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Stormchaser
17 January 2014 19:57:32

Stonking great Arctic High on the ECM run... already touching 1050mb by 144h.


UKMO has a >1045mb feature at that time while GFS is down at near 1040mb.


 


Having a strong Arctic High involved in shattering the vortex increases the cold potential immensely, but of course it firstly has to evolve and secondly has to drift into the right location for us.


Because of the Atlantic jet firing up for a bit and throwing a major trough at us, there looks to be strong support for that Arctic High to the north of the UK, and as the trough weakens the natural tendency should be for that high to drift towards us, encouraged further by the strat. vortex shape.


Interesting times 


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Hippydave
17 January 2014 20:04:49

Lovely looking end of the run from ECM - strong Artic HP nudging South pushing LP down over us, HP in the Atlantic being sucked North pushing warm air up over Greenland and halting the Atlantic train. If the actual weather did evolve along those lines I reckon it'd be in to a decent cold spell.


If the Artic HP stuck around it might even last for a while too


All pretty pixels of course but the GFS op manages something similar so one to watch imo. Surprised there's not been a little more excitement, everyone must have been tired out with all those easterly teases


Home: Tunbridge Wells
Work: Tonbridge
Gooner
17 January 2014 20:14:27

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011712/ECH1-240.GIF?17-0  Goes the right way

Originally Posted by: Rob K 

Looking at the GFS and ECM's evolution perhaps the best shot at something wintry all winter coming up in FI, at best a 2-3 day toppler? If we are lucky perhaps something like a 2003 thundersnow event - just so damn hard to get any cold near the UK at the moment it's almost like an invisible forcefield around us! UserPostedImage Still if the JMA model is right on Gavin's earlier video at least March will be pleasant.

Originally Posted by: Scandy 1050 MB 

I don't know what you're seeing in ECM but that certainly ain't a toppler!

Originally Posted by: Gooner 


I agree , the way the AH is coming down how would we only get a toppler


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
17 January 2014 20:17:53


Game set and match to GFS it seems. It was never keen on the Easterly unlike ECM


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Surprised you are still here


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


GIBBY
17 January 2014 20:46:48

Good evening. Here is tonight's report on the midday outputs from the NWP for today Friday January 17th 2014 taken from http://www.norton-radstockweather.co.uk/Model-Analysis(2859336).htm


All models show Low pressure continuing to dominate the weather over the UK for the next week with the general trend for Low pressure areas to slip SE across the UK while filling up early in the period with changeable conditions for all areas. Later next week a new Low slips SE down over the UK too with further rain and showers for all but with an increase of the Westerly wind to accompany the rain.


GFS then shows the Azores High ridging towards Southern Britain for a time late next week damping down the rain for a time in the South while some continues across the North. Later in the run the Low pressure areas to the North dig deeper down over Britain again with gales and heavy rain giving way to cold and showery conditions with snow showers in places late in the run as winds swing Northerly, this due to the Low pressure area responsible moving SE over the UK and Europe to be followed by a brief ridge of High pressure by Day 15.


The GFS Ensembles tonight show a continuation of generally unsettled weather with rain or showers at times. For much of the time temperatures will remain close to average though a slow dip below average may be apparent for some Southern areas late in the run. It may also prove rather windy at times to next week.


UKMO shows a quiet day next Thursday as pressure has become slack over the UK as Low pressure clears the SE and High pressure tries to ridge NE over Britain. The likely result will be a rather cold day with a lot of cloud and a little rain in the East, possibly falling as sleet and snow over the hills of the NE.


GEM tonight shows a very unsettled period from the end of next week as deep Low pressure areas either pass East to the North of the UK or down across the Nation giving rise to strong winds and rain at times throughout. Some wintry showers would be possible in the colder NW flow later, especially in the North.


NAVGEM shows a more sedate period late next week and weekend but still largely unsettled with some rain at times as troughs pass East over all areas over the period.


