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GIBBY
18 November 2014 08:42:42

HERE IS MY LATEST ANALYSIS FROM THE OUTPUTS OF THE WEATHER COMPUTER PREDICTION MODELS FOR TWO WEEKS FROM 8AM TODAY TUESDAY NOVEMBER 18TH 2014.


NEXT UPDATE WEDNESDAY NOVEMBER 19TH 08:00


THE CURRENT GENERAL SITUATION A light Easterly airflow across the UK will slowly veer SE as a front approaches Western Britain tomorrow.


MODELS-2 WEEK HEADLINE Generally less unsettled for a time with a lot of cloudy but dry weather, perhaps becoming more unsettled and windy again later from the West.


THE JET STREAM ENSEMBLE FORECAST The GFS Jet Stream Ensemble forecast shows a weak and disrupted pattern over Europe as the Jet flow exits the USA, crosses the Atlantic and is diverted both North and South of mainland Europe with the UK lying in the Western periphery of this pattern. Little overall change is shown to this disrupted pattern as far as Europe is concerned.


GFS OPERATIONAL The GFS operational this morning shows a persistent block of High pressure over Eastern Europe with strong ridging towards Scandinavia persisting through much of Week 1 and preventing and major Low pressure from crossing Britain. However, some ingress of this is made into the UK delivering rain to some later in the first week before High pressure builds briefly from the SW with clearer and colder weather for a time ahead of strong winds and rain which evemtually is shown to power through as the High block collapses to the East. At the end of the run a strong WSW flow over the UK bring spells of rain in relatively mild weather for all.


THE GFS PARALLEL RUN The GFS Parallel run is broadly similar to the operational in Week 1 with only small but subtle differences in sequential and specific details before it diverges away from the operational in Week 2. High pressure on this run fails to decline to the East and a Scandinavian High pressure block is shown to develop later. As a result Atlantic Low pressure is diverted to the SW of the UK opening the door to a much colder wedge of air to move West across the UK from Europe.


THE GFS ENSEMBLES The GFS Ensembles lie much closer to the operational camp as the benign pattern of the first week with a little rain at times gives way to a more aggressive and deep Low pressure attack from off the Atlantic later next week. This then delivers spells of rain and very strong winds for all mixed with spells of squally showers and rather colder weather with snow on Northern hills.


UKMO UKMO today shows a trough crossing slowly East over the UK at the weekend with some rain for all before clearer and fresher air crosses the UK under a strong ridge from the SW. Frost and fog could develop for a time before SW winds increase in the NW late in the run heralding a new and stronger push of unsettled and windy weather into the UK next week.


THE FAX CHARTS The Fax Charts show a series of weakening occluded fronts slowly moving into the UK and decaying over the next 4-5 days. A little rain from these is likely in the West especially but a lot of dry and benign weather is shown in a slack SE flow with relatively trouble free temperature levels.


GEM GEM this morning shows the stand off continuing between High pressure to the East and later NE warding off the Atlantic low pressure with a steadily strengthening SE flow delivering rather cloudy weather but a lot of dry weather too apart from a few brushes from Atlantic fronts and resultant rainfall in the far West and SW. Towards the end of the run pressure falls and with Low pressure engaging both from the East and West some rain is likely for all in progressively lower temperatures.


NAVGEM NAVGEM this morning looks a lot like UKMO as it brings a ridge up from the SW over the weekend following a weakening front having previously moved East over the UK. After a little rain from this the weather would clear and become fresher with some frost and fog at night for England and Wales before SW winds and cloud invade from the NW later.


ECM ECM this morning takes the road towards much more unsettled weather in the latter stages of it's run as Low pressure tmbles SE across the UK later bringing wet and windy conditions at times and it would feel colder too with some snow possible on Northern hills. in the meantime we continue with a benign spell of weather under mild SE winds ad a weak cold front crossing East at the weekend with just a little rain for all at some point before a ridge from the SW introduces a change to fresher air and the subsequent aforementioned unsettled and windy weather later.


THE ECM ENSEMBLES The Ensemble run this morning's indicate a trend towards Low pressure gradually becoming more dominant again later next week as Low pressure out to the NW pushes South or SW winds across the UK with troughs delivering occasional rain from troughs in relatively mild conditions.


NOTABLE TREND CHANGES FROM PREVIOUS RUNS There still seems a lot of confusion between the models as we move through the second half of the output with the threat of deep Low pressure near the UK later just holding sway in trend this morning.


