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Retron
05 January 2015 16:47:59


 


A salient lesson from many of the historic 'phantom' cold spells.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


You're speaking as if it's a done and dusted deal.


As long as ECM and GEFS show a sizeable cold cluster, as they both have done for a few days now, there's a decent chance of a colder spell - regardless of what the MetO may say!


Note that none of the models are showing wintry nirvana, but highs in the low single figures would at least feel seasonal.


Leysdown, north Kent
redmoons
06 January 2015 10:59:34

Last year was the UK's warmest since records began in 1910, the Met Office has said.


It was also the warmest year in the Central England Temperature series, which dates back to 1659, and is the longest running record of its type.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30683339


Andrew,
Watford
ASL 35m
http://weather.andrewlalchan.co.uk 





Solar Cycles
06 January 2015 12:41:59


Last year was the UK's warmest since records began in 1910, the Met Office has said.


It was also the warmest year in the Central England Temperature series, which dates back to 1659, and is the longest running record of its type.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-30683339


Originally Posted by: redmoons 

An interesting article on this by Judith Curry


http://judithcurry.com/2014/12/09/spinning-the-warmest-year/

Essan
06 January 2015 15:11:03


An interesting article on this by Judith Curry


http://judithcurry.com/2014/12/09/spinning-the-warmest-year/


Originally Posted by: Solar Cycles 



Not really - it was published before all the various records were announced    But in any case, trying to spin the idea that so many records being broken is irrelevant, on the basis that they were only broken by a few tenths of a degree, smacks of desperation (and ignorance!) - and does not change the fact that so many records have been broken.


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Solar Cycles
06 January 2015 16:50:35




Not really - it was published before all the various records were announced    But in any case, trying to spin the idea that so many records being broken is irrelevant, on the basis that they were only broken by a few tenths of a degree, smacks of desperation (and ignorance!) - and does not change the fact that so many records have been broken.


Originally Posted by: Essan 

Read the article and you'll find that it won't be until March before we can pass judgement. 😉

Quantum
06 January 2015 16:52:07

I feel like it might be like when you watch the BBC weather and snow moves in from france, turns to nothing over the English channel and then goes madly white when it hits the south coast. In the same way the cold spell turns to nothing as it hits the low res, and then goes mad when it hits the high res!


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Stu N
07 January 2015 12:19:49

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/550558/Britain-Weather-100mph-Winds-Flooding-Flood-Warnings-Mild-Temperatures

Read that unbelievably stupid headline... 250mph gales!


Edit: Well, credit them at least with correcting the headline to 100mph gales after many commenters pointed out the error. Could still quibble that 100mph is NOT gale force, or indeed that 100mph is an expected highest gust, not mean wind. At least it's now less wrong! 

nsrobins
07 January 2015 17:42:15

Yep MetO singing the same tune they've been singing for some time, and good on them. Unlike some they do not get hoodwinked by the odd series of decent looking OP runs, and even when there is cross-model agreement within 150hrs (which we've rarely had at any time this winter) they still wait for it to verify for a few days.
Put it this way, going from sublime to ridiculous, at one end of the spectrum you have MetO and at the other end The Express. At various positions between that are all the rest of us (and I include myself of course) who speculate and hopecast, etc.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
idj20
08 January 2015 14:21:12

At least we're not the only one getting battered by deep vigorous low pressure systems, even our cousins "down under" seems to be getting it in the neck as well (mind you, isn't it their cyclone season now?): https://twitter.com/bbcweather/status/553192246351527936/photo/1


Folkestone Harbour. 
doctormog
08 January 2015 17:00:54
Trust me Dave I am watching the forecasts, analysis and charts very carefully re. tonight's storm. It looks bad enough here but is potentially very damaging for parts of Scotland one to two hundred miles further north.
Re. The outlook I would have to say that a cooler period is still likely although it will probably be interspersed with mild blips at times as storms systems move through. Snow for the west and northwest but there is potential for some other places at times too. That is not a "ramp" or misinterpretation or straw clutching it is simply my conclusion based on all the data available. I could almost risk mentioning the phrase "cold zonality" - not especiLly useful for many but possibly apt in the coming week or two? (And yes tomorrow looks very mild in more southern parts).
llamedos
08 January 2015 17:24:22

I've always found it amazing that forecast weather during winter months can cause so many frayed tempers in the MOD. That said it's unusual to see high levels of testosterone in this thread. Sometimes members make a post with a clear indication of what they intend to say but don't get the message over and equally sometimes members read a perfectly transparent post and interpret it in a different way.


It doesn't matter who's to blame but IMHO it's unhealthy.........  


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
nsrobins
08 January 2015 17:36:01


I've always found it amazing that forecast weather during winter months can cause so many frayed tempers in the MOD. That said it's unusual to see high levels of testosterone in this thread. Sometimes members make a post with a clear indication of what they intend to say but don't get the message over and equally sometimes members read a perfectly transparent post and interpret it in a different way.