ECM also continues the unsettled mode throughout the latter stages of it's run with increasingly deep depressions coming back from the NW across Britain with gale or severe gale force winds from the West likely with spells of rain followed by wintry showers the most likely weather pattern by 10 days time with temperatures near to or somewhat below average.


The ECM 9 and 10 Day Mean Charts tonight signify that Low pressure close to Northern Scotland is the bias of opinion between the ensemble members of ECM tonight keeping unsettled and breezy weather going for all areas at this juncture in average temperatures.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2161.gif
http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Reem2401.gif


The Jet Stream Forecast shows the flow maintaining it's current position under moderate strength over the next 4-5 days. Later next week the flow strengthens markedly which may promote some strong depressions once again to the North of Britain leaving the UK in some strong surface wind strengths too.


In Summary the weather remains quite unsettled over the next few weeks. In the first week the weather will see occasional rainfall some of which will be heavy and slow moving as fronts and sliding depressions stall over the UK before losing their identity in situ. There could be some drier spells in places when frost patches and fog become possible as well as some snow on Northern hills at times. Through Week 2 the Jet Stream is strongly supported to strengthen markedly spinning up some more powerful depressions close to the Northern Isles whipping up severe Westerly gales at times and rain bands followed by showers, some wintry the favoured sequence of events. Overall temperatures will stay close to average or somewhat below at times through the whole period.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Quantum
17 January 2014 20:48:30

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011712/ECH100-240.GIF?17-0


No poxy scandi high needed when you have this!


Look at those uppers in siberia and russia. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
White Meadows
17 January 2014 20:57:43
Real potential in the ECM tonight. Shame it's at the end of the run but we get proper heights over Greenland for the first time this season.

Feb might just turn out very different to chapter 1&2 of this winter!!
Steve Murr
17 January 2014 21:04:17

Game set and match to GFS it seems. It was never keen on the Easterly unlike ECM

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 

You know I was thinking the same

Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


See that little black line


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/new_acz6.html


 


the one that puts GFS third in the running & forth in the last week or so- Im going to extend it through your statements....


I dont know why anyone wastes their time with it- The met office & NCEP both write it off daily.


S


 


 

Karl Guille
17 January 2014 21:09:45

Real potential in the ECM tonight. Shame it's at the end of the run but we get proper heights over Greenland for the first time this season.

Feb might just turn out very different to chapter 1&2 of this winter!!

Originally Posted by: White Meadows 



ECM 12z Control has been at the left-over Christmas Sherry by the looks of things (-12 2m temps)!!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
NickR
17 January 2014 21:13:54


Game set and match to GFS it seems. It was never keen on the Easterly unlike ECM

Originally Posted by: Steve Murr 

You know I was thinking the same

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


See that little black line


http://www.emc.ncep.noaa.gov/gmb/STATS/html/new_acz6.html


 


the one that puts GFS third in the running & forth in the last week or so- Im going to extend it through your statements....


I dont know why anyone wastes their time with it- The met office & NCEP both write it off daily.


S


 


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


...and at other times first or second, in the interests of a balanced presentation. 


I think the point is that for certain patterns it can be better than the others. The trick is recognising when this is the case.


Picking on the poor performance on certain days last week isn't necessarily all there is to it. Dec 22-27, it outperformed ECM and it was much of a muchness for about 8 days after that before ECM bombed and then GFS bombed. What were the patterns in which it performed better than the others? 


This is the key, not simply rejecting it tout court.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Karl Guille
17 January 2014 22:11:26
At T120, the Low on GFS 18z is a fair bit further south and has the potential it would seem to at least undercut the Scandi High a little more than it did on the 12z!
St. Sampson
Guernsey
Quantum
17 January 2014 22:41:43

18z is fantastic for long term prospects.


Look at that 552 isopleth making it right to the north pole! Thats my old friend the bering high (or well, the nearish pacific high!)!. Scandi block looks a little stronger too!


ECM (to GFS18Z): Your run was fantastic, absolutely fantastic. And you know what?


GFS: *shakes head


ECM: So was I!


