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Medlock Vale Weather
06 August 2014 22:18:57

Single figure afternoon temps in parts of Scotland by weekend - Autumn just round the corner


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm/runs/2014080612/nmmuk-0-72-0.png?06-19


 


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
sunny coast
06 August 2014 22:52:27

Weathers been crap in this part of southeast this past week or so... Cool and windy with occasional rain.

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


 


really? apart from the storm last monday morning which flooded worthing the rest of last week was fine and warm some late eveining rain on friday then a  fine weekend and so far this week its been fine apart from the rain in the early hours this morning every day has been pretty sunny and always warm

picturesareme
06 August 2014 23:09:34

Weathers been crap in this part of southeast this past week or so... Cool and windy with occasional rain.

Originally Posted by: sunny coast 



really? apart from the storm last monday morning which flooded worthing the rest of last week was fine and warm some late eveining rain on friday then a fine weekend and so far this week its been fine apart from the rain in the early hours this morning every day has been pretty sunny and always warm

Originally Posted by: picturesareme 



Heavy showers Saturday & Monday, Sunday I can't remember.. yesterday dry but a lot of cloud, rain last night and a few showers again this afternoon. To be fair today and yesterday have been fairly reasonably temperature wise, but prior to that it's been 19-20C even with the sun.
Sinky1970
07 August 2014 07:04:05
Yep, looks like autumn is almost upon us already.
GIBBY
07 August 2014 07:09:38

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8PM TODAY THURSDAY AUGUST 7TH 2014.


NEXT EXCLUSIVE UPDATE ON MY WEBSITE FROM 22:00HRS TONIGHT


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION. A light Westerly flow across the UK will continue through the day. Fronts will approach the SE from the SW overnight.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE  Changeable and sometimes windy and cool with showers and some longer outbreaks of rain at times. Perhaps drier across the South later.


THE JET STREAM FORECAST The Jet Stream Forecast taken from the GFS Ensemble data shows the flow continues blowing West to east close to northern France strengthening markedly over the weekend and start of next week. It's trend then is for it to weaken and become much more fragmented but with a tendency to trough over the UK.


GFS The GFS operational this morning continues to show the weekend storm moving NE across the UK on Sunday and joining a deep Low pressure complex near Northern Scotland next week which slowly weakens under a slow pressure build from the SW. As High pressure slips East to the South on a week or so time Low pressure re-establishes from the North with Westerly winds to end the run. All this means very changeable conditions with rain or showers at times with a drier, brighter and warmer interlude towards 10 days time. The GFS Ensembles this morning endorse the above sequence of events well with Low pressure well in control of the weather bar a period in the middle of the run when a brief ridge brings a drier and warmer interlude.


UKMO UKMO this morning also shows the deep Low moving NE on Sunday being absorbed by a deep Low complex lying near Shetland and the Northern North Sea through the early part of next week with the heavy rain and strong winds of Sunday chased away by cool and very showery NW winds afterwards.


THE FAX CHARTS The Fax Charts show the small but vigorous Low cross Southern England later on Sunday with a cool and showery West or NW flow developing behind to start next week.


GEM The GEM operational throws a different complexion on events following the weekend storm which is interpreted to move NE across the South on Sunday and join the intense Low pressure zone near Northern Britain for some time early next week. Through this period wind and rain will be the main features and it will feel cool. Later in the run the weather settles down as High pressure ridges across from the South with the South and East becoming very warm and humid with the risk of thundery showers moving North by day 10. 


NAVGEM NAVGEM this morning shows nothing more than a trough crossing Southern Britain on Sunday in an otherwise complex Low pressure structure which intensifies early next week over Northern Britain bringing strong winds and showery rain to all areas at times in cool weather. The end of the run supports a cool and showery WNW flow with the parent Low slipping across to Scandinavia. 


ECM The ECM operational too supports less development of the Sunday feature and shows a more modest blow from the NW next week as pressure steadily recovers from the SW through next week. as a result some heavy rain and showers will be around for a while on Sunday and early next week before the trend towards drier and less cool conditions move across Southern and Western areas later.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS The models continue to struggle with the course and development of the remains of ex hurricane Bertha which throws the outlook beyond this feature wildly different from model to model.


