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David M Porter
21 June 2014 18:35:33




The whole "Golden Generation" thing was a media creation IMO; I honestly don't think the England teams that played in 2002, 2006 and even 2010 were all that the media at the time hyped them up to be. I can hardly think of one England game I watched from any of those World Cups where I was so impressed with how they played that I thought "This team has a real chance". Not once.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 




Not sure that's totally true. It was the best overall set of players England have had over the past 30-40 years. Yes, it wasn't all brilliant football, but we went toe to toe in major championships with teams considered the best in the world, sometimes winning, but mostly just losing after lady luck shone on the opposition - but never outplayed.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


Apart from the second half of the 4-1 defeat by the Germans in the 2nd round in 2010.


 


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


David, we were talking about the 'Golden Generation' era; by 2010, it had passed. Rest of my post that you selectively quoted showed this clearly.



Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


If you read back, I think you'll find that I quoted your previous post made in reply to mine this morning in full; I merely highlighted the last three words of it in bold which I then commented on.


What you say above may be true, but the 2010 England team had Rooney, Gerrard, Lampard, Ashley Cole, John Terry to name a few from the so-called Golden Generation and who I think had all been to at least one of the previous two World Cups. OK, maybe England in 2010 weren't as good a side man-for-man as they were in '02 and '06, but when the draw for the group stages in South Africa was made, the press (sections of it anyway) seemed convinced that England were onto a winner big time.


They certainly had a much easier group in 2010 (USA, Algeria & Slovenia) than they got in this tournament and really should have walked it. Had England won their group in 2010, they would have played Ghana in the last 16 and probably have made at least the QFs again. Finishing second in their group landed them with the Germans and we all know what happened there don't we!


EDIT: Anyone remember this front page from when the group draw was made for the last World Cup?


 

Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
sriram
21 June 2014 18:35:45
Roy Hodgson - are you watching

It's all about the result and not the performance

Argentina were very much second best against Iran - who should have won the game and a definite penalty turned down

But a 90th minute winner in injury time by Messi changes everything

England had periods of good play in their group matches but not the result to show for it
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
Saint Snow
21 June 2014 18:41:14

Iran - who should have won the game and a definite penalty turned down

Originally Posted by: sriram 


 


Feel for Iran, but that was not a penalty; the guy played the ball. The sport's been 'wendyballed' far too much by Blatter and his softarse sh*thouses already. Let's not ban tackling altogether.


Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
SEMerc
21 June 2014 18:54:36


By 2016, despite club rivalry, I hope van Gaal sorts out a permanent role for Rooney that suits his game where it is now. I don't like him, but feel a bit sad that the greatest English footballing talent of his generation - and watch him in Euro 2004 if you forget just how good he was - has never yet come close to fulfilling his potential.


Anyway, I hope it sinks in to some players that signing for a 'big' (read moneybags) club early in their career, only to be stockpiled 'just in case', will ruin them. They should stay or sign with the sort of club that won't hoover up potential talent by throwing crooked money at them, only to loan-out 20-odd players every season, before the players, having had their career stalled, disappear into obscurity.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Precisely and that's what separates the Southampton academy from most others and why it has proven so successful over the years.

Brian Gaze
21 June 2014 18:59:20

By 2016, despite club rivalry, I hope van Gaal sorts out a permanent role for Rooney that suits his game where it is now. I don't like him, but feel a bit sad that the greatest English footballing talent of his generation - and watch him in Euro 2004 if you forget just how good he was - has never yet come close to fulfilling his potential.


Anyway, I hope it sinks in to some players that signing for a 'big' (read moneybags) club early in their career, only to be stockpiled 'just in case', will ruin them. They should stay or sign with the sort of club that won't hoover up potential talent by throwing crooked money at them, only to loan-out 20-odd players every season, before the players, having had their career stalled, disappear into obscurity.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



You're being harsh on the players. It's understandable that their main priority is financial security. I don't blame them one iota for taking a big pay cheque at one of the leading clubs and then sitting on the sidelines or playing for the reserves. Blame the system, country etc. but not the players.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
SEMerc
21 June 2014 19:18:52

Murphy: "I came across two English fans with German shirts. I found that somewhat disturbing"


Meanwhile, the other commentator didn't explain why there are so many Germans living in Brazil.

Saint Snow
21 June 2014 19:25:02


By 2016, despite club rivalry, I hope van Gaal sorts out a permanent role for Rooney that suits his game where it is now. I don't like him, but feel a bit sad that the greatest English footballing talent of his generation - and watch him in Euro 2004 if you forget just how good he was - has never yet come close to fulfilling his potential.