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20140117/18/204/npsh500.png


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20140117/12/npsh500.240.png


 


 


FYI: The ECM isn't updating to a new version or anything, for anyone that actually got the reference. Sorry about putting in occasional pop culture references to my posts, its a way to alleviate the tedium of a long dull winter.  


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
ITSY
17 January 2014 23:10:09


18z is fantastic for long term prospects.


Look at that 552 isopleth making it right to the north pole! Thats my old friend the bering high (or well, the nearish pacific high!)!. Scandi block looks a little stronger too!


ECM (to GFS18Z): Your run was fantastic, absolutely fantastic. And you know what?


GFS: *shakes head


ECM: So was I!


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/gfsimages/gfs.20140117/18/204/npsh500.png


http://cdn.nwstatic.co.uk/ecmimages/20140117/12/npsh500.240.png


 


 


FYI: The ECM isn't updating to a new version or anything, for anyone that actually got the reference. Sorry about putting in occasional pop culture references to my posts, its a way to alleviate the tedium of a long dull winter.  


Originally Posted by: Quantum 


I'd take the ECM first if you don't mind 

Rob K
17 January 2014 23:15:27
??

The 18z looks decidedly less impressive over the Arctic to me. Not much height building and a generally boring setup.
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Gooner
17 January 2014 23:42:49

?? The 18z looks decidedly less impressive over the Arctic to me. Not much height building and a generally boring setup.

Originally Posted by: Rob K 


It does to me also the AH is all too weak and comes to nothing....doesn't it?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
17 January 2014 23:45:29

The 18z ENS are less impressive also, dangles the carrot then snatches it away


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Quantum
18 January 2014 00:01:20


The 18z ENS are less impressive also, dangles the carrot then snatches it away


Originally Posted by: Gooner 




I wouldn't worry too much about it, the general pattern is the best we have seen since mid december imo. That should be reason for encouragment despite some spoilers on thre 18z. 


Twitter: @QuantumOverlord (general), @MedicaneWatch (medicane/TC stuff)
2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Andy Woodcock
18 January 2014 00:08:39
oh dear, people are being sucked in again.

If there was any chance of a decent cold spell in the medium term the MetO MRF would have picked it up.

By this time tomorrow the ghost cold spell beyond 192 will be history.

Come on lads will you ever learn?

Andy
Andy Woodcock
Penrith
Cumbria

Altitude 535 feet

"Why are the British so worried about climate change? Any change to their climate can only be an improvement" John Daley 2001
NickR
18 January 2014 00:16:17

oh dear, people are being sucked in again. If there was any chance of a decent cold spell in the medium term the MetO MRF would have picked it up. By this time tomorrow the ghost cold spell beyond 192 will be history. Come on lads will you ever learn? Andy

Originally Posted by: Andy Woodcock 


That's simply not true. The chance has to be fairly strong and signalled repeatedly for it to be mentioned. The fact it does not appear atm doesn't mean there isn't "any chance". People are just commenting on what is, at least, a more promising pattern than we've seen for a long time, regarding the PV, even if it needs "confirming" on more runs.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
18 January 2014 01:10:06
If I remember with the best instances, isn't it more likely that what we got at last fortnight of December will not re-appear for the same period in January, I think that the Activity is bound to be favouring a Hugely wavy Jetstream the next Week and after it for rest of January- what with the waviness up and down about the Statospheric warming and the placing of the Polar Vortex's in right to left alignment to High Pressure - Heights high in blocking and Lower Heights under the Low's.

This distribution is subject to cooling from the Ground as well as above and if the North Atlantic vs USA Canada and the Europe, Iceland and Svabard to Greenland and Scandy Norway Cold Surface and Mid Level Pool's and Interacting with mixing from the Upper's air that is cooling down and it faces Cold High Pressure and those blocking Highs then they be it by ECMWF, UKMO or the GFS can and they usually do turn our weather in UK cold and more frosty with some snow in some mid or late January's and especially Feb- April Months I am more confident that this remaining winter is still not half full yet- just that we have to endure some soggy wet and slightly above normal weather for say 7 weeks this winter so far.