MY THOUGHTS  We are now three days away from the widely talked about ex-tropical storm and the models seem no clearer on either the development or path the system will take. This then makes predictions beyond Sunday speculative and unreliable as the development of the storm will have far reaching implications on the synoptic pattern next week and beyond. For example we have a strong split this morning between the camp that develop the system well and end up with a deep low complex over the UK (ala GFS, UKMO and GEM) for much of next week with cool, windy and showery weather while NAVGEM and ECM in particular make far less of the whole pattern and bring the UK back into fairly benign mid August weather soon afterwards with sunny spells and just well scattered showers. While personally I feel we will share some of the bad weather this ex tropical storm brings on Sunday and early next week I also feel that ECM and NAVGEM might have a better drift on the aftermath as the desire of pressure wanting to rebuild back from the SW later looks strong and joined by GEM later. However, having said that confidence in this and any other outcome has to be unusually low at this point and until the exact course and depth of this Atlantic storm on Sunday is nailed upon events shown thereafter can only be described as pure speculation.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



Look up my New Facebook Weather Page  for all the latest up to the minute weather stories as they happen
Matty H
07 August 2014 07:19:59

Yep, looks like autumn is almost upon us already.

Originally Posted by: Sinky1970 



😂 ok then.

Anyway, back in the real world - as Gibby says, it's nigh on impossible to work out what's going to happen next week with any precision until the track of the low pressure is nailed. Hopefully the rebuild of high pressure wins the day.
cultman1
07 August 2014 07:55:59
I hope too Matty but I have my doubts. We shall see ..... When do you think the models will nail Bertha's tracking position over the UK and then come up with a prognosis for next week?
Maunder Minimum
07 August 2014 07:59:14
According to a Met Office source in the Guardian, Bertha will miss us:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/06/tropical-storm-bertha-britain-caribbean-atlantic 

According to the Express it will drown us and blow us away.
You pays your money and makes your choice :-)

New world order coming.
Matty H
07 August 2014 08:15:21

I hope too Matty but I have my doubts. We shall see ..... When do you think the models will nail Bertha's tracking position over the UK and then come up with a prognosis for next week?

Originally Posted by: cultman1 



I've no idea, but law of probabilities says the closer we get, the less margin for error. However, it wouldn't be the first time a low pressure system has crossed us without the pros being completely sure of how it will track.

In broad terms Southern England looks in line. I'm not that sure of the interest. It won't be a different colour, or sound different, or smell different just because it was a hurricane thousands of miles away. It's a low pressure system. To the casual observer it will rain, it will be windy, it will be thoroughly miserable for a while and then it'll be gone. Good riddance.
Arcus
Charmhills
07 August 2014 08:32:10


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack2a.gif


Updated fax chart for Sunday at 84hs.


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
Jonesy
07 August 2014 08:34:53

According to a Met Office source in the Guardian, Bertha will miss us:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/06/tropical-storm-bertha-britain-caribbean-atlantic

According to the Express it will drown us and blow us away.
You pays your money and makes your choice :-)

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Interesting that 48hrs ago it was classed as a tropical depression as it headed towards us, now it's slightly more South but showing as a tropical storm still.


I think till nearer the time it's still to play for,


http://www.weather.com/weather/hurricanecentral/tracker


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
DEW
  • DEW
  • Advanced Member
07 August 2014 08:44:58

Tomas Sch... was still being uncertain last night on Bertha's track, but this morning's fax charts have bertha centred over London at midday Sunday


http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx


Lots of rain IMO and although windy, not dire in that respect


War does not determine who is right, only who is left - Bertrand Russell

Chichester 12m asl
Polar Low
07 August 2014 08:47:02

 


Does look odd how it tracks nn/e so rapid movement from previous T72 below can see why its hard to nail


http://www.weathercharts.org/ukmomslp.htm#t72




MetO Fax for 12z Sun:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack3.gif


 


Originally Posted by: Arcus 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack2a.gif


Updated fax chart for Sunday at 84hs.


Rob K
07 August 2014 09:33:21
Well we had planned a camping trip this weekend but Bertha has put paid to that.

Of course the Express go crazy with the mention of a "hurricane" but of course as Matty says, if you didn't know different you'd think it was just another wet weekend. And, let's be honest, there haven't been too many of those this summer!
Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Maunder Minimum
07 August 2014 11:07:21


 


Does look odd how it tracks nn/e so rapid movement from previous T72 below can see why its hard to nail


http://www.weathercharts.org/ukmomslp.htm#t72




MetO Fax for 12z Sun:


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack3.gif


 


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/brack2a.gif


Updated fax chart for Sunday at 84hs.


Originally Posted by: Arcus 



The updated fax chart (t+84) has it further south and east than the previous one at t+96.The Meto Office site still maintains at this stage that there is a higher degree of uncertainty than usual. We probably won't be sure of its likely track until this time tomorrow.


New world order coming.
Zubzero
07 August 2014 12:16:40

 


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm/runs/2014080706/nmm-11-81-0.png?07-13


 


widespread inland gusts of 50-60 mph,could be some trees down with them still being in full leaf.

Maunder Minimum
07 August 2014 12:27:31


 


 


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm/runs/2014080706/nmm-11-81-0.png?07-13


 


widespread inland gusts of 50-60 mph,could be some trees down with them still being in full leaf.