Anyway, I hope it sinks in to some players that signing for a 'big' (read moneybags) club early in their career, only to be stockpiled 'just in case', will ruin them. They should stay or sign with the sort of club that won't hoover up potential talent by throwing crooked money at them, only to loan-out 20-odd players every season, before the players, having had their career stalled, disappear into obscurity.


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



You're being harsh on the players. It's understandable that their main priority is financial security. I don't blame them one iota for taking a big pay cheque at one of the leading clubs and then sitting on the sidelines or playing for the reserves. Blame the system, country etc. but not the players.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


They get financial security at clubs like Southampton or Villa or Everton or the like. Perhaps not as obscene a pay cheque as Citeh or Chavski will wave at them - but then, they stand a far better chance of having a career in the top flight, rather than seeing their career stall in the limbo of bouncing between reserve football and being loaned out.


I guess it's the modern British problem of short termism, and chasing 'celebridee' status rather than self-fulfillment.


Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
NickR
21 June 2014 19:42:28

For crying out loud! We're now been fed the line that the target is (and was always) Euro 2016. What a load of bull. It's also insulting to England fans who've spent £thousands on going to Brazil to watch only 2 competitive games and 1 friendly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10916705/World-Cup-2014-It-is-time-to-ditch-Club-England-nonsense-and-get-back-to-basics-in-time-for-France-2016.html

FWIW I'd sack Woy and get Mourinho or Martinez in. At least they'd not be so grey.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 



We were never expecting much from this WC. We were always seeing this as a stepping stone towards rebuilding something more significant in the following years.


Where have you been over the last year or 2?

Nick
Durham
[email protected]
Saint Snow
21 June 2014 19:56:48


If you read back, I think you'll find that I quoted your previous post made in reply to mine this morning in full; I merely highlighted the last three words of it in bold which I then commented on.


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


Yes. Well. I've been pontificating so much on this thread in recent days that I get mixed up.


Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
nickl
21 June 2014 20:11:10
Watching the germans score - when its going for you, its going for you.

SEMerc
21 June 2014 20:14:56

Watching the germans score - when its going for you, its going for you.

Originally Posted by: nickl 


Fluke goal then Ghana get a 'proper' goal. Good header.

SEMerc
21 June 2014 20:23:34

SEMerc
21 June 2014 20:28:39

Medlock Vale Weather
21 June 2014 20:31:35

What a player Klose is, now joint top scorer of all time in World Cups with Ronaldo (the Brazilian fat Ronaldo) 

Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
SEMerc
21 June 2014 20:40:24

I've never rated Boateng as an FB, but good grief both FBs have been poor for Germany this evening. Stronger teams than Ghana will be duly taking note.

SydneyonTees
21 June 2014 21:22:48



The whole "Golden Generation" thing was a media creation IMO; I honestly don't think the England teams that played in 2002, 2006 and even 2010 were all that the media at the time hyped them up to be. I can hardly think of one England game I watched from any of those World Cups where I was so impressed with how they played that I thought "This team has a real chance". Not once.


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 




Not sure that's totally true. It was the best overall set of players England have had over the past 30-40 years. Yes, it wasn't all brilliant football, but we went toe to toe in major championships with teams considered the best in the world, sometimes winning, but mostly just losing after lady luck shone on the opposition - but never outplayed.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


Apart from the second half of the 4-1 defeat by the Germans in the 2nd round in 2010.


 


Originally Posted by: David M Porter 


 


David, we were talking about the 'Golden Generation' era; by 2010, it had passed. Rest of my post that you selectively quoted showed this clearly.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



I think the peak of the Golden generation was Euro 04. Started with a close loss to a very talented French team 2-1. Then a 3-0 win over the Swiss. Then a 4-2 win over a very talented Croatian side. Then in the quarter final a 2-2 with the Portuguese only losing 6-5 on penalties. 4 great performances in a row can't really complain.

Originally Posted by: David M Porter 



I see the world cup 2002 as the peak actually. Beat Argentina in the group and easily advanced through the last 16 with a 3-0 win against Denmark. Lost to Brazil in the QF by the amazingly freakish goal by Ronaldinho, Brazil were there for the taking. Would have played Turkey in a SF.

Brian Gaze
21 June 2014 21:26:13


By 2016, despite club rivalry, I hope van Gaal sorts out a permanent role for Rooney that suits his game where it is now. I don't like him, but feel a bit sad that the greatest English footballing talent of his generation - and watch him in Euro 2004 if you forget just how good he was - has never yet come close to fulfilling his potential.


