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Fothergill
20 January 2015 17:12:46

A cool zonality PM influenced flow looks possible but the GFS looks an extreme example. GFS 12z vs ECM ens


GFS



ECM ens mean



Best use the ensembles at that range.

moomin75
20 January 2015 17:14:56


 


Indeed.


I just wish the Azores high would sod off!!


Originally Posted by: Charmhills 

It will sod off......you can guarantee that...........


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


...........in early summer for June to August.


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
nouska
20 January 2015 17:27:11


A cool zonality PM influenced flow looks possible but the GFS looks an extreme example. GFS 12z vs ECM ens


GFS



ECM ens mean



Best use the ensembles at that range.


Originally Posted by: Fothergill 


There is some support from the ECM ensembles regarding a NW flow for that time period - we'll see if it strengthens on subsequent runs.


Source http://www.weerplaza.nl


David M Porter
20 January 2015 17:29:13


It will sod off......you can guarantee that...........


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


...........in early summer for June to August.


Originally Posted by: moomin75 


It didn't last year though, or in 2013.


Back on topic, while the current colder spell looks like ending next weekend, the output at the moment going into the later part of January doesn't look especially mild to me, at least for northern parts of the UK. I certainly wouldn't rule out further snowfall for more northern areas at times from a NW airflow.


Lenzie, Glasgow

"Let us not take ourselves too seriously. None of us has a monopoly on wisdom, and we must always be ready to listen and respect other points of view."- Queen Elizabeth II 1926-2022
JACKO4EVER
20 January 2015 18:09:40
Evening all. Another cool zonality spell on the horizon. Should prove good for Northern Hills if it's snow your after.
In the meantime gradually turning milder from the west.
Brendon Hills Bandit
20 January 2015 18:26:51
With the Azores high being very persistent and scuppering our chances for cold, I've been wondering about it.

First of all, I've read that the Azores high is a semi-permanent feature, which I would imagine is why, on average, we tend to get mild winters here. But why is it a semi-permenant thing????

Is it possible to say what 'creates' the Azores high? Or what would make it go away? Is it caused by warmer than average sea-level temperatures around the Azores Islands area?

Sorry if this is a bit OT but I'm very interested to know what governs the Azores high, if anything - it just seems to be this mysterious, self-governing thing to me.
220m asl, edge of Brendon Hills
Gooner
20 January 2015 18:31:07

Evening all. Another cool zonality spell on the horizon. Should prove good for Northern Hills if it's snow your after.
In the meantime gradually turning milder from the west.

Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


Only briefly as mentioned by D Betts


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
20 January 2015 19:05:32

http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2015012012/ECH0-240.GIF?20-0


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/ecmwf/runs/2015012012/ECH1-240.GIF?20-0


A cold ending to ECM


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Rob K
20 January 2015 19:09:04



Sorry if this is a bit OT but I'm very interested to know what governs the Azores high, if anything - it just seems to be this mysterious, self-governing thing to me.

Originally Posted by: Brendon Hills Bandit 


It's just one part of the subtropical high pressure belt, which drives the jet stream. Caused by air sinking as it moves north from the tropics.


This link refers to the "Bermuda high", which is basically an extension of the Azores High. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/dyk/subtropical-highs


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
JACKO4EVER
20 January 2015 19:19:08


 


Only briefly as mentioned by D Betts


Originally Posted by: Gooner 


quite right Marcus, we should be back to square one before too much longer, alternating periods of milder and cooler interludes as per MetO updates. Nothing too cold or too mild in the pipeline- perhaps average or a tad below would best sum it up in the reliable timeframe. 

squish
20 January 2015 19:29:45
The ECM +240 chart is of some interest.

http://www.wetterzentrale.de/pics/Recm2401.gif 
D.E.W on Dartmoor. 300m asl
Gooner
20 January 2015 19:55:06

Certainly snow showers likely into NW (some feeding further southwards) on Saturday, but luckily the heavier frontal PPN looks to be all entrained within milder 'slice', with WBFL's (attached, 12z UKMO-GM) up at 600-800m+. However, it could yield a significant freezing rain hazard on crossing away from the UK into the continent


From IF on NW


Worth a watch


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
20 January 2015 19:56:11


 


quite right Marcus, we should be back to square one before too much longer, alternating periods of milder and cooler interludes as per MetO updates. Nothing too cold or too mild in the pipeline- perhaps average or a tad below would best sum it up in the reliable timeframe. 


Originally Posted by: JACKO4EVER 


That's very reasonable from you Jas


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


RobN
  • RobN
  • Advanced Member
20 January 2015 20:03:12


 


It's just one part of the subtropical high pressure belt, which drives the jet stream. Caused by air sinking as it moves north from the tropics.


This link refers to the "Bermuda high", which is basically an extension of the Azores High. http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/dyk/subtropical-highs


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


According to the text books I have read the Azores/Bermuda High is supposed to sink south (actually south of the Azores) during some part the winter, taking the PFJ with it and allowing low pressure systems into Iberia and the Med from the west, and thus drawing colder air west on their northern flank. There has been  precious little sign of this supposed behaviour this winter or last. Whether this is part of a long term or even medium term trend it would be too early to speculate, but it certainly seems to be scuppering our chances of experiencing even transient wintry conditions across the bulk of lowland UK so far this winter, and for the whole of the last.


