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David M Porter
16 January 2014 17:01:33

Interesting model charts starting to appear at times- will they lead to a change of pattern eventually?


It's all yours, folks.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
roger63
16 January 2014 17:07:52

The blunt truth - at 12h none of the models op runs (GFS,UKMO,GEM ,NAVGEM,JMA) show any easterly flow over the UK in the reliable timeframe out to 144h.


Beyond this GEM introduces a weak easterly flow arounda sinking LP at 192h.


Suspect the more favorable ENs in the GEFS  at 06 will be reducing on this run.

Quantum
16 January 2014 17:09:51

Something new is starting to appear on the models. And I urge people not to take SLP so literally and to use NH views! 


Although its pretty well established now that the drop in the jet stream to africa is only going to result in a stalemate for the UK, what happens after in the medium term is very interesting. In particular the section of the Polar vortex to the west of greenland. At the 500mb level there have been height rises in that area of 20dm, and corresponding surface lows have been also weaker, more eliptical, and following a more southerly trajectory.


Meanwhile in the arctic, once again the bering is starting to come into play. There is going to be a huge amount of WAA there in the medium term, which is going to cause a monster arctic high to develop (perhaps 1045mb<). Also note there is some amplification of the midatlantic high too, which is always welcome.


The stubborness of the scandanavian ridge combined with a weaker atlantic and a well positioned arctic high seems to inevitably point to a slow transition towards good northern blocking. The most recent GFS run (12z) has an influx of very cold uppers from the arctic starting to get mixed into the circulation of the scandi high; overall the mid-long term prognosis looks very promising and in the later case we have to take into account of sustained minor stratospheric warming and the possibility of a major event well into FI.


The GEM offers a taste of what may be to come if the models like the GFS and UKMO have got the pattern right. Though note, I think the GEM solution itself is far to progressive with the blocking.


The spanner in the works is the ECMWF, the 0Z was awful this morning. If it wasn't for the ECMWF I would be feeling extremely optimistic, as it is I am going to be a little bit more reserved if possible.  


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
JACKO4EVER
16 January 2014 17:20:23


The blunt truth - at 12h none of the models op runs (GFS,UKMO,GEM ,NAVGEM,JMA) show any easterly flow over the UK in the reliable timeframe out to 144h.


Beyond this GEM introduces a weak easterly flow arounda sinking LP at 192h.


Suspect the more favorable ENs in the GEFS  at 06 will be reducing on this run.


Originally Posted by: roger63 


Yes, and that feeble Easterly hasn't got much oomph! 


Very mixed signals overall, no real pattern change ahead IMO, though it may briefly turn a little cooler. Still, with the higher heights to NE we have to remain vigilant- though with a quite powerful jet nothing should be ruled out either way. 

Polar Low
Gooner
16 January 2014 17:48:36

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-312.png?12


Control is good late on, does seem to be something changing


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Karl Guille
16 January 2014 17:56:09

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/run/gensnh-0-1-312.png?12 
Control is good late on, does seem to be something changing

Originally Posted by: Gooner 



Yep, plenty of jam tomorrow, but I do think you have a point!

St. Sampson
Guernsey
Retron
16 January 2014 18:01:28

Big downgrade on the 12z GEFS compared to the 6z [in terms of cold]. I couldn't believe how much of an upgrade the 6z suite was, but the 12z GEFS brings me back down to earth pretty quickly. It ties in with the high levels of uncertainty mentioned by Ian F on NW.


Leysdown, north Kent
Quantum
16 January 2014 18:04:10


Big downgrade on the 12z GEFS compared to the 6z [in terms of cold]. I couldn't believe how much of an upgrade the 6z suite was, but the 12z GEFS brings me back down to earth pretty quickly. It ties in with the high levels of uncertainty mentioned by Ian F on NW.


Originally Posted by: Retron 


In terms of the overall pattern 12Z is a big upgrade on the 6Z imo. In fact on the 12Z there is more deep cold circulating in the scandi high. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
ITSY
16 January 2014 18:05:41


Big downgrade on the 12z GEFS compared to the 6z [in terms of cold]. I couldn't believe how much of an upgrade the 6z suite was, but the 12z GEFS brings me back down to earth pretty quickly. It ties in with the high levels of uncertainty mentioned by Ian F on NW.


Originally Posted by: Retron 



I wish Shannon would just do one!

Gooner
16 January 2014 18:20:43

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECH1-96.GIF?16-0


ECM out to 96


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
16 January 2014 18:22:08

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECH1-120.GIF?16-0


will the LP spin round for a NEly


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:23:17

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECH1-120.GIF?16-0


Could be worse but it seems impossible to get the easterly


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Polar Low
16 January 2014 18:23:59

Quite cold air in the mix on that first little slider.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf.php?ech=96&mode=0&map=3&type=0&archive=0

The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:26:07

ECM is the best of the big 3 at 120hrs


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:29:26

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECH1-144.GIF?16-0


just about


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:30:40

the behaviour of the trough disruption is still changing with every run and perhaps will not get resolved till +72.


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
16 January 2014 18:31:13
Not an especially nice outlook in coming days based on today's output. Cool, grey, wet. Typical easterly muck. Little sunshine and little real cold. Still, as things seem to still be changing to an extent on a daily basis there is time for a change.
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:37:36

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECM1-168.GIF?16-0


What is the Azores high upto. Trough stuck over the UK. Could go either way from here


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
SEMerc
16 January 2014 18:41:11

Certainly looks a bit different to the previous run. Just need that shallow low to move south a bit.

The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:42:07

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1681.gif


potentially very cold and icy sitting under this


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Ally Pally Snowman
16 January 2014 18:42:16
Very nearly from the ECM not far off a major snow event there.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1682.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
The Beast from the East
16 January 2014 18:43:33

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECH1-192.GIF?16-0


perhaps a brief flirt with the east, but overall upstream looks more favourable


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Gooner
16 January 2014 18:44:29

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011612/ECH1-192.GIF?16-0


looks like a very brief NEly


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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