MY THOUGHTS There are marked differences still being shown in the second part of this morning's output as models struggle to decide on how to if at all they see the demise of the persistent block of High pressure over Eastern Europe. While this is there the passage of our normal West to East flow of depressions and fronts is thwarted and instead a benign and quiet spell of weather under a SE flow is maintained. However, they do all agree that a front will bring a shift in emphasis away from that High to the East, at least for a time as after the front a ridge of High pressure from the SW brings fresher and cleaner air across from the West perhaps with a night or two when frost and fog patches might develop. It's from that point early next week that differences in evolution emerge with the biased opinion leaning more towards Low pressure moving down over or close to the UK with strong winds and rain for all mixed up with more showery and chilly spells when some snow could fall on northern hills. This theme is supported by the GFS operational and Ensemble run together with the ECM operatational while GEM and to some extent the GFS Parallel run show Low pressure further to the Southwest engaging a colder pool of air from the East which could in theory bring some cold weather across the UK from the East but at this stage temperatures still don't look low enough to produce anything other than cold rain from all but the highest ground in the destabilising airmass though the theme will catch the eye for those lokking for colder weather. The ECM Ensembles which have been very volatile of late shows a sharpening of the trough stretching from a point SW of Iceland down across the UK and as a result of this it means a much more unsettled and potentially windy spell of weather being the most likely evolution likely after week 1 when taking all this morning's output as a whole.


Martin G
Kilmersdon Radstock Bath Somerset



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roger63
18 November 2014 08:42:45


Wrong thread but kinda ties in with the model output - the metoffice have now mentioned the possibility of a pertiod of below average temperature. Also a mention of snow for higher grounds in north.


UK Outlook for Saturday 22 Nov 2014 to Monday 1 Dec 2014:
Western parts of the UK should see some spells of heavy rain and strong winds through the weekend, with the east generally staying drier, although a little rain is likely to spread eastwards at times. The unsettled weather is most likely to continue into next week over western parts with spells of rain spreading in from the Atlantic. Eastern parts will continue to see the best of any drier and brighter weather, however rain is still likely here at times. Temperatures will mostly be around average for the time of year, although they may be a little below average in the east during the start of next week with an increased chance of frost and fog overnight.


UK Outlook for Tuesday 2 Dec 2014 to Tuesday 16 Dec 2014:
The most likely scenario is for a continuation of unsettled and windy weather to affect western parts of the UK. Spells of rain are likely further east too but the best of the dry weather is expected here. Temperatures are generally expected to be around or a little above average for the time of year, although this does not preclude the possibility of a few colder spells which are likely during any quieter periods of weather. There is a chance of some overnight and morning mist or fog in places, and some patchy frost too - this may be more likely across northern areas where there is also a chance of some snow on higher ground.


 


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


This mornings 0h GFS and GFS ENS tilts more towards the medium term METO.A majority of the ENS have HP in control at 144h but by 240h its 60:40 inn favour of Atlantic flow.

Ally Pally Snowman
18 November 2014 09:38:26


Wrong thread but kinda ties in with the model output - the metoffice have now mentioned the possibility of a pertiod of below average temperature. Also a mention of snow for higher grounds in north.


UK Outlook for Saturday 22 Nov 2014 to Monday 1 Dec 2014:
Western parts of the UK should see some spells of heavy rain and strong winds through the weekend, with the east generally staying drier, although a little rain is likely to spread eastwards at times. The unsettled weather is most likely to continue into next week over western parts with spells of rain spreading in from the Atlantic. Eastern parts will continue to see the best of any drier and brighter weather, however rain is still likely here at times. Temperatures will mostly be around average for the time of year, although they may be a little below average in the east during the start of next week with an increased chance of frost and fog overnight.


UK Outlook for Tuesday 2 Dec 2014 to Tuesday 16 Dec 2014:
The most likely scenario is for a continuation of unsettled and windy weather to affect western parts of the UK. Spells of rain are likely further east too but the best of the dry weather is expected here. Temperatures are generally expected to be around or a little above average for the time of year, although this does not preclude the possibility of a few colder spells which are likely during any quieter periods of weather. There is a chance of some overnight and morning mist or fog in places, and some patchy frost too - this may be more likely across northern areas where there is also a chance of some snow on higher ground.


 


Originally Posted by: picturesareme 


Its a start anyway hopefully some more seasonal weather on the way.


 


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
picturesareme
18 November 2014 10:08:33
Take it as it comes is all I can say, that metoffice update to me just seems like standard weather for this time of year for us. Certainly a lot better then last year.
Stormchaser
18 November 2014 10:50:53

Just a heads up that I'm going to be spending most of my time away from the internet from noon today through to Thursday evening, so my analysis will be taking a short break. Probably good for me really 


 


Anyway, interesting to see the phasing of the shortwave with the Atlantic trough dropped again by ECM and GEM. UKMO seems to avoid it, yet still ramps up the jet regardless, flattening the blocking high. A bit concerning- the model has sometimes gone out on a limb before, and results have been mixed... sometimes it turns out to be barking up the wrong tree, sometimes not.


