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llamedos
19 January 2015 17:12:05


http://www.meteociel.fr/ukmo/runs/2015011912/UN144-21.GIF?19-17



Eyes down for the next so called cold spell 


Originally Posted by: Zubzero 

Always nice to look forward to another one indeed, especially while we're in the middle of this one.


I have to applaud our members in being mature enough to recognise that a cold spell doesn't always equate to having widespread snowfall ( a great bonus if it happens). I'm not sure we'd have seen the same behaviour on other forums .........  


"Life with the Lions"

TWO Moderator
Russwirral
19 January 2015 17:18:13
Thats a very snowy FI this time on the GFS. With LP in a zonality formation, but further south - exposing the northern side of the LPs to more of the UK

Whats strikes me this time is how weak the Azores/Atlantic HP seems to go. Which would fall in line with some discussion on here ( i think stemming from Tamara) about its influence backing off... FI rolls with that idea quite nicely.

Would also introduce a snowier trend which has always been lacking these past few weeks,

Will be interesting to see the Ensembles to work out how that factors in with the snow stamps/snow row. 🙂
David M Porter
19 January 2015 17:37:42

Thats a very snowy FI this time on the GFS. With LP in a zonality formation, but further south - exposing the northern side of the LPs to more of the UK

Whats strikes me this time is how weak the Azores/Atlantic HP seems to go. Which would fall in line with some discussion on here ( i think stemming from Tamara) about its influence backing off... FI rolls with that idea quite nicely.

Would also introduce a snowier trend which has always been lacking these past few weeks,

Will be interesting to see the Ensembles to work out how that factors in with the snow stamps/snow row. :)

Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


The FI section of the GFS 12z run also looked rather chilly to me. Were that to verify, I reckon that further snowfall in more northern areas of the UK would be pretty likely.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
soperman
19 January 2015 17:47:28

I cannot see any renewed cold dan sowf for a while with the jet strengthening once again and no sign of any cold block to our East except very late in GFS FI.


 


  

Russwirral
19 January 2015 18:27:02
BBC forecast has improved slightly for MBY if we get enough pivot in that occluded front tomorrow, we - or indeed anyone where that front pivots could be in for a good covering, maybe as much as 6 inches in favoured spots. Going on some of the precip volume forecast by Wed Morning.

unfortunately those areas on the peripheral to that rotation wont get much if anything at all.

Tomorrow really will be very localised by the looks of the charts so far...


HOTandCOLD
19 January 2015 18:34:59

BANK!!  


 


Doubtful, but might be the most snow I see this week.  


 


Snow accu. GFS 0.25 Th 22.01.2015 12 GMT

The Beast from the East
19 January 2015 18:36:10

Pert 15 would be nice


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gens/runs/2015011912/gens-15-1-300.png


 Actually the GEFS wasnt quite the horror show I was expecting


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
sizzle
19 January 2015 18:47:06

fergie latest post on NW -- Return to mobility is firmly expected through/post weekend. Transition period itself remains messy. I can only post non-current versions of certain analysis courtesy of UKMO agreement for explanatory/educational purposes, but previous DECIDER output for entropy shown here largely reflects latest version... example below from weekend shows clearly the lower confidence phase as we switch through blocking to mobility (note how MOGREPS was a tad earlier than EC at that stage), followed by good confidence/low entropy into period thereafter (i.e. little spread of lamb type, with flow diagnostics showing this as cyclonic westerly regime). Latest output v similar albeit a *bit* more uncertain into early Feb. So, we go with the mobile, westerly pattern as the primary likely broadscale outcome for trend period, with colder phases (v similar to much of winter thus far in many respects). 

Maunder Minimum
19 January 2015 20:46:17


Always nice to look forward to another one indeed, especially while we're in the middle of this one.


I have to applaud our members in being mature enough to recognise that a cold spell doesn't always equate to having widespread snowfall ( a great bonus if it happens). I'm not sure we'd have seen the same behaviour on other forums .........  


Originally Posted by: llamedos 


It has still been hugely disappointing compared with what the models were suggesting a week ago. Still time for some last minute upgrades and surprises before it turns mild at the weekend however.


New world order coming.
Zubzero
19 January 2015 21:56:32

Some sleet/snow on the leading and northern edge tomorrow night on the gfs 


http://modeles2.meteociel.fr/modeles_gfs/runs/2015011918/30-779UK.GIF?19-18


be interesting to see tonight's euro4 as the 12z showed the pricip band much further west 


http://expert-images.weatheronline.co.uk/daten/proficharts/en/euro4/2015/01/19/basis12/ukuk/prec/15012103_1912.gif


 


 

ballamar
19 January 2015 22:33:06
18z looks fairly blocked would be amusing if the high held out unlikely but who knows
Fothergill
19 January 2015 22:47:08

ECM mean at day 9. The vortex across Greenland/NE Canada doesn't look like it'll be leaving us anytime soon. Spreads quite low so fairly high confidence on the pattern into the end of Jan it would seem. +NAO with the Azores high still looking strong... we need to get rid of one of these pests I think, they've been with us all winter.


