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The Beast from the East
24 January 2015 10:44:28

A few years ago, Brian's servers would be buckling by now!


 


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
doctormog
24 January 2015 10:46:05
Yes this run shows a much colder picture down the line. However a couple of points of caution, firstly it is in FI when the really cold pattern comes in and secondly it is on the somewhat unreliable 06z GFS.
Matty H
24 January 2015 10:48:36


A few years ago, Brian's servers would be buckling by now!


 


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


Indeed. A more sensible and educated theme is definitely prevalent on here compared to the old days when all most saw were blue colours on a chart and instantly got excited. 


The Beast from the East
24 January 2015 10:49:00

brutal cold in North America


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015012406/gfsnh-1-240.png?6


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
The Beast from the East
24 January 2015 10:51:30

http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015012406/gfsnh-1-252.png?6


starts to sink just as we finally tap into the proper stuff


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President
Maunder Minimum
24 January 2015 10:53:11


brutal cold in North America


http://modeles.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/runs/2015012406/gfsnh-1-240.png?6


Originally Posted by: The Beast from the East 


A rare set of charts - cold on both sides of the Atlantic at the same time. Pity they are in deep FI.


New world order coming.
Ally Pally Snowman
24 January 2015 10:58:07

A very nice cold and snowy run from GFS. Also a good strat warming as well.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=10&carte=1



Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Maunder Minimum
24 January 2015 10:59:37


A very nice cold and snowy run from GFS. Also a good strat warming as well.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfse_cartes.php?&ech=240&mode=10&carte=1



Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Explains why the north Atlantic ends up with a -12 850 temperature anomaly - the vortex is split and pushed our way.


 


New world order coming.
Stormchaser
24 January 2015 11:00:07

The past couple of days has seen a great trend to heavily disrupt or even block off the main jet in the 7-10 day range 


GFS seems to be finally getting there on the 06z op after getting close on the 00z, and there were some tasty looking ECM and GEM 00z op runs to wake up to 


 


Interesting that ECM has dropped the distinct area of low pressure crossing the Atlantic days 6-8, instead holding it back on the far side of the North Atlantic from us. This really allows the northerly to become locked in with a strong mid-Atlantic ridge, the cold finally becoming established at low levels right down to the far south by day 9 and persisting day 10 with little sign of much interruption on the following day or two.


GEM does allow that low across, but keeps it very weak, consistent with yesterday's 12z op run.


 


The broad theme is the most encouraging I've seen since those epic GFSP runs in the middle of December last year.


Good to see much stronger support for the better end of the charts this time around, and a trend to improve things further.


It looks like a good example of how a highly amplified pattern can deliver deep cold across the U.S. and a cold spell across the UK simultaneously when the longwave pattern is compact enough - the jet is weak and meandering enough to allow for two sharp troughs and a strong ridge in between instead of just one massive trough across the Atlantic as was the case last winter when the jet was far stronger.


 


Now we just need the pattern to verify with the right positioning for the UK to benefit in terms of cold, snowy conditions nationwide... easier said than done.


Whatever we end up with could stick around for quite some time, as there is a growing signal for the atmosphere to be in a generally low-momentum state for at least a fortnight.


I see the GFS 06z is a big step in the right direction day 9-10 for importing and entrenching that cold air 


If you have any problems or queries relating to TWO you can Email [email protected]

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2023's Homeland Extremes:
T-Max: 30.2°C 9th Sep (...!) | T-Min: -7.1°C 22nd & 23rd Jan | Wettest Day: 25.9mm 2nd Nov | Ice Days: 1 (2nd Dec -1.3°C in freezing fog)
Keep Calm and Forecast On
Ally Pally Snowman
24 January 2015 11:04:22


 


Because as gets proved ad nauseum every single winter - they are absolute garbage. 


Originally Posted by: Matty H 


Yes they are crap no question but it was a good cold run and I'm sure most would see some snow. With a very good UKMO and ecm people should be optimistic about the forthcoming cold spell.


Bishop's Stortford 85m ASL.
Snowedin3
24 January 2015 11:08:47
I think it's the case of 10000 times bitten Always shy for most now lol 😛
Dean Barnes
Finstock, Chipping Norton, Oxfordshire
160m ASL 525 Ft
Quantum
24 January 2015 11:10:51

I just wanted to congratulate the person (cannot recall who it was) who was the first to spot this forthcoming northerly a few days ago (which is now "nailed on") - at the time he was widely ridiculed for picking up on something which most on here disregarded at the time.

Originally Posted by: Maunder Minimum 


I think I spotted it fairly early on, its hard to say though whether its just luck. My impression was that given the position of the jet stream and the LP over Scandinavia a reload was more likely than a complete topple, this was more from my experience of the charts themselves than for any other reason. I posted this stamp sequence two days ago which seems to now be supported by some of the models.


 



I'm glad to see my excitement wasn't in vain, though still a long way to go. What I really want to see is the arctic airmass residing near svalbard move into scandanavia. 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
NickR
24 January 2015 11:11:08


UK wide snow event on Wednesday. Surprised by all the pessimism this morning looks plenty cold enough for snow even in the south.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/precipitations/102h.htm


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


I would be astounded if Eastern and Southern parts saw anything of note from that.