It doesn't matter who's to blame but IMHO it's unhealthy.........  


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


Well I did apologise for being grumpy before my statement


I stand by what I said, and as you know I tend to defend the MetO when others are rather disparaging. I will however criticise them when appropriate. but their longer range forecasts have in my opinion been excellent for weeks now, and when many saw cold and snow in the depths of the NWP they weren't swayed and have proved correct.
As I type the GFS algorithms throw more eye-candy into the far reaches of their runs. Will it be proved correct? I doubt it. Will some grab hold of it and turn it into a portent of frost and snow - probably.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Essan
08 January 2015 19:41:06


I've always found it amazing that forecast weather during winter months can cause so many frayed tempers in the MOD. That said it's unusual to see high levels of testosterone in this thread. Sometimes members make a post with a clear indication of what they intend to say but don't get the message over and equally sometimes members read a perfectly transparent post and interpret it in a different way.


It doesn't matter who's to blame but IMHO it's unhealthy.........  


Originally Posted by: llamedos 



This is what happens when people suffer from ESD (extreme snow deficency) - a serious medical conditions over which sufferers have no control     The only cure is one major snowstorm applied at least every 12 months


Andy
Evesham, Worcs, Albion - 35m asl
Weather & Earth Science News 

Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job - DNA
Gavin P
09 January 2015 13:15:38

At least we haven't had an absolute deluge of a winter like last year. After last nights storm it looks like things could get quite hair-raising later next week though!


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
cultman1
10 January 2015 14:23:41
the Saturday Times Newspaper had an interesting article in their weather column mirroring everything stated on the TWO forums that this winter is turning out to be largely zonal with no sign of any sustained cold anytime soon. I am convinced February will turn out the same as January with the Azores high largely to blame for the sticking weather patterns. It has been in the main so mild in the London area...
tallyho_83
10 January 2015 23:00:44
Just saw the latest weather for the week ahead update by John Hammond on BBC 1: - Is it me or do I see a period of rain/snow heading into the SW on Tuesday night?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/30761499 

Pause video around 01:55secs.

Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


tallyho_83
11 January 2015 00:23:06

Tuesday night into Wednesday - a band of more prolonged Sleet/snow moves across southern England and a weak channel low moves up from the English channel to bring some rain and snow to the South ahead of the main rain band, possibly a covering of wet snow over the Moors? - captured here:


 



 


Sleet and snow showers move into the SW and cross central and southern areas:


 



 


Sleet and snow becoming more persistent!!? 


 



 


 


 


Home Location - Kellands Lane, Okehampton, Devon (200m ASL)
---------------------------------------
Sean Moon
Magical Moon
www.magical-moon.com


Retron
11 January 2015 05:00:12


Tuesday night into Wednesday - a band of more prolonged Sleet/snow moves across southern England


Originally Posted by: tallyho_83 


Shows up nicely on, for example, the Reading automated forecast - haevy snow in the early hours of Wednesday.


Definitely one to keep an eye on, given that GFS was toying with the idea yesterday as well.


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gcpk9yegm#?fcTime=1421193600


(EDIT: tweaked to show light snow now.)


Leysdown, north Kent
Sevendust
11 January 2015 07:16:55


 


Shows up nicely on, for example, the Reading automated forecast - haevy snow in the early hours of Wednesday.


Definitely one to keep an eye on, given that GFS was toying with the idea yesterday as well.


http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gcpk9yegm#?fcTime=1421193600


(EDIT: tweaked to show light snow now.)


Originally Posted by: Retron 


Of course its bloody typical that I am away in Essex that night

Maunder Minimum
11 January 2015 09:22:59

It is an ill wind which blows nobody any good as they say:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11337617/Jet-stream-blasts-BA-plane-across-Atlantic-in-record-time.html


"Concorde may have been retired but a British Airways passenger jet approached supersonic speed this week as it rode a surging jet stream from New York to London.



The Boeing 777-200 jet reached a ground speed of 745mph as it rode winds of more than 200mph across the Atlantic. At ground level, the speed of sound is 761mph.




The happy result was a flight time of just five hours and 16 minutes for BA114, which arrived an hour and half before schedule, according to the tracking website, FlightAware.


..."



New world order coming.
Gavin P
11 January 2015 13:09:04

Winter really getting on now...


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
peeps in west oxon
11 January 2015 13:14:59


It is an ill wind which blows nobody any good as they say:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11337617/Jet-stream-blasts-BA-plane-across-Atlantic-in-record-time.html


"Concorde may have been retired but a British Airways passenger jet approached supersonic speed this week as it rode a surging jet stream from New York to London.



The Boeing 777-200 jet reached a ground speed of 745mph as it rode winds of more than 200mph across the Atlantic. At ground level, the speed of sound is 761mph.