Making full assumptions and relaying them as being more dominant can only be fitting and purposeful depending on how the last 6 weeks winter turn out as they could actually be and are more well known to be colder than the average temps and sunniness and wintrynes- which some times does not happen in some many years at winter time, but these are equally more dominant as are the Very Cold North and Northwesterly Plunges- they can and have occurred and these when Modelled in a number of GFS runs and added by with a bunch of UKMO and ECMWF runs they then give us a likely prospect and confidence if they persist Upto two weeks and we get this unfold and it is the winter's - many in the last 14 years and 25 of them of recent and this one that I thin how many of them were cloudy wet mild or cold frosty with rain sleet and snow on mixed with wet and less cold weather- I think it is equal between the two based on my memory of them, but the snowy and very cold and frosty winter's are now much rarer and hence I agree that overall the night' and day's max temperatures in London tend to rise above normal much more.

But even then, I still give the colder and wintry weather risk of happening a regular 60/40 in favour of some parts of every or some winters as delivering proper cold and wintry weather for much of the UK, and adding March to April from the Spring's they add a lot to our winter weather roster!.
Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
Gusty
18 January 2014 06:53:52

There certainly appears to be a better placed Scandinavian High this morning in FI at 144 hours. With an attendant cold pool courtesy of the Siberian trough giving a new and fresh supply of extra cold air. The atlantic appears to be stalling in situ too.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rnvg1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1441.png


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014011712/gem-0-144.png?12


It would appear to me that there are now some background signals appearing for height rises to the north at the end of the month. Whether this manifests itself southwards enough to influence us in the form of an Arctic, Greenland or Scandinavan block in the crucial pre 120 hours timeframe remains to be seen.


I feel some cause for optimism if its cold weather you prefer this morning in the longer term. We finally appear to have some decent deep cold to tap into if 144 hours is on the money. 


 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Gooner
18 January 2014 07:43:39

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011800/ECH1-216.GIF?18-12


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014011800/ECH1-240.GIF?18-12


A decent set up from ECM with the Artic High starting to take charge


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2014011800/gfsnh-0-252.png?0


A similar story from GFS


 


 


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Ally Pally Snowman
18 January 2014 08:35:45
Wow! Probably the best day 10 chart of the winter. Absolutely massive potential. But is the ECM leading us up the garden path again time will tell.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.html 
Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Chiltern Blizzard
18 January 2014 08:37:38


Interesting from both ECM and GFS in the second week. Too early to talk specifics but the signals are the most encouraging we've had for wintriness all winter imo (thought that's not saying much!). February could well be a very different month.

Andrew

PS anyone fancy a trip in a week's time to Labrador - doesn't get much more wintry than that this side of the equator!
Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
roger63
18 January 2014 08:47:31


There certainly appears to be a better placed Scandinavian High this morning in FI at 144 hours. With an attendant cold pool courtesy of the Siberian trough giving a new and fresh supply of extra cold air. The atlantic appears to be stalling in situ too.


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rukm1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rnvg1441.gif


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Rtavn1441.png


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014011712/gem-0-144.png?12


It would appear to me that there are now some background signals appearing for height rises to the north at the end of the month. Whether this manifests itself southwards enough to influence us in the form of an Arctic, Greenland or Scandinavan block in the crucial pre 120 hours timeframe remains to be seen.


I feel some cause for optimism if its cold weather you prefer this morning in the longer term. We finally appear to have some decent deep cold to tap into if 144 hours is on the money. 


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


Excellent summary Gusty.The stand off between the Hp and the Atlanic is absolutely fascinating.The morning,as you say the pendulum has swung towards a better positioned ScandI HP and a quieter Atlantic.


GEFS shows some 40% ens  supportt for an easterly creeping in  around 120-144  in but its still  on a knife edge 


The medium term out to 240h is also more encouraging with the big picture being a diving LP and HP build to the north and north east.However 75% of ENS at 240 and 360 still have a zonal flow.

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