Anyway, I hope it sinks in to some players that signing for a 'big' (read moneybags) club early in their career, only to be stockpiled 'just in case', will ruin them. They should stay or sign with the sort of club that won't hoover up potential talent by throwing crooked money at them, only to loan-out 20-odd players every season, before the players, having had their career stalled, disappear into obscurity.


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



You're being harsh on the players. It's understandable that their main priority is financial security. I don't blame them one iota for taking a big pay cheque at one of the leading clubs and then sitting on the sidelines or playing for the reserves. Blame the system, country etc. but not the players.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


They get financial security at clubs like Southampton or Villa or Everton or the like. Perhaps not as obscene a pay cheque as Citeh or Chavski will wave at them - but then, they stand a far better chance of having a career in the top flight, rather than seeing their career stall in the limbo of bouncing between reserve football and being loaned out.


I guess it's the modern British problem of short termism, and chasing 'celebridee' status rather than self-fulfillment.

Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 



One injury and your career is potentially over. I don't blame them for wanting as much £ as possible.
Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
SydneyonTees
21 June 2014 21:26:54

For crying out loud! We're now been fed the line that the target is (and was always) Euro 2016. What a load of bull. It's also insulting to England fans who've spent £thousands on going to Brazil to watch only 2 competitive games and 1 friendly.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/england/10916705/World-Cup-2014-It-is-time-to-ditch-Club-England-nonsense-and-get-back-to-basics-in-time-for-France-2016.html

FWIW I'd sack Woy and get Mourinho or Martinez in. At least they'd not be so grey.

Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 


 


Sacking Woy would achieve nothing at all at this stage. There is no manager in the world could get this mob tournament competitive, the talent just isn't there.


We are just going to have to let Woy get on with it and hope he can develop them ready for Euro 2016. 

future_is_orange
21 June 2014 21:55:09

What a player Klose is, now joint top scorer of all time in World Cups with Ronaldo (the Brazilian fat Ronaldo) 

Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 



A great game... Germany technically a v good team. Ghana v athletic and played with real passion and belief qualities England do not posess
NickR
21 June 2014 21:58:42

I've felt pretty uncomfortable about this (now surely boring if nothing else) practice in this thread as people refer to the England manager (e.g., the post 2 above this one, from both poster and poster he's responding to). This sums it up for me.


http://limpingchicken.com/2012/05/08/william-mager-roy-hodgson/ 

Nick
Durham
[email protected]
SEMerc
21 June 2014 22:15:02


What a player Klose is, now joint top scorer of all time in World Cups with Ronaldo (the Brazilian fat Ronaldo) 


Originally Posted by: future_is_orange 



A great game... Germany technically a v good team. Ghana v athletic and played with real passion and belief qualities England do not posess

Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


Ys, they're technically very good. But I'm sure there are a number of teams out there who will fancy their chances against what are two quite average FBs.

Medlock Vale Weather
21 June 2014 22:26:23

Tomorrow will be interesting, can the USA top Group G? or will Portugal find better form?

Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
SEMerc
21 June 2014 22:46:25


Tomorrow will be interesting, can the USA top Group G? or will Portugal find better form?


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


Unless my maths is up the duff the chances are they'll get through with only a draw.

SydneyonTees
22 June 2014 03:15:26

[quote=NickR;611089]


I've felt pretty uncomfortable about this (now surely boring if nothing else) practice in this thread as people refer to the England manager (e.g., the post 2 above this one, from both poster and poster he's responding to). This sums it up for me.


http://limpingchicken.com/2012/05/08/william-mager-roy-hodgson/ 


[/quote


 


You kidding me right.


 


Ok it is childish school yard humour at best probably best demonstrated by Monty Pyhton in the Life of Brian - Wome is your fwiend, wlease Woger' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik0cqxJElqA


***** why am I even justifying this. I have a strong North East accent myself that stands out like a sore thumb in Australia. Whenever I say Yella instead of yellow my wife still corrects me lol The girls at work love it though 


 

Gooner
22 June 2014 06:22:49



Tomorrow will be interesting, can the USA top Group G? or will Portugal find better form?


Originally Posted by: SEMerc 


Unless my maths is up the duff the chances are they'll get through with only a draw.


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


?


they will have 4 pts the same as Germany leaving Ghana and Portugal on 1pt , if USA lose to Germany and Ghana beat Portugal then GD will come into play ....won't it?

Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


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