Can someone blast the Azores high up into Greenland?


Zubzero
19 January 2015 22:48:31

18z looks fairly blocked would be amusing if the high held out unlikely but who knows

Originally Posted by: ballamar 


 


For Russia yes  http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015011918/gfsnh-0-96.png?18 


The Atlantic is making a meal of it trying to push in to Europe. Azores high trying to ridge north in the later stages, repeating the pattern we have seen for a month or so now http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015011918/gfsnh-0-186.png?18  


Scotland is the place to be in this type of set up 

Jonesy
19 January 2015 23:06:31

Shall I do the honours?


Fergie on NW few minutes ago..


 


Some similarly colder/more meridional phases also signalled in EC-EPS but crucially, they sit embedded as transient entities in an otherwise strongly mobile pattern, which remains firm in latest EC Monthly (now looking out to mid-Feb), with prevailing story essentially of strong low pressure anomaly to N and scant signal for any high latitude blocking. Now, there is always room for suspicion that a zonal bias may prevail at longer range; nonetheless, the combined cross-model evidence *as it stands* tallies with current thoughts on teleconnectors from UKMO-GGU, who note how:
* current cold phase suspected to be a hybrid result of strong MJO phase 6 and earlier minor sudden stratospheric warming;
* MJO now waning; no further MJO influence expected as a teleconnective player for UK into medium range;
* no or very muted signal for any SSW into medium range, which is interesting, as at odds with typical SSW drivers recently or currently at play (MJO phase 6/easterly QBO/Oct-Nov Eurasian snow cover)
* however, whilst this is recognised as enigmatic, the "significantly reduced" prospect of SSW against average is argued to demonstrate that "...no great significance should be attached to these (above) empirical predictors" (in current situation).

Now, as we all know, pattern change 'surprises' can and do occasionally happen, but we await any *compelling* evidence of such to appear repeatedly and coherently in output. However, for now at least, the above comments summarise the *anticipated* road ahead but I'll try to offer further updates periodically over coming weeks.


 


P.S The toys and prams will be swinging about that's for sure  << added by me and not Fergie 


Medway Towns (Kent)
The Weather will do what it wants, when it wants, no matter what data is thrown at it !
Fothergill
19 January 2015 23:12:02


Shall I do the honours?


Fergie on NW few minutes ago..


 


Some similarly colder/more meridional phases also signalled in EC-EPS but crucially, they sit embedded as transient entities in an otherwise strongly mobile pattern, which remains firm in latest EC Monthly (now looking out to mid-Feb), with prevailing story essentially of strong low pressure anomaly to N and scant signal for any high latitude blocking. Now, there is always room for suspicion that a zonal bias may prevail at longer range; nonetheless, the combined cross-model evidence *as it stands* tallies with current thoughts on teleconnectors from UKMO-GGU, who note how:
* current cold phase suspected to be a hybrid result of strong MJO phase 6 and earlier minor sudden stratospheric warming;
* MJO now waning; no further MJO influence expected as a teleconnective player for UK into medium range;
* no or very muted signal for any SSW into medium range, which is interesting, as at odds with typical SSW drivers recently or currently at play (MJO phase 6/easterly QBO/Oct-Nov Eurasian snow cover)
* however, whilst this is recognised as enigmatic, the "significantly reduced" prospect of SSW against average is argued to demonstrate that "...no great significance should be attached to these (above) empirical predictors" (in current situation).

Now, as we all know, pattern change 'surprises' can and do occasionally happen, but we await any *compelling* evidence of such to appear repeatedly and coherently in output. However, for now at least, the above comments summarise the *anticipated* road ahead but I'll try to offer further updates periodically over coming weeks.


Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


Can't say I'm surprised. Backs up the what the NAEFS has been showing for a while for early Feb... ghastly. Long way off but with Met Office support.


 


Oh well, here's to some nice surprises!

Chiltern Blizzard
19 January 2015 23:12:13


Shall I do the honours?


Fergie on NW few minutes ago..


 


Some similarly colder/more meridional phases also signalled in EC-EPS but crucially, they sit embedded as transient entities in an otherwise strongly mobile pattern, which remains firm in latest EC Monthly (now looking out to mid-Feb), with prevailing story essentially of strong low pressure anomaly to N and scant signal for any high latitude blocking. Now, there is always room for suspicion that a zonal bias may prevail at longer range; nonetheless, the combined cross-model evidence *as it stands* tallies with current thoughts on teleconnectors from UKMO-GGU, who note how:
* current cold phase suspected to be a hybrid result of strong MJO phase 6 and earlier minor sudden stratospheric warming;
* MJO now waning; no further MJO influence expected as a teleconnective player for UK into medium range;
* no or very muted signal for any SSW into medium range, which is interesting, as at odds with typical SSW drivers recently or currently at play (MJO phase 6/easterly QBO/Oct-Nov Eurasian snow cover)
* however, whilst this is recognised as enigmatic, the "significantly reduced" prospect of SSW against average is argued to demonstrate that "...no great significance should be attached to these (above) empirical predictors" (in current situation).