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 


If that forecast is accurate. Given the current uncertainty, everything needs to be accompanied by that caveat.


New world order coming.
Gavin P
07 August 2014 13:29:52

Hi all,


Here's today's video update:


Cool And Showery Next Week To Ten Days


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Also has a looking at the track of Ex-Hurricane/Topical Storm Bertha, which will start coming into Hi-Res timeframe from tomorrow.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Matty H
07 August 2014 18:03:24
Even Brian is twatting about "Bertha" as if it's anything other than a low pressure system. Groan.
scarborough whiteout
07 August 2014 18:26:03

Even Brian is twatting about "Bertha" as if it's anything other than a low pressure system. Groan.

Originally Posted by: Matty H 


 


ECM having none of it at the moment too.

Medlock Vale Weather
07 August 2014 18:26:23

JMA still going for a nasty pressure system, with trees in full leaf there would be fallen trees if this pulls off, still a lot to be resolved between now and Sunday so this is by no means nailed on.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2014080712/J66-21.GIF?07-12


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2014080712/J72-21.GIF?07-12


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2014080712/J78-21.GIF?07-12


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/jma/runs/2014080712/J84-21.GIF?07-12


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Sevendust
07 August 2014 20:03:38

The models are often poor in terms of modelling ex-tropical features.


The issues that concern forecasters in this case, apart from forecasting the track, are that like any such feature, it entrains a lot of additional heat and moisture from its former life and southerly origin.


In this respect it isn't a routine low pressure because it has the potential to dump more rain than you might expect from a normal western feature.


The other concern is that whilst it may become a fairly weak low pressure, it is likely to arrive on the southern side of a deep trough as it comes towards Western France and there will be a significant temperature contrast between the southerlies drawn ahead of the feature and the north-westerlies in its wake. Whilst this is an unknown at this point, there is certainly some potential for increasing cyclogenesis at it pulls up towards the UK.


It should be noted that it wouldn't take much wind to cause problems at this time of year.

idj20
07 August 2014 20:31:57


The models are often poor in terms of modelling ex-tropical features.


The issues that concern forecasters in this case, apart from forecasting the track, are that like any such feature, it entrains a lot of additional heat and moisture from its former life and southerly origin.


In this respect it isn't a routine low pressure because it has the potential to dump more rain than you might expect from a normal western feature.


The other concern is that whilst it may become a fairly weak low pressure, it is likely to arrive on the southern side of a deep trough as it comes towards Western France and there will be a significant temperature contrast between the southerlies drawn ahead of the feature and the north-westerlies in its wake. Whilst this is an unknown at this point, there is certainly some potential for increasing cyclogenesis at it pulls up towards the UK.


It should be noted that it wouldn't take much wind to cause problems at this time of year.


Originally Posted by: Sevendust 


That's just it, it's like a sling shot effect as ex-Bertha grabs hold onto that parent low off Scotland. Think of it as like two ballet dancers holding into each other as they piroutette around each other until they eventually become as one.

Can't say that I'm that keen on it but I guess it's something for us amateur forecasters to get our teeth into. And I may get to see an awesome red sky as the leading edge of that system is expected to coincide with the rising sun on Sunday morning so it might be worth my while setting the alarm clock for that.

I've also noticed that tides are going to be of the spring type over the weekend, but I think the whole set up is too small to cause sea swells anyway.


 


Folkestone Harbour. 
07 August 2014 21:06:28

Here are the latest pressure charts for 12z Sunday


GFS has the low at around 988mb in the Irish Sea near Anglesey
http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2014080712/72-515UK.GIF?07-12


NMM has the low much deeper at 982mb slightly further south in the Irish Sea http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/wrfnmm/runs/2014080712/nmmuk-2-72-0.png?07-19


ECM has the low way to the south at 1001mb over the Brest peninsula
http://www.meteociel.com/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2014080712/ECF1-72.GIF?07-0


JMA has the centre further north still near Cumbria at sub 985mb
http://www.meteociel.com/modeles/jma/runs/2014080712/J72-21.GIF?07-12


GEM has a shallow low near the Brest peninsula at 1005mb
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gem/runs/2014080712/gem-0-72.png?12


NAVGEM does not even have a closed circulation low, just a trough of low pressure to the SW
http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/navgem/runs/2014080712/navgem-0-72.png?07-18


UKMO Fax chart has the low in the Channel just NW of Brest at 1001mb
http://www2.wetter3.de/Fax/bracknell+72.gif


So you can see why the BBC forecasts are offering two main forecast tracks for the low as there is a clear split in the models roughly 50/50. Either the depression fails to develop and tracks east across the north of France or through the Channel. Or there is some cyclogenesis and the low develops and swings north-east up the Irish sea.

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