The happy result was a flight time of just five hours and 16 minutes for BA114, which arrived an hour and half before schedule, according to the tracking website, FlightAware.


..."



Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


MM I saw this, nothing new really but interesting all the same.  I wonder how much pressure this would or could put on the structure of an aircraft. (Going so fast I mean). Perhaps the pilots slow them down? I wonder if any current passenger aircraft could actually break the sound barrier with the jet stream behind it?!


West Oxfordshire, 80M ASL
Retron
11 January 2015 13:22:12


It is an ill wind which blows nobody any good as they say:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11337617/Jet-stream-blasts-BA-plane-across-Atlantic-in-record-time.html


"Concorde may have been retired but a British Airways passenger jet approached supersonic speed this week as it rode a surging jet stream from New York to London.



The Boeing 777-200 jet reached a ground speed of 745mph as it rode winds of more than 200mph across the Atlantic. At ground level, the speed of sound is 761mph.




The happy result was a flight time of just five hours and 16 minutes for BA114, which arrived an hour and half before schedule, according to the tracking website, FlightAware.


..."



Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


I love the way a bit of dodgy reporting has popped up in all the papers. It was actually not that special - the ground speed record for a 777-200 is at least 735 knots, well above the speed of sound (and a lot faster than the 647 knots of the plane in the Telegraph report). Yet even at 735 knots the plane itself hadn't gone supersonic in that case - the reason is best summed up in an answer which can be easily Googled. If the media had done this they'd doubtless have realised it's really not that newsworthy - but hey, that wouldn't generate clicks!


"This is analogous to you walking at 2 mph along a walkalater (travelator) that is moving at 2 mph. Your actual movement towards your plane at the gate is pretty fast at 4 mph (2 + 2) but as far as you are concerned, you are still walking at 2 mph!

So even if you were seeing a ground speed of 760 mph on the GPS, the Boeing 777 has never exceeded it structural limits of the plane or its wings it was designed for!"


Side note: if a subsonic plane such as the 777 or 747 actually manages to go supersonic, all sorts of bad things happen.


http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/828072


Someone posted:


"During the seventies UA had a 747 going from HNL to LAX that caught a tailwind that pushed it beyond Mach 1. I've heard this story from a number of long time UA employees including my father who was working for UA at the time so I take it as pretty reliable. I don't know the aircraft or flight number however."


And the reply was:

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!!

If the winds are right ANY plane can go above Mach 1 GROUND SPEED with no damage or even exceeding maxium air speed. The Mandarin 747SP did break the sound barrier due to pilot error, the wing spar was bent and the wings now point at a 7 degree up angle. The plane was for sale and sitting at LAS up until a few months ago, whether it was bought or scrapped I don't know."


Leysdown, north Kent
Maunder Minimum
11 January 2015 13:32:31


 


I love the way a bit of dodgy reporting has popped up in all the papers. It was actually not that special - the ground speed record for a 777-200 is at least 735 knots, well above the speed of sound (and a lot faster than the 647 knots of the plane in the Telegraph report). Yet even at 735 knots the plane itself hadn't gone supersonic in that case - the reason is best summed up in an answer which can be easily Googled. If the media had done this they'd doubtless have realised it's really not that newsworthy - but hey, that wouldn't generate clicks!


"This is analogous to you walking at 2 mph along a walkalater (travelator) that is moving at 2 mph. Your actual movement towards your plane at the gate is pretty fast at 4 mph (2 + 2) but as far as you are concerned, you are still walking at 2 mph!

So even if you were seeing a ground speed of 760 mph on the GPS, the Boeing 777 has never exceeded it structural limits of the plane or its wings it was designed for!"


Side note: if a subsonic plane such as the 777 or 747 actually manages to go supersonic, all sorts of bad things happen.


http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/828072


Someone posted:


"During the seventies UA had a 747 going from HNL to LAX that caught a tailwind that pushed it beyond Mach 1. I've heard this story from a number of long time UA employees including my father who was working for UA at the time so I take it as pretty reliable. I don't know the aircraft or flight number however."


And the reply was:

"THAT DOESN'T COUNT!!!

If the winds are right ANY plane can go above Mach 1 GROUND SPEED with no damage or even exceeding maxium air speed. The Mandarin 747SP did break the sound barrier due to pilot error, the wing spar was bent and the wings now point at a 7 degree up angle. The plane was for sale and sitting at LAS up until a few months ago, whether it was bought or scrapped I don't know."


Originally Posted by: Retron 


What you write may be true, but i think it ignores the significance of the report - by skill, luck or judgement the pilot of this flight managed to set a record for a sub-sonic crossing from New York to London by a passenger jet - this is because the plane was able to stay in the zone with maximum tailwind for most of the flight and thus gained maximum advantage.


New world order coming.

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