Nick
Durham
[email protected]
kal
24 January 2015 11:13:10

Gavs vid last week stated a huge warming in stratosphere  come Feb.  Maybe this could be what we have been waiting  for since March 2013.

soperman
24 January 2015 11:13:24

People, remember the Gfs upgrade is only upto 256 hrs. At that point it goes lower resolution which based on the old Gfs

Originally Posted by: warrenb 


Had missed that. Tks

nouska
24 January 2015 11:16:08

I agree that the models show a cold spell of some variety but t850s of -4 or -5 at times and unfavourable 850-1000hPa partial thicknesses leave me very cautious.

There may be snow at times but the northerlies that "always deliver snow" nearly always have colder air masses. Perhaps the low pressure allowing for slightly higher upper air temperatures may work in people's favour. However even the precipitation charts I have just looked at show ni snow here in the entire time period you mention. I realise they are not the most reliable (and often miss convective precipitation) but they do give a broad idea of what to expect.

Nudge the t850s down a couple of degree and the partial thickness by a decametre or two and I will be happy.

Originally Posted by: doctormog 


There's a lot of snow forecast for the north in the later stages of the ECM run. Of course thickness and 850s are a lot lower than on the GFS.


ECM snow charts for N Scotland, courtesy IMO - change the time stamp - it's in six hourly increments.


http://brunnur.vedur.is/kort/ecm0125/2015/01/24/00/ecm0125_djup_msl_2t_850t_snow_2015012400_180.jpg

Gooner
24 January 2015 11:19:24


UK wide snow event on Wednesday. Surprised by all the pessimism this morning looks plenty cold enough for snow even in the south.


http://www.meteociel.fr/modeles/gfs/royaume-uni/precipitations/102h.htm


Originally Posted by: Ally Pally Snowman 


Me too , to be honest


Gibbies update on NW is mentioning snow for many


Remember anything after T120 is really Just For Fun



Marcus
Banbury
North Oxfordshire
378 feet A S L


Rob K
24 January 2015 11:22:33


The northerly is nailed on now, and it would have been a perfect set up for the north west, but unfortunately the uppers aren't quite cold enough for widespread snow. Great for the hills again though!


Originally Posted by: Gary L 


Wasn't Quantum talking about "record low thicknesses" from this northerly?


Yateley, NE Hampshire, 73m asl
"But who wants to be foretold the weather? It is bad enough when it comes, without our having the misery of knowing about it beforehand." — Jerome K. Jerome
Quantum
24 January 2015 11:25:27


 


Wasn't Quantum talking about "record low thicknesses" from this northerly?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


Again it was just a potential, I was referring to the unusually southern position of the Arctic airmass, obviously its still quite difficult to tap into.


NASA GEO5 comes closest 



Note the white area over Svalbard.


 


EDIT: also one further point, thickness is never going to be a record low in a northerly. All I meant was that it has the potential to be record low for a northerly, I think the full thickness was lowest at around 504dm in the western isles, and I think this record is the one potentially under threat, not the 498 in SE england during a fridid easterly.


 


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
Russwirral
24 January 2015 11:28:53


 


Wasn't Quantum talking about "record low thicknesses" from this northerly?


Originally Posted by: Rob K 


 


The potential too - due to the northerly source.  The thickness of which was progged to be very very low.  Not sure the currrent whereabouts on that now though.  Scotland would get nailed if it did.


Quantum
24 January 2015 11:34:04


I'm not sure what sort of thickness this would correspond to, my guess is that it would be lower than a -12C easterly feed, because the upper part of the atmosphere will be modified less, I'm sure this is getting on for 510dm.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
moomin75
24 January 2015 11:36:25


 


Me too , to be honest


Gibbies update on NW is mentioning snow for many


Originally Posted by: Gooner 

Lol Marcus. You would be optimistic for snow if a giant earthquake shifted the UK down to the equator and the charts were showing temps of 45 degrees. tongue-out


Witney, Oxfordshire
100m ASL
Russwirral
24 January 2015 11:37:09



I'm not sure what sort of thickness this would correspond to, my guess is that it would be lower than a -12C easterly feed, because the upper part of the atmosphere will be modified less, I'm sure this is getting on for 510dm.


 


Originally Posted by: Quantum 

I would agree - probably where the -12 is licking north of scotland.


 


been many a year since we saw -12s hitting the uk.


Quantum
24 January 2015 11:42:02


I would agree - probably where the -12 is licking north of scotland.


 


been many a year since we saw -12s hitting the uk.


Originally Posted by: Russwirral 


Yeh, and when was the last time it happened in a Northerly? March 2013 and 2010 were both from Scandanavia. I mean given the right situ we can get -20C uppers in the UK but never from the north, the -10C line on that chart is flirting with the south coast! It is pretty impressive.


 


2023/2024 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):
29/11 (-6), 30/11 (-6), 02/12 (-5), 03/12 (-5), 04/12 (-3), 16/01 (-3), 18/01 (-8), 08/02 (-5)

Total: 8 days with snow/sleet falling.

2022/2023 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

18/12 (-1), 06/03 (-6), 08/03 (-8), 09/03 (-6), 10/03 (-8), 11/03 (-5), 14/03 (-6)

Total: 7 days with snow/sleet falling.

2021/2022 Snow days (approx 850hpa temp):

26/11 (-5), 27/11 (-7), 28/11 (-6), 02/12 (-6), 06/01 (-5), 07/01 (-6), 06/02 (-5), 19/02 (-5), 24/02 (-7), 30/03 (-7), 31/03 (-8), 01/04 (-8)
Total: 12 days with snow/sleet falling.
The Beast from the East
24 January 2015 11:43:32

Control run is fantastic


"We have some alternative facts for you"
Kelly-Ann Conway - special adviser to the President

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