Now, as we all know, pattern change 'surprises' can and do occasionally happen, but we await any *compelling* evidence of such to appear repeatedly and coherently in output. However, for now at least, the above comments summarise the *anticipated* road ahead but I'll try to offer further updates periodically over coming weeks.


Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


He could have saved a lot of time and said all of the above in three words.... "winter is over" (as I write it's -3.1c here)  Seriously though, very informative post from IF, even if it's not what many want to hear!  Will be interesting to see if it pans out as projected.


Rendlesham, Suffolk 20m asl
Matty H
19 January 2015 23:13:21

This is meant to be an observation rather than a criticism, but I find Ian's posts incredibly hard to decipher. It's almost like he's scanned a thesaurus to find the most obscure words for each meaning. I know he reads this forum and has posted occasionally, so if he reads this - Ian, we're not all degree level forecasters. 


John p
19 January 2015 23:14:31
So the SSW theories over on NW are all cobblers too (much talk on their of imminent warmings to finish off the vortex).
Camberley, Surrey
moomin75
19 January 2015 23:20:34
Winter appears dead in the water.
Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Gooner
19 January 2015 23:30:06

Winter appears dead in the water.

Originally Posted by: moomin75 


at a temp at work of 0.3c today and currently -4c tonight and probably not much above freezing tomorrow..................................I guess you are correct.


 


Although you were saying yesterday we were having temps of 5c-7c this week?


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
19 January 2015 23:32:26


Shall I do the honours?


Fergie on NW few minutes ago..


 


Some similarly colder/more meridional phases also signalled in EC-EPS but crucially, they sit embedded as transient entities in an otherwise strongly mobile pattern, which remains firm in latest EC Monthly (now looking out to mid-Feb), with prevailing story essentially of strong low pressure anomaly to N and scant signal for any high latitude blocking. Now, there is always room for suspicion that a zonal bias may prevail at longer range; nonetheless, the combined cross-model evidence *as it stands* tallies with current thoughts on teleconnectors from UKMO-GGU, who note how:
* current cold phase suspected to be a hybrid result of strong MJO phase 6 and earlier minor sudden stratospheric warming;
* MJO now waning; no further MJO influence expected as a teleconnective player for UK into medium range;
* no or very muted signal for any SSW into medium range, which is interesting, as at odds with typical SSW drivers recently or currently at play (MJO phase 6/easterly QBO/Oct-Nov Eurasian snow cover)
* however, whilst this is recognised as enigmatic, the "significantly reduced" prospect of SSW against average is argued to demonstrate that "...no great significance should be attached to these (above) empirical predictors" (in current situation).

Now, as we all know, pattern change 'surprises' can and do occasionally happen, but we await any *compelling* evidence of such to appear repeatedly and coherently in output. However, for now at least, the above comments summarise the *anticipated* road ahead but I'll try to offer further updates periodically over coming weeks.


 


P.S The toys and prams will be swinging about that's for sure  << added by me and not Fergie 


Originally Posted by: Jonesy 


Also from Ian


 


 I don't think those seeking colder conditions need be disheartened. There will inevitably be periods of greater interest.          


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Medlock Vale Weather
19 January 2015 23:36:00

 



 


at a temp at work of 0.3c today and currently -4c tonight and probably not much above freezing tomorrow..................................I guess you are correct.


 


Although you were saying yesterday we were having temps of 5c-7c this week?


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


Yes time to light the BBQ


Alan in Medlock Valley - Oldham's frost hollow. 103 metres above sea level.
What is a frost hollow? http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/reports/wxfacts/Frost-hollow.htm 
Zubzero
19 January 2015 23:38:54

So the SSW theories over on NW are all cobblers too (much talk on their of imminent warmings to finish off the vortex).

Originally Posted by: John p 


My understanding of it is very limited, i'm sure stratospheric warming plays a role in the weather along with many other parts of a wonderful and highly complex weather/climate system we have. 


Even the best experts/super computers have a limited grasp on how it all fit's together.


 


I fear the SSW buzz word will be replaced with yet another catchphrase, that will be the best thing since sliced bread in weather forecasting.


And will be bigged up by people who really have little understanding on how it affects the weather just as a SSW/strat warming is now. 

Gooner
19 January 2015 23:40:46


The control shows what can happen , plenty of time yet for something decent IMO


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Girthmeister
19 January 2015 23:41:05


This is meant to be an observation rather than a criticism, but I find Ian's posts incredibly hard to decipher. It's almost like he's scanned a thesaurus to find the most obscure words for each meaning. I know he reads this forum and has posted occasionally, so if he reads this - Ian, we're not all degree level forecasters. 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


I rather thought the same. I've read it about 6 times now, and I think it says (with all due respect  to Ian F):


Our newly founded MJO is now disappearing


Our old favourite SSW isn't really working either


Combine the two together and we still can't find any snow


Ignore all the above because it's an enigma.


 


Anyway, it was lovely and warm in the sun today. 

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