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warrenb
15 January 2015 11:56:07


The extended 0z ECM ensembles for London are now available - yesterday's 12z at top, 0z at the bottom.


The only noteably change is in the far reaches of FI, where rather more members than yesterday are in the milder cluster. As a result the mean is dragged upwards a bit.



Originally Posted by: Retron 


 


Actually looking at that, the mean is higher because the nights are slightly warmer. Possible snow showers on an easterly ?


 


Classic cloudy temps in a coldish easterly.


Arbroath 1320
15 January 2015 12:01:16

Another variation of the same overall theme from GFS 6z. A 1 week cold spell at least, with snow around for some and some very cold minima and maxima away from any cloud.


Beyond that anything could happen, with the extremes being the Azores High exerting it's influence again and returning average temperatures to the possibility of a strengthening Scandi High set up with heights lowering to our SW (as per last night's GFS 18z). The 6z is kind of a half-way house; the Azores High stays put but the Scandi High sinks to sit over us before a gradual return to Atlantic weather in deep FI.


Interesting times indeed. 


 


GGTTH
roger63
15 January 2015 12:17:26


Another variation of the same overall theme from GFS 6z. A 1 week cold spell at least, with snow around for some and some very cold minima and maxima away from any cloud.


Beyond that anything could happen, with the extremes being the Azores High exerting it's influence again and returning average temperatures to the possibility of a strengthening Scandi High set up with heights lowering to our SW (as per last night's GFS 18z). The 6z is kind of a half-way house; the Azores High stays put but the Scandi High sinks to sit over us before a gradual return to Atlantic weather in deep FI.


Interesting times indeed. 


 


Originally Posted by: Arbroath 1320 


Half way house is about right. GEFS 06h shows a continuing battle for influence between the Azores and Scandi HP.


At 168h the majority of ENS are Scandi HP or slider low,with mild Atlantic down to 20%.Position of Scandi HP a llittle further west


By 240h its fifty:fifty between Scandi HP influence and the Atlantic train and by 360h 80:20 in favour of the Atlantic.


I've seen Scandi HP's evaporate before so until i see one on a METO fax with one on it I'll not get too excited.

Rob K
15 January 2015 12:18:59

Tweet from Ian Fergusson a short while ago:


 



Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Robertski
15 January 2015 12:27:02


Tweet from Ian Fergusson a short while ago:


 



Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Sounds about right, no particular deep freeze for the southern portion of the UK as it stands on the models today. A marginal week ahead for snow for the south but it could come good.

Quantum
15 January 2015 12:27:51

Snow accumulation reduced for the south today.



From a selfish point of view, this is what I want to be seeing, warmer air across the south means a greater chance of seeing snow in the north from the LP. Anyway some pretty impressive totals still in the offering, although most of the heavy snow cover is over high ground with typically a couple of cms in the south to perhaps 5-10cm in the north at best. I think this is a reasonable representation of the amount of snow that can be expected in the best case, with significantly higher/lower totals locally.


As people have pointed out, don't take these too literally!


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Larry Seinfeld
15 January 2015 12:36:43


Tweet from Ian Fergusson a short while ago:


 



Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


That's what I'm expecting in Torquay. Rain here on the coast with some wintery precipitation inland, colder than usual but never overly cold maybe 3-4c nightime sometimes lower but no freezing weather. A bit of a no-mans-land really, cold but not too cold.


Matty H
15 January 2015 12:43:06


 


 


That's what I'm expecting in Torquay. Rain here on the coast with some wintery precipitation inland, colder than usual but never overly cold maybe 3-4c nightime sometimes lower but no freezing weather. A bit of a no-mans-land really, cold but not too cold.


Originally Posted by: Larry Seinfeld 


Similar for here. Not particularly cold. Temps a couple of degrees below average day and night. Not expecting any snow at all from this setup, but it's already been pointed out it's knife edge, although as things stand right at this moment, it doesn't look snowy for here at all. Further north is another matter. 


Quantum
15 January 2015 12:46:19

Comparison between the EC and UK at 144hr



EC has a much more developed low, a strong occluded front represents the boundary between polar maritime and polar continental air, this is a warm occluded front with more characteristics of a warm front; so any snow is more likely on the leading edge, south of the front it will be still cold and showery, but wintry precipitation restricted to the hills. A feature in the far north threatens scotland, this could give a few snow showers to the far north.


Now compare with the UKMO, the occluded front is weaker and less active, as upper level cold runs over the front it looses strength over time. Precipitation is generally rain, with some hill snow on its leading edge. A weak warm front introduces some moist slightly milder air from the near continent, this would have a lot of low cloud but next to no precipitation on it. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Matty H
15 January 2015 12:51:19

Ian Fergusson's latest tweet firms up on what I posted above. Not really what I would class as a proper cold spell. Not for here anyway. Average temps. 


 


W COUNTRY CONT'D It'll be first rather prolonged cold phase since March '13. Temps rtn to about average gradually, within next ca. 10-15d


RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
15 January 2015 13:02:37

This upcoming spell looks so marginal I am struggling to imagine seeing any significant wintry weather locally out of this. On the bulk of the GEFS the night time minima barely drop below zero at the start of it and rise steadily thereafter. Soil temperatures are high after the mild weather, so if any snow does make it to the ground and manage to settle it's going to be thawing rapidly from above and below.


The fundamental problem is that however good the synoptic setup around the UK there is just no sufficiently cold air within striking distance of the UK to tap into to produce a decent wintry spell.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
moomin75
15 January 2015 13:12:32


This upcoming spell looks so marginal I am struggling to imagine seeing any significant wintry weather locally out of this. On the bulk of the GEFS the night time minima barely drop below zero at the start of it and rise steadily thereafter. Soil temperatures are high after the mild weather, so if any snow does make it to the ground and manage to settle it's going to be thawing rapidly from above and below.