ECM comes very close to giving the Scandi High a big say in things days 7-10, but it all gets a bit messy over there, and there's little clear direction to the jet before a large trough hurtles SE on day 10... on a course for Europe, which is interesting in itself.


GEM is close to GEM out to day 5, then has a stronger Scandi High and disrupts the Atlantic troughs... the perfect combination to get a proper easterly flow established across the UK. A bit of pot luck also plays our way, directing a 'bowling ball' of cold (uppers as low as -12*C) in our direction... just one of countless possible outcomes.


 


Okay, that's it for a while - happy model watching! 


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Saint Snow
18 November 2014 10:54:05

before a large trough hurtles SE on day 10... on a course for Europe, which is interesting in itself.


Originally Posted by: Stormchaser 


 


Absolutely. Incredibly selfish I know, but I always think it's a promising sign for us if we see parts of central Europe under floodwater!



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Gavin P
18 November 2014 12:13:33

Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


Severely cold for America but we remain mild (for now)


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Big contrasts on both sides of the Atlantic again.


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Saint Snow
18 November 2014 12:15:30


Hi all,


Here's today's video update;


Severely cold for America but we remain mild (for now)


http://www.gavsweathervids.com


Big contrasts on both sides of the Atlantic again.


Originally Posted by: Gavin P 


 


It'll be interesting to see how the cold in the US affect the Jet, and whether it ramps up cyclogenesis to the sort of levels seen last winter



Martin
Home: St Helens (26m asl) Work: Manchester (75m asl)
A TWO addict since 14/12/01
"How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? Here lies the whole art of Conservative politics."
Aneurin Bevan
Osprey
18 November 2014 12:34:50


 


 


It'll be interesting to see how the cold in the US affect the Jet, and whether it ramps up cyclogenesis to the sort of levels seen last winter


Originally Posted by: Saint Snow 


 


Sort of feels similar and about a month early


Nobody likes a smartass, especially another smartass...
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Hendon Snowman
18 November 2014 12:52:32


 


 


Sort of feels similar and about a month early


Originally Posted by: Osprey 


 


 


Really I am not so sure, anything could happen, but what about all the other signals?  I don't think any one can say for sure or any certainty

Osprey
18 November 2014 13:03:17


 


 


 


Really I am not so sure, anything could happen, but what about all the other signals?  I don't think any one can say for sure or any certainty


Originally Posted by: Hendon Snowman 


 


Yes I know, that goes without saying but it is "similar" to last year allbeit a month early. Up to the 1st wk or two into December2013 the


weather was okay, then all ell broke loose.


It may not come to the same, as we know we can't always go off previous patterens. but atm the jet stream is doing similar to last winter


but with a few exceptions, no storms on the jet (yet) and the stationary low in the Atlantic driving jet southerly direction though is similar


Nobody likes a smartass, especially another smartass...
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
sriram
18 November 2014 13:04:11
As remote as it seems - looks like a repeat of last winter - severe snow in USA - us on mild side of jet with big cyclogenesis across the Atlantic spawning frequent wind and rain over
the UK - hope that Gavin p can why it is a different setup and hopefully outcome this winter
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
sriram
18 November 2014 13:08:17
As remote as it seems - looks like a repeat of last winter - severe snow in USA - us on mild side of jet with big cyclogenesis across the Atlantic spawning frequent wind and rain over
the UK - hope that Gavin p can why it is a different setup and hopefully outcome this winter
Sriram
Sedgley, West Midlands ( just south of Wolverhampton )
162m ASL
ballamar
18 November 2014 13:38:06
Have to say there is a lot different to last year - if forecasting was as easy as saying US is cold.....
Maunder Minimum
18 November 2014 13:48:16
The Yanks are so greedy for snow and cold - it is our turn this winter, not theirs! ;-)
Seriously though, I always get depressed in the early winter if Stateside is cold, since it usually means we get the mild gunk. Yes, I know it is not invariably the case, but look at last winter when the PV dropped into north America - the cold air spilling into the north Atlantic from America, simply turned the jet up to full blast across the Atlantic and we were on the receiving end of it - there is no chance of a decent NAO setting up in those circumstances.