Back to the models, and there is absolutely no sign of any significantly cold air building up west of the Urals that we could tap into even if the Azores High played ball. All we can see is a succession of ridge trough cycles penetrating deep into Europe which gives no chance of any significant cold air build up. The prospects of wintry conditions for lowland Britain as things stand look pretty dismal, no matter how many JFF snowflake charts are posted in the days ahead.


Rob
In the flatlands of South Cambridgeshire 15m ASL.
Gooner
20 January 2015 20:41:09


 


According to the text books I have read the Azores/Bermuda High is supposed to sink south (actually south of the Azores) during some part the winter, taking the PFJ with it and allowing low pressure systems into Iberia and the Med from the west, and thus drawing colder air west on their northern flank. There has been  precious little sign of this supposed behaviour this winter or last. Whether this is part of a long term or even medium term trend it would be too early to speculate, but it certainly seems to be scuppering our chances of experiencing even transient wintry conditions across the bulk of lowland UK so far this winter, and for the whole of the last.


Back to the models, and there is absolutely no sign of any significantly cold air building up west of the Urals that we could tap into even if the Azores High played ball. All we can see is a succession of ridge trough cycles penetrating deep into Europe which gives no chance of any significant cold air build up. The prospects of wintry conditions for lowland Britain as things stand look pretty dismal, no matter how many JFF snowflake charts are posted in the days ahead.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


Wont be any in the next 7 days I'd have thought , so that must be such a relief eh


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Brendon Hills Bandit
20 January 2015 22:15:18


 


According to the text books I have read the Azores/Bermuda High is supposed to sink south (actually south of the Azores) during some part the winter, taking the PFJ with it and allowing low pressure systems into Iberia and the Med from the west, and thus drawing colder air west on their northern flank. There has been  precious little sign of this supposed behaviour this winter or last. Whether this is part of a long term or even medium term trend it would be too early to speculate, but it certainly seems to be scuppering our chances of experiencing even transient wintry conditions across the bulk of lowland UK so far this winter, and for the whole of the last.


Back to the models, and there is absolutely no sign of any significantly cold air building up west of the Urals that we could tap into even if the Azores High played ball. All we can see is a succession of ridge trough cycles penetrating deep into Europe which gives no chance of any significant cold air build up. The prospects of wintry conditions for lowland Britain as things stand look pretty dismal, no matter how many JFF snowflake charts are posted in the days ahead.


Originally Posted by: RobN 


 


Thanks to the two Robs. 


220m asl, edge of Brendon Hills
Gusty
20 January 2015 22:34:32

I'm tired now and just about to throw in the towel for this particular cold blip but before I retire to bed it must be noted that the GFS for 3 successive runs have brought up a spell of snow tomorrow afternoon from the SE with favourable parameters.


1-2cm will look pretty.


Modele GFS - Carte prévisions


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Charmhills
20 January 2015 23:12:20



Nasty from the GFS 18z!


Loughborough, EM.

Knowledge is power, ignorance is weakness.

Duane.
nsrobins
20 January 2015 23:30:21


I'm tired now and just about to throw in the towel for this particular cold blip but before I retire to bed it must be noted that the GFS for 3 successive runs have brought up a spell of snow tomorrow afternoon from the SE with favourable parameters.


1-2cm will look pretty.


 


Originally Posted by: Gusty 


E4 is not seeing it at all Steve and has the SE dry tomorrow evening.
It'll all be over by Friday and we can have a rest from peering at lampposts for a week or so LOL.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Gooner
20 January 2015 23:35:46


The UK is there somewhere from the control, certainly some interest coming up


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gooner
20 January 2015 23:43:23

The ENS are showing a cold zonal look for the start of FEB


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Gusty
20 January 2015 23:56:17


 


E4 is not seeing it at all Steve and has the SE dry tomorrow evening.
It'll all be over by Friday and we can have a rest from peering at lampposts for a week or so LOL.


Originally Posted by: nsrobins 


Thank goodness .


In all seriousness it will be time to recharge the batteries Neil.


There has been an awful lot of effort for very little return. 


Steve - Folkestone, Kent
Current conditions from my Davis Vantage Vue
https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IFOLKE11 
Join Kent Weather on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/stevewall69/ 



Snow Hoper
21 January 2015 07:10:22

Ecm not without interest, especially the 240 chart. Seems to have been a trend within the last few runs on this and the gfs of perhaps having the artic high poking its nose in through Greenland. It'll need watching for sure as i don't believe for a second that winter has finished with us this quickly. Look north then east.


Going to war over religion is like killing each other to see who has the better imaginary friend.


Home : Thorndon, Suffolk.
nsrobins
21 January 2015 07:51:49

The CFS between +650 and +750 also not without interest - but be quick, it'll be gone in a few hours


I'm pleased some of you saw a bit of snow yesterday, but after a few tantalising days output it's faded into a damp mess and as we move into a day's worth of an easterly drift (it might only get to +5 tomorrow here LOL), it's back to the 'cool' zonal pattern that's predominated winter so far.
Still this won't stop most of us from having a peek, regular as clockwork, in the hope of getting some decent cold in before the transition into Spring.


Neil
Fareham, Hampshire 28m ASL (near estuary)
Stormchaser, Member TORRO
Quantum
21 January 2015 08:25:13

It seems like my idea that the atlantic is merely up in the night to go to the toilet might not be that far off, it doesn't stay zonal for long if the ensembles are anything to go by. Seems we have a crack at the true cold air aswell this time. 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.

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