The fundamental problem is that however good the synoptic setup around the UK there is just no sufficiently cold air within striking distance of the UK to tap into to produce a decent wintry spell.


Originally Posted by: RobN 

Good post and couldn't agree more. It's marginal at best for many, and the wrong side of marginal for a lot.


We may get a couple of bites at the cherry, but as we are in mid-January, time tends to start running out (as March 2013 was a once in a 200 year event), so all in all, looks like another winter will pass us by.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Jonesy
15 January 2015 13:17:40


Good post and couldn't agree more. It's marginal at best for many, and the wrong side of marginal for a lot.


We may get a couple of bites at the cherry, but as we are in mid-January, time tends to start running out (as March 2013 was a once in a 200 year event), so all in all, looks like another winter will pass us by.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


Are we leaving out Feb altogether then moomin  BTW I had snow in Feb 2013 


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
Gooner
15 January 2015 13:18:37


 


Are we leaving out Feb altogether then moomin  BTW I had snow in Feb 2013 


Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


Today is near enough the half way point of Winter ..................isnt it?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Jonesy
15 January 2015 13:21:01


 


Today is near enough the half way point of Winter ..................isnt it?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes..and a football match is a game of two halves, you can lose the first half and be trailing but you can always come out fighting in the 2nd half and win that half 


...Sorry for OT I just don't class Summer as running out in Mid-July etc.


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
warrenb
15 January 2015 13:30:29
You know what, we were having the same conversations before the 2010 event, looks marginal, I can see the breakdown, the rest is history.
Brian Gaze
15 January 2015 13:39:30

You know what, we were having the same conversations before the 2010 event, looks marginal, I can see the breakdown, the rest is history.

Originally Posted by: warrenb 


Darren or someone else may correct me, but I think there was more deep cold pooling to our north and east during the cold spells in 2009/10 and Dec 2010 than at least the first half of next week. The 21st (issh)Dec snowfall in 2009 was more marginal in the south but it had been preceded by colder uppers.


Brian Gaze
Berkhamsted
TWO Buzz - get the latest news and views 
"I'm not socialist, I know that. I don't believe in sharing my money." - Gary Numan
Gooner
15 January 2015 13:40:44


 


Yes..and a football match is a game of two halves, you can lose the first half and be trailing but you can always come out fighting in the 2nd half and win that half 


...Sorry for OT I just don't class Summer as running out in Mid-July etc.


Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


I wonder what response I will get when I come in here and post Summer is over on July 15th


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gavin P
15 January 2015 13:41:00

Hi all


Here's today's video update; Next Week's Cold and Snow + Cold February;



JMA going for big blocking in Feb! 


Rural West Northants 120m asl
Short, medium and long range weather forecast videos @ https://www.youtube.com/user/GavsWeatherVids
Retron
15 January 2015 13:41:28


(as March 2013 was a once in a 200 year event), so all in all, looks like another winter will pass us by.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


I know you've got your depressive mood hat on, but that really is pretty amazing considering we're only halfway through winter and we've a cold spell on the way!


March 2013 gave a couple of dustings of snow here, so although it was unusual it wasn't something I'll look fondly on in years to come. The end of February/beginning of March 2005 delivered half a foot of snow here  and it snowed every day for 14 days in a row. That's a good 7 weeks yet in which we can get deep snow which hangs around down here. Of course, by then the sun's heat starts to kick in but as long as you have cold enough air aloft, low enough dewpoints and most importantly frequent top-ups....


In the run-ups to 2009 and 2010 there were plenty of ensemble runs going for -10C at 850 for London, albeit only for short spikes. There have been fewer this time around. Also back then the 850s averaged out at around -7C, whereas this time they're clustering around -5C. That said, as long as dewpoints are low enough snow would be perfectly possible with -5C 850s!


Leysdown, north Kent
Foghorn
15 January 2015 13:41:39
As I see it we are definitely going to get a break from the relentless westerlies. I live east of the Cheviots and they enhance the strength to give us a non stop westerly blast without any frost and the fleeting sleet showers are horizontal. Absolutely anything but westerly will be a bonus and a couple of calm frosty antiicyclonic days would be bliss indeed. Bring it on.....
colin46
15 January 2015 13:41:53


Good post and couldn't agree more. It's marginal at best for many, and the wrong side of marginal for a lot.


We may get a couple of bites at the cherry, but as we are in mid-January, time tends to start running out (as March 2013 was a once in a 200 year event), so all in all, looks like another winter will pass us by.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 

So just a slightly cooler week than average with snow in Scotland and sleet and cold rain everywhere else then?


shine on you crazy diamond
192.104 m / 630.262 feet ASL
Rob K
15 January 2015 13:44:15


We may get a couple of bites at the cherry, but as we are in mid-January, time tends to start running out (as March 2013 was a once in a 200 year event), so all in all, looks like another winter will pass us by.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 



There is a month called February in between January and March on my calendar.


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Tractor Boy
15 January 2015 13:47:37


 I wonder what response I will get when I come in here and post Summer is over on July 15th


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


 


Something like "Gooner, what are you doing in here in summer?"



 


Dave
Farndale, North York Moors
White Meadows
15 January 2015 13:48:26


Ian Fergusson's latest tweet firms up on what I posted above. Not really what I would class as a proper cold spell. Not for here anyway. Average temps. 


 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Average temps?!!  I think not...

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