New world order coming.
Medlock Vale Weather
18 November 2014 14:03:35

The Yanks are so greedy for snow and cold - it is our turn this winter, not theirs! ;-)
Seriously though, I always get depressed in the early winter if Stateside is cold, since it usually means we get the mild gunk. Yes, I know it is not invariably the case, but look at last winter when the PV dropped into north America - the cold air spilling into the north Atlantic from America, simply turned the jet up to full blast across the Atlantic and we were on the receiving end of it - there is no chance of a decent NAO setting up in those circumstances.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


Indeed - the problem we have is that big body of water to our west that so often spoils things. The US has the advantage of being in a massive land mass. Chicago currently has a -22C windchill, no doubt being smack bang in the middle of the continent helps!


 


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Osprey
18 November 2014 14:15:55


 


Indeed - the problem we have is that big body of water to our west that so often spoils things. The US has the advantage of being in a massive land mass. Chicago currently has a -22C windchill, no doubt being smack bang in the middle of the continent helps!


 


Originally Posted by: Medlock Vale Weather 


 


Give it several of million years and we will be further north and west (Well away from Europe. Two birds)


Nobody likes a smartass, especially another smartass...
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
LA2B MeridFlowEuro09
18 November 2014 18:44:46

The GFS and UKMO Models are shifting a little One High after another but moving in way that stays put over Europe and the UK, While Waves of Low Pressure wave up and down changing our weather as they meander around the Bartletty High's even in SE US,West Central USA and West Mid N. Atlantic.


For next 8 days this continues no abating, PV Vortex Low's Norwegian and Circumpolar Arctic Polar Low Vortexe's Waving over them, Cold Central & N USA Canada, Greenland and Iceland and N Russia and N W and Central to NE Siberia and rest of NE Russia seeing Low Pressure bring spells of heavy snow in bands and wintry showers, same goes for Svalbard, Iceland and Finland areas, Europe West Central and N often dominated by Europe Blocking High.


Same Story continues so just handle it.


😀😎✨.


 


 


 


Climate is warming up, Scotland and N Ireland and North England still often gets some Winter frost, ice and snow, November to March, but the SE and South UK including S Central England and Wales, together with the West and North through the year, they sometimes get more rain than London and S SE England, where some longer dry fine spells without much heavy rain is seen every year.

The North Atlantic Sea often gets some much Colder Wintry conditions from November to March Months, and Mild SW and South winds tend to be more frequent over the East and SE of North Atlantic Sea, as the Azores High tends to stay in charge. 

With this warmth and heat, the Central and South UK has become mostly free of snow and frost.
bledur
18 November 2014 18:47:00

Certainly hope it wont be as wet as last winter, wet enough already. Several pro forecasts giving hints of colder weather into December which falls in line with the Tesco check out girl,s predictions ThumpUp

four
  • four
  • Advanced Member
18 November 2014 19:01:37

As remote as it seems - looks like a repeat of last winter - severe snow in USA - us on mild side of jet with big cyclogenesis across the Atlantic spawning frequent wind and rain over
the UK - hope that Gavin p can why it is a different setup and hopefully outcome this winter

Originally Posted by: sriram 



It looks more like blocking high pressure keeping most rain away - especially from the south and east - not at all like last winter.


Brian Gaze
18 November 2014 19:17:17

Rotting block on tonight's ECM eventually leads to this:


ECM 10 day


10 day GFS op and GFSP (see http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx) both crank up the Atlantic too. Pattern reset on the way? 


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
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Russwirral
18 November 2014 19:17:30




It looks more like blocking high pressure keeping most rain away - especially from the south and east - not at all like last winter.


Originally Posted by: four 


 


Agreed, i think this year will be a series of nearly's (cold) as the block becomes anchored to our east....but with the positioning just not in our favour...though this might just move north a bit more towards the end of winter.


 


This falls in line with the METO LRF with milder than average.


Maunder Minimum
18 November 2014 19:28:08


 


 


Agreed, i think this year will be a series of nearly's (cold) as the block becomes anchored to our east....but with the positioning just not in our favour...though this might just move north a bit more towards the end of winter.


 


This falls in line with the METO LRF with milder than average.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Yes, rotten LRF! Since average is mild in our neck of the woods in any case.


New world order coming.
Polar Low
18 November 2014 19:44:34

Some of the gfs members tonight not so sure look early on


look no further than >T120 looks uncertain at the moment


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gefs_cartes.php?code=8&ech=132&mode=0&carte=1


 


 



Rotting block on tonight's ECM eventually leads to this:


ECM 10 day


10 day GFS op and GFSP (see http://www.theweatheroutlook.com/twodata/datmdlout.aspx) both crank up the Atlantic too. Pattern reset on the way? 


Originally Posted by: Brian Gaze 

Medlock Vale Weather
18 November 2014 20:05:51

Looking at the ensembles and most show above average 850 temps. A common sight since last December really, it just goes on & on.  


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Aberdeen_ens.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_Manchester_ens.png


http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/MT8_London_ens.png


 


 


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 

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