum
14 January 2014 12:37:42

Until the 12Z comes out, and offers a '300' style battle here is something to keep you interested.


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011406/gfsnh-10-384.